Space Wolf Legion

[Grimtooth]

The devil is in the details.

 

 

The Wolf Brothers were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. They were given their own planet and that is where the Wolf Brothers drew their numbers from and what is suspected as being the reason why the Canis Helix did not mesh with them.

 

So it isn't 5000 or whatever number keeps popping up as half that were taken from the Legion to make the Wolf Brothers.

 

This is all in Battle of the Fang.

 

If you then look at A Thousand Sons, there is a 6000 number referenced after the battle has already begun. If we take that number, take into account moderate casualties from Prospero, the 13th being ordered after Magnus, some HH casualties, and some Scourging it becomes easier to see where we get to 2000+ at the Battle of the Fang.

 

 

 

 

And yes, Ultracrap in every thread does get annoying. Agree with Wilhelm wholeheartedly.

[Gree]

The devil is in the details.

 

 

The Wolf Brothers were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. They were given their own planet and that is where the Wolf Brothers drew their numbers from and what is suspected as being the reason why the Canis Helix did not mesh with them.

 

So it isn't 5000 or whatever number keeps popping up as half that were taken from the Legion to make the Wolf Brothers.

 

This is all in Battle of the Fang.

 

 

Nope. They were given half of everything, but it's not stated that they were mostly recruits from the new planet or anything to that matter.

 

When they were given half of everything it's kinda obvious that half the Wolf chapter was split in two. It may have not been 5000 Astartes, but it would have been a sizeable force made up of half the old Wolf Legion. You don't give a minimal size group half a Legion fleet.

 

If you then look at A Thousand Sons, there is a 6000 number referenced after the battle has already begun. If we take that number, take into account moderate casualties from Prospero, the 13th being ordered after Magnus, some HH casualties, and some Scourging it becomes easier to see where we get to 2000+ at the Battle of the Fang.

 

 

 

That number refers to a force of Wolves that Russ was leading on the Pyramid of Photep, nothign on the total size of the Legion. In addition that book was published before we got A D-B retcon on Legion numbers being around 100,000 on average. In addition Prospero Burns greatly implies that the Wolves outnumbered the Thousand Sons by a good degree.

[Grimtooth]

The devil is in the details.

 

 

The Wolf Brothers were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. They were given their own planet and that is where the Wolf Brothers drew their numbers from and what is suspected as being the reason why the Canis Helix did not mesh with them.

 

So it isn't 5000 or whatever number keeps popping up as half that were taken from the Legion to make the Wolf Brothers.

 

This is all in Battle of the Fang.

 

 

Nope. They were given half of everything, but it's not stated that they were mostly recruits from the new planet or anything to that matter.

 

When they were given half of everything it's kinda obvious that half the Wolf chapter was split in two. It may have not been 5000 Astartes, but it would have been a sizeable force made up of half the old Wolf Legion. You don't give a minimal size group half a Legion fleet.

 

If you then look at A Thousand Sons, there is a 6000 number referenced after the battle has already begun. If we take that number, take into account moderate casualties from Prospero, the 13th being ordered after Magnus, some HH casualties, and some Scourging it becomes easier to see where we get to 2000+ at the Battle of the Fang.

 

 

 

That number refers to a force of Wolves that Russ was leading on the Pyramid of Photep, nothign on the total size of the Legion. In addition that book was published before we got A D-B retcon on Legion numbers being around 100,000 on average. In addition Prospero Burns greatly implies that the Wolves outnumbered the Thousand Sons by a good degree.

 

At the beginning of the battle it is mentioned something along the lines of, "Russ and his thousands of Wolves". Thousands. Not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but just thousands.

 

If we even try to retcon Thousand Sons with the new A-D-B numbers, then you have to take into account 70,000 other Wolves being around and about the one city of Tizca on Prospero where the battle was taking place. At no time in the battle are the Wolves forces described as fighting in the thousands or tens of thousands. They are described in the hundreds of fighting and hundreds of fighting. Plus, approximately 10000 Space Wolves is outnumbering 1200 Thousand Sons by a great degree.

 

Furthermore if we then try to retcon the 80k numbers, then end up with not enough Wolves being present to make a 2000 SW chapter at the end of the novel, even with proposed half going to the Wolf Brothers. That would assume in 1000yrs the wolves suffer approximately 70,000 casualties with zero recruitment.

 

If we say that there were 80k Wolves at Prospero, and we say that HALF died there and then HALF died during the Horus Heresy, and then HALF went to the Wolf Brothers, that still leaves 10000 Wolves. So 8000 Wolves died in 1000yrs with zero recruitment? The numbers do not match up unless you accept that an average of 10000 Wolves were at Prospero and the Wolf Brothers only took what is described in Battle of the Fang.

 

Lastly, reread the section of Battle of the Fang where Wyrmdrake is revealing the Tempering. He mentions that the Wolf Brothers were supposed to match the Space Wolves numbers. If it was half the Legion at the time of the split, then the Wolf Brothers would have matched the Space Wolves numbers, not aspire to match.

 

Go ahead and quote the codex where it says that the Space Wolves were only split once to create the Wolf Brothers. So they split, so what. Battle of the Fang tells you how they were split.

[Gree]

At the beginning of the battle it is mentioned something along the lines of, "Russ and his thousands of Wolves". Thousands. Not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but just thousands.

 

That proves nothing as one could hardly expect the entire LEgion to be deployed. And as I said the novel was published before the retcon.

 

If we even try to retcon Thousand Sons with the new A-D-B numbers, then you have to take into account 70,000 other Wolves being around and about the one city of Tizca on Prospero where the battle was taking place. At no time in the battle are the Wolves forces described as fighting in the thousands or tens of thousands. They are described in the hundreds of fighting and hundreds of fighting. Plus, approximately 10000 Space Wolves is outnumbering 1200 Thousand Sons by a great degree.

 

All of which, as I will once again remind you, is a product of McNeill writing before the retcon. I suspect that if he wrote after the retcon we would have had different descriptions.

 

In short, we really can't take the Space Wolf size descriptions as accurate.

 

Furthermore if we then try to retcon the 80k numbers, then end up with not enough Wolves being present to make a 2000 SW chapter at the end of the novel, even with proposed half going to the Wolf Brothers. That would assume in 1000yrs the wolves suffer approximately 70,000 casualties with zero recruitment.

 

No, you make assumptions without knowing the facts. Do you have a comprehensive list of the battles they fought in the Scouring? Or what losses they took during the Alpha Legion's fleet ambush or the actions they took during those thousand years afterwords? Of their recruits rates immidetely post-Heresy?

 

If we say that there were 80k Wolves at Prospero, and we say that HALF died there and then HALF died during the Horus Heresy, and then HALF went to the Wolf Brothers, that still leaves 10000 Wolves.

 

Why would we say that? It could have been more than half or less than half.

 

So 8000 Wolves died in 1000yrs with zero recruitment?

 

No, I expect the Space Wolf numbers to be reduced to 4-5000 Thousand right after the Scouring and be split then.

 

The numbers do not match up unless you accept that an average of 10000 Wolves were at Prospero and the Wolf Brothers only took what is described in Battle of the Fang.

 

No, that's just looking through your assumptions.

 

Lastly, reread the section of Battle of the Fang where Wyrmdrake is revealing the Tempering. He mentions that the Wolf Brothers were supposed to match the Space Wolves numbers. If it was half the Legion at the time of the split, then the Wolf Brothers would have matched the Space Wolves numbers, not aspire to match.

 

Oh, no, I've read that, and I still stand by my point. Wyrmblade speaks of a past tense of what happened then, of what was intendted, of what would have happened when the Legion was split in half.

 

So, no, that does not contridict my point at all.

 

Go ahead and quote the codex where it says that the Space Wolves were only split once to create the Wolf Brothers. So they split, so what. Battle of the Fang tells you how they were split.

 

Yes, it tells us they were split in half. :)

[Grimtooth]

At the beginning of the battle it is mentioned something along the lines of, "Russ and his thousands of Wolves". Thousands. Not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but just thousands.

 

That proves nothing as one could hardly expect the entire LEgion to be deployed. And as I said the novel was published before the retcon.

 

If we even try to retcon Thousand Sons with the new A-D-B numbers, then you have to take into account 70,000 other Wolves being around and about the one city of Tizca on Prospero where the battle was taking place. At no time in the battle are the Wolves forces described as fighting in the thousands or tens of thousands. They are described in the hundreds of fighting and hundreds of fighting. Plus, approximately 10000 Space Wolves is outnumbering 1200 Thousand Sons by a great degree.

 

All of which, as I will once again remind you, is a product of McNeill writing before the retcon. I suspect that if he wrote after the retcon we would have had different descriptions.

 

In short, we really can't take the Space Wolf size descriptions as accurate.

 

Furthermore if we then try to retcon the 80k numbers, then end up with not enough Wolves being present to make a 2000 SW chapter at the end of the novel, even with proposed half going to the Wolf Brothers. That would assume in 1000yrs the wolves suffer approximately 70,000 casualties with zero recruitment.

 

No, you make assumptions without knowing the facts. Do you have a comprehensive list of the battles they fought in the Scouring? Or what losses they took during the Alpha Legion's fleet ambush or the actions they took during those thousand years afterwords? Of their recruits rates immidetely post-Heresy?

 

If we say that there were 80k Wolves at Prospero, and we say that HALF died there and then HALF died during the Horus Heresy, and then HALF went to the Wolf Brothers, that still leaves 10000 Wolves.

 

Why would we say that? It could have been more than half or less than half.

 

So 8000 Wolves died in 1000yrs with zero recruitment?

 

No, I expect the Space Wolf numbers to be reduced to 4-5000 Thousand right after the Scouring and be split then.

 

The numbers do not match up unless you accept that an average of 10000 Wolves were at Prospero and the Wolf Brothers only took what is described in Battle of the Fang.

 

No, that's just looking through your assumptions.

 

Lastly, reread the section of Battle of the Fang where Wyrmdrake is revealing the Tempering. He mentions that the Wolf Brothers were supposed to match the Space Wolves numbers. If it was half the Legion at the time of the split, then the Wolf Brothers would have matched the Space Wolves numbers, not aspire to match.

 

Oh, no, I've read that, and I still stand by my point. Wyrmblade speaks of a past tense of what happened then, of what was intendted, of what would have happened when the Legion was split in half.

 

So, no, that does not contridict my point at all.

 

Go ahead and quote the codex where it says that the Space Wolves were only split once to create the Wolf Brothers. So they split, so what. Battle of the Fang tells you how they were split.

 

Yes, it tells us they were split in half. <_<

 

Keep digging an assumption hole. Seriously, you answer my points with nothing but conjecture with maybe this happened or maybe that happend or so-and-so retconned them to 100k. Your numbers do not match, for either 10k or 100k in the time period that you want them to fit. By all means shows us where the Wolves are said to have lost 75K from Prospero to the Scouring. You are trying to say that the Wolves suffered more casualties then even the Imperial Fists, who fought on Terra. Really?

 

It says they were split. Not split in half, but split. Battle of the Fang gives you details of that split.

[Gree]

Keep digging an assumption hole.

 

Now why would I do that? I'm just operating off of facts. Assumptions are secondary for me at best. I make guesses not assumptions.

 

Seriously, you answer my points with nothing but conjecture with maybe this happened or maybe that happend or so-and-so retconned them to 100k.

 

It's not a ''maybe'' or ''maybe not''. I am simply taking the direct word of an author who has made the facts quite clear on this matter.

 

Your numbers do not match, for either 10k or 100k in the time period that you want them to fit.

 

Un, no, you have no proof that they don't. Sorry.

 

By all means shows us where the Wolves are said to have lost 75K from Prospero to the Scouring.

 

Show us were they are said to be ten thousand strong.

 

You are trying to say that the Wolves suffered more casualties then even the Imperial Fists, who fought on Terra. Really?

 

Not quite. The Fists would have gone through a Scouring too, and the Fists have a larger recruitment base and stabler geneseed.

 

It says they were split. Not split in half, but split. Battle of the Fang gives you details of that split.

 

Nope, they give us some details and implications that they were divded in half. Nothing more and certainly nothing carefully detailed.

[Grimtooth]

Battle of the Fang specifically says they were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. At what point do you see half the Wolves, or half the Marines, or half the Legion, or half of the Great Companies? You don't. You are given exactly what was given to form the Wolf Brothers and it does not include half of the Legion.

 

Wait so you don't know what the Imperial Fists recruitment or casualties are but assume they were balanced enough to create three successors while the Wolves were easily able to create one successor despite your numbers not fitting in any way at all? So there is no point in discussing this with you, as before, because you will hold the Wolves to one standard while not holding others to the same standard. Got it.

[Gree]

Battle of the Fang specifically says they were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. At what point do you see half the Wolves, or half the Marines, or half the Legion, or half of the Great Companies? You don't. You are given exactly what was given to form the Wolf Brothers and it does not include half of the Legion.

 

It's kind of blatently obvious that those things would come along with the package. If they only sent a few Astartes to start a new chapter then they could easily divide many times more if they wanted to create more sucessors. (Which evidently the Wolves did want to do)

 

Wait so you don't know what the Imperial Fists recruitment or casualties are but assume they were balanced enough to create three successors while the Wolves were easily able to create one successor despite your numbers not fitting in any way at all?

 

Well, we know the Fists have more worlds to recruit from than the Wolves, we know they have stabler geneseed and we know that Dorn made an effort to shave off excess Astartes in the Iron Cage.

 

So yeah, that seems reasonable to me.

 

So there is no point in discussing this with you, as before, because you will hold the Wolves to one standard while not holding others to the same standard. Got it.

 

Incorrect. I don't hold the Wolves to a different standard (Unless you are claiming that the Wolves have a larger recruitment base than the Fists or Russ deliberately tried to kill off some of his own men?)

[Grimtooth]

Battle of the Fang specifically says they were given half the fleet, half the armory, and half the priests. At what point do you see half the Wolves, or half the Marines, or half the Legion, or half of the Great Companies? You don't. You are given exactly what was given to form the Wolf Brothers and it does not include half of the Legion.

 

It's kind of blatently obvious that those things would come along with the package. If they only sent a few Astartes to start a new chapter then they could easily divide many times more if they wanted to create more sucessors. (Which evidently the Wolves did want to do)

 

Wait so you don't know what the Imperial Fists recruitment or casualties are but assume they were balanced enough to create three successors while the Wolves were easily able to create one successor despite your numbers not fitting in any way at all?

 

Well, we know the Fists have more worlds to recruit from than the Wolves, we know they have stabler geneseed and we know that Dorn made an effort to shave off excess Astartes in the Iron Cage.

 

So yeah, that seems reasonable to me.

 

So there is no point in discussing this with you, as before, because you will hold the Wolves to one standard while not holding others to the same standard. Got it.

 

Incorrect. I don't hold the Wolves to a different standard (Unless you are claiming that the Wolves have a larger recruitment base than the Fists or Russ deliberately tried to kill off some of his own men?)

 

Actually Russ was one of the ones, including Dorn that did not want to split up their Legions. And it isn't blatantly obvious that half of the Legion went to form the Wolf Brothers. What is blatantly obvious is that half the fellt, half the armory, and half the priests were given over create the Wolf Brothers along with a planet of fire and ice like Fenris to recruit from.

 

How about you actually put up your numbers? 10000/80000 at Prospero to the stated 2000, one thousand years later on Fenris at the end of Battle of the Fang. You have to account for either 78k or 8k in Wolves.

[Gree]

Actually Russ was one of the ones, including Dorn that did not want to split up their Legions.

 

I know, and your point? That does not magically give the Wolves a bigger recruitment base.

 

And it isn't blatantly obvious that half of the Legion went to form the Wolf Brothers. What is blatantly obvious is that half the fellt, half the armory, and half the priests were given over create the Wolf Brothers along with a planet of fire and ice like Fenris to recruit from.

 

They got half of everything, we are told they were divided only once (because the Wolves were appearantly unable to divide any more because of their small Legion size) and we know how Legions splitting into chapters work from the Fists and Ultramarines. It really is quite blatantly obvious.

 

How about you actually put up your numbers? 10000/80000 at Prospero to the stated 2000, one thousand years later on Fenris at the end of Battle of the Fang. You have to account for either 78k or 8k in Wolves.

 

Simple, they died the and recruiment rates were unable to keep up. Actually taking the stated 2000 number is pointless in most circumstances since that was a thousand years after the formation fo the Wolf Brothers and the actual splitting of the Legions.

[Grimtooth]

It defies your point that the Wolves wanted successors. The Tempering was when the Wolves wanted to create successors because what happened to the Wolf Brothers would not happen again if successful resulting in an empire to dwarf the Ultras.

 

How codex chapters decide to divide themselves have absolutely zero relation to how a non-codex chapter divides. Divide only equals half if you follow the codex. Russ never changed to 10 companies. Russ never formed Tactical, Assault, and Devastator squads. The Wolves do not combat squad, the Wolves do not have heavy weapons in their Troops, the Wolves carry have bp?ccw and bolters...., the list goes on and on and now we have proof of something else Russ never did; he never split the Legion in half. He gave half the fleet, half the armory, half the priest, a planet, and people to recruit from. That is it. You cannot base your argument on what the Ultras and Gists did must be what Russ did,

 

Nice conclusion. They died and didn't recruit.

 

/golfclap

[Gree]

It defies your point that the Wolves wanted successors. The Tempering was when the Wolves wanted to create successors because what happened to the Wolf Brothers would not happen again if successful resulting in an empire to dwarf the Ultras.

 

What does the Tempering have to do with this? I was talking about pg 420 were Wyrmblade refers to the Wolf Brothers as the first of what was intended to be many new sucessor chapters. (He uses past tense and in context places it at the time of the splitting of the Legions)

 

How codex chapters decide to divide themselves have absolutely zero relation to how a non-codex chapter divides.

 

Wheter one follows the Codex does not matter at all. From every single example we've seen so far chapters were split as much as possible.

 

He gave half the fleet, half the armory, half the priest, a planet, and people to recruit from. That is it. You cannot base your argument on what the Ultras and Gists did must be what Russ did,

 

It's a good thing that I'm not basing my argument on that. it's a supporting point but hardly my main one.

 

Nice conclusion. They died and didn't recruit.

 

Or rather, the deathrate of a war on an unprecdended scale gutted the Space Wolf Legion and dramatically eclipsed their recruitment rates.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

as much as it pains me to say this, I agree with Gree on this point: I believe the Wolf Legion was split in half, not just the priest, fleet, etc.

 

WLK

[Dinks]

Surely that would be clearly stated in the book then.

 

If the book stated that half the Priests and Fleet were given over to the Wolf Brothers then that is what happened, it sounds very much as though Russ gave them a solid core and it was up to them to start a chapter recruitment from scratch.

[Legatus]

FYI, the "Armies of the Imperium" supplement for the old Space Marine Epic stated that the Space Wolves were reorganised according to the Codex Astartes like the other Chapters, but that Leman Russ soon reverted it back to a different Chapter organisation to better suit his warrior mentality (Armies of the Imperium, p. 11). This old background has to be taken with a grain of salt nowadays, of course, but it can give an idear where the background is coming from. The 2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves was not as specific as the Armies of the Imperium book, but it stated that the Space Wolves were only divided once because they had always been a very small Legion (2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves, p. 9).

[Gree]

Surely that would be clearly stated in the book then.

 

If the book stated that half the Priests and Fleet were given over to the Wolf Brothers then that is what happened, it sounds very much as though Russ gave them a solid core and it was up to them to start a chapter recruitment from scratch.

 

Then they would have been able to divide more if the Wolf Brothers were just a recruitment core, instead the Space Wolf Codex discusses how their size prevented them from dividing more times and they discuss how the Wolves intended for their to be more sucessors (Indicating that they wanted more sucessors, but due to size were unable to recruit more) in Battle of the Fang.

[TennisBall]

Assuming that Great Companies are about 1000, then the Space Wolves legion had at least 13,000 basic marines in it plus however many others crewed tanks and the like. If there were more than 13 Great Companies then there were more than 13000, which flies in the face of the 13 companies recognized by the existing chapter. Change that bit of fluff and you can push out the numbers of Great Companies that existed in the old Legion, heck maybe the Legion consisted of several tribes with each tribe broken up into 13 Companies, it's all conjecture.

 

Why were the Thousand Sons called thus? Were there only a thousand of them? Not likely but we're stuck with the name from an earlier time when the fluff was different. Perhaps Magnus looked into the future and saw the 1000 chapters of the Emperor and thought to himself, these sons of mine will be my thousand, again who knows.

 

What is possible is that the legions lost 90%+ of their numbers. We're talking about the most successful military force that has pushed everything in the galaxy out of its path. Half of it gets infected and turns on the other half, this isn't a battle of ideology or money, it's about survival with each side coming to realise that the other needs to be wiped from existence. That massive military force turns on itself and in a relatively short space of time annihilates itself leaving the survivors to try and rebuild. Much of the infrastructure to rebuild has been destroyed though, key technologies are lost while others are only known by one of the factions that fought. In the meantime it's decided that the marine recruitment process needs to be held up to higher scrutiny, just one of the advantages of having chapter sized organizations - each 1000 marine block now replicates the screening process rather than the one per legion that existed previously. It may be that this process was partly conceived during the heresy which may have prevented the legions from replacing more than a handful of their battle losses.

[Legatus]

Assuming that Great Companies are about 1000, then the Space Wolves legion had at least 13,000 basic marines in it plus however many others crewed tanks and the like. If there were more than 13 Great Companies then there were more than 13000, which flies in the face of the 13 companies recognized by the existing chapter. Change that bit of fluff and you can push out the numbers of Great Companies that existed in the old Legion, heck maybe the Legion consisted of several tribes with each tribe broken up into 13 Companies, it's all conjecture.

13 Great Companies for the Space Wolves Legion? 7 Great Companies for the Salamanders Legion? That fluff was conceived when a Space Marines Legion was about 10,000 warriors strong. The Space Wolves had been described as a smaller Legion, so it would probably have been about 500 warriors per Space Wolves Great Company, while the Salamanders Great Companies could have been 1,000 strong. But now the Legions are retconned to have had 100,000 warriors on average, so now the Great Company numbers make less sense, unless you assume that a Space Wolves Great Company consisted ot 5,000 warriors, and a Salamanders Great Company of 10,000 (!). Just one of those small details Alan Merrett glanced over when he changed the Legion sizes from 10,000 to 100,000.

[TennisBall]

Assuming that Great Companies are about 1000, then the Space Wolves legion had at least 13,000 basic marines in it plus however many others crewed tanks and the like. If there were more than 13 Great Companies then there were more than 13000, which flies in the face of the 13 companies recognized by the existing chapter. Change that bit of fluff and you can push out the numbers of Great Companies that existed in the old Legion, heck maybe the Legion consisted of several tribes with each tribe broken up into 13 Companies, it's all conjecture.

13 Great Companies for the Space Wolves Legion? 7 Great Companies for the Salamanders Legion? That fluff was conceived when a Space Marines Legion was about 10,000 warriors strong. The Space Wolves had been described as a smaller Legion, so it would probably have been about 500 warriors per Space Wolves Great Company, while the Salamanders Great Companies could have been 1,000 strong. But now the Legions are retconned to have had 100,000 warriors on average, so now the Great Company numbers make less sense, unless you assume that a Space Wolves Great Company consisted ot 5,000 warriors, and a Salamanders Great Company of 10,000 (!). Just one of those small details Alan Merrett glanced over when he changed the Legion sizes from 10,000 to 100,000.

 

Hopefully it can be resolved without too much loss of current fluff.

[bjornsval]

What i would like to know about the wolf brothers is. What happened to all the fleet elements they recieved,and what about all the original space wolves that went to the new chapter. SW's dont degenerate becuase they arent on Fenris anymore.so any marine that was sent to the Wolf Brothers would not mutate.Also since the canis helix is the problem and is why they are doing research into the tempering. then the mutations would have been noticed fairly soon.So now you have the wolf Bro's ,who cant recruit.then in a 1000 years there are none left and only those that were created from the new planet are around? Bad Fluff is Bad!

[Grimtooth]

What i would like to know about the wolf brothers is. What happened to all the fleet elements they recieved,and what about all the original space wolves that went to the new chapter. SW's dont degenerate becuase they arent on Fenris anymore.so any marine that was sent to the Wolf Brothers would not mutate.Also since the canis helix is the problem and is why they are doing research into the tempering. then the mutations would have been noticed fairly soon.So now you have the wolf Bro's ,who cant recruit.then in a 1000 years there are none left and only those that were created from the new planet are around? Bad Fluff is Bad!

 

 

Or if you say that half of the Space Wolves went to the Wolf Brothers, what happened? Space Wolves that have traveled the galaxy over, probably fought on Prospero, the HH, and the Great Scouring SUDDENLY become unstable because they were part of the supposed half the Legion that was re-designated as being the Wolf Brothers?

 

A name change forces genetic instability or recruitment from a different planet far from Fenris? Yea, I can totally see how the first one is totally viable. ;)

[TennisBall]

Regarding the Wolf Brothers, if it was impossible to create new wolves without severe mutation, then how is it that the Space Wovles themselves are able to survive? Surely they should long ago have ceased to exist when the same resources available to them were available to the Wolf Brothers?

I can understand that the original recruits of the Legion had the benefit of the Emperor's knowledge to avoid these problems but once the Emperor was gone it was all up to the Wolves themselves so how is it that one group, ostensibly identical to the other, fails whilst the other thrives?

If it is the genetic compatibility of the humans on Fenris then surely the concept of colonizing them on similar planets would have been considered.

[bjornsval]

Regarding the Wolf Brothers, if it was impossible to create new wolves without severe mutation, then how is it that the Space Wovles themselves are able to survive? Surely they should long ago have ceased to exist when the same resources available to them were available to the Wolf Brothers?

I can understand that the original recruits of the Legion had the benefit of the Emperor's knowledge to avoid these problems but once the Emperor was gone it was all up to the Wolves themselves so how is it that one group, ostensibly identical to the other, fails whilst the other thrives?

If it is the genetic compatibility of the humans on Fenris then surely the concept of colonizing them on similar planets would have been considered.

 

LoL. you hit the nail on the head. instead of using the native population from the new planet. Import some fenrisians and have them repopulate a planet. now you can make new space wolves.

[Gree]

What i would like to know about the wolf brothers is. What happened to all the fleet elements they recieved,and what about all the original space wolves that went to the new chapter. SW's dont degenerate becuase they arent on Fenris anymore.so any marine that was sent to the Wolf Brothers would not mutate.Also since the canis helix is the problem and is why they are doing research into the tempering. then the mutations would have been noticed fairly soon.So now you have the wolf Bro's ,who cant recruit.then in a 1000 years there are none left and only those that were created from the new planet are around? Bad Fluff is Bad!

 

 

Or if you say that half of the Space Wolves went to the Wolf Brothers, what happened? Space Wolves that have traveled the galaxy over, probably fought on Prospero, the HH, and the Great Scouring SUDDENLY become unstable because they were part of the supposed half the Legion that was re-designated as being the Wolf Brothers?

 

A name change forces genetic instability or recruitment from a different planet far from Fenris? Yea, I can totally see how the first one is totally viable. :o

 

Why are you claiming that they would suddenly be unstable? it's perfectly plausible the first generation was made up of former Wolves ad then over the course of the millenia the practice of taking new recruits degenerated their geneseed. We don't know for exactly how long the Wolf Brothers lasted or how many generations they went through.

[spacewolf75]

It was essentially said that Magnus invaded the Aett to stop the Tempering because of Wyrmblade's vision of an Empire of Wolves. Wouldn't it follow that the 1K Sons had something to do with the Wolf Brothers' genetic instability?