500 points built!

[Brother_Byhlli]

Hey, all!

 

Just updating with progress on my army. I now have my 500 point list settled and built as well as two additional bolt pistol/power fist models that will eventually be my Sergeants when the list grows big enough. I called for quiet in the Games Workshop store as I put the last shoulder pad onto the last Space Marine and declared myself the loud'n'proud owner of a 500 point army. Delighted to have finished building - now I need to start painting!

 

Also, I just played my first Space Marines game. It was a starter game in my local store against another guy who also didn't have experience of playing, but it was a game nonetheless:

 

Space Marines turn one

 

Horribly, my first turn of shooting saw my flamer template, frag missile template, seven rapid-firing bolters and bolt pistol take exactly one wound off two squads of Boyz. My Dreadnought missed with both his storm bolter and his meltagun and my Terminator Squad moved towards the Ork Warboss and his Nobz, firing their five stormbolters for exactly one more wound. As it happens, I've been planning on using an assault-heavy army and that performance pretty much confirmed it's the best way forward.

 

In combat, my Captain got munched by the Warboss but the Terminator Squad destroyed the entire Nobz Squad, leaving the poor Warboss running like the wind. My Terminators followed up to deny him the chance to regroup.

 

Orks turn one

 

The two units of Boyz who had laughed horribly at my Space Marines' firestorm the previous turn moved up to attack, firing pistols before charging. My first squad went down like a papier mache house in a rainstorm and the Orks consolidated into cover. My second squad took two deaths but stood strong, despite only killing one Ork and losing combat by a point.

 

Three Koptas charged my Dreadnought, firing missile as they came in. Two hits but fortunately they only stunned me. They continued in to combat despite not actually have any weapons that could damage me. Fortunately for them, my rolling horrors continued as I missed with my Dreadnought's fist weapon.

 

The Warboss continued running and made it off the table, heading away to "gets more boyz to stomp da 'umies!"

 

Space Marines turn two

 

I turned my Terminator Squad around and marched off towards the unit of Orkz that had destroyed my combat-squadded Tactical Squad the turn before. I managed to put all five of my Terminators into range for their stormbolters and opened up. Despite them being in cover, I killed four of the eight Orks, but they passed their leadership test.

 

My Dreadnought managed two hits on the Koptas and killed one, meaning I won combat. The flying wussies dashed off their 3d6 and disappeared off the edge of the board, presumably going to join the Warboss in rallying more troops.

 

The last group of Ork Boyz wiped the floor with my three remaining Space Marines, though they lost a couple of Boyz in the process. They consolidated away from my Dreadnought, which meant moving towards my Terminators.

 

Orkz turn two

 

With about nine Boyz left against my five Terminators and Dreadnought, the guy decided just to charge them into combat with the TDA for the heck of it. He ran towards me, used his WAAAAAAAAAGH! and found himself, unfortunately for him, just out of charge range with one unit but just inside charge range with this second unit. His four Boyz came in swinging at my Terminators, incredibly killing two of them. My remaining three put down five instant death wounds and wiped the squad. I consolidated towards the last remaining unit of Boyz.

 

Space Marines turn three

 

My Dreadnought moved to get a view of his last Boyz Squad and my Terminator Squad strode forward, preparing to lay down stormbolter fire and follow up in close combat if necessary. The Dreadnought's stormbolter took one Ork out, though his meltagun missed. Again. My Terminators put down such a withering display of firepower that only one Ork was left standing. He failed his leadership test, turned and fleed a full 11" and off the edge of the table.

 

Conclusions:

 

I rolled horribly. Very horribly. However, I found it interesting that in spite of rolling horribly, I did significantly better in close combat than at range. My feeling is that a Tactical Squad has - at most, with rapid fire - 20 shots on an enemy unit. An Assault Squad gets 32 hits, again at most. It genuinely seems to me that close combat - if you're careful with your units and your targets - provides much better opportunities for damage output.

 

Also, Terminators rule. Massively. I don't know how I could fit them into an army list as mobile as I plan to be, but as of now I'm looking for ways to do it. They may have to wait for my next army list after I finish building up a jump infantry list, but at some point I will be wailing on people's heads with Terminators. They're awesome.

 

All in all, the game today made me a little more confident about the first game I play with my own list, tomorrow, against an Ork horde. A couple of other players have agreed to bring in 500 point lists, too, so we'll play a mini tournament amongst ourselves. I'll keep notes - possibly take pictures! - and report back tomorrow.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Additionally, he's a list for my 500 points:

 

Librarian

-- Jump pack

 

Sanguinary Priest

-- Jump pack

-- Power sword

 

Assault Squad

-- 3 additional Space Marines

-- Meltagun

 

Assault Squad

-- Meltagun

[Demoulius]

hello and welcome to the hobby (and the blood angels, most bad ass of all space marines! you chose well ^_^ )

 

the first game seems like a black reach game? the box set isent horribly balanced im afraid but its a good way to learn the hobby :)

 

terminators are indeed nice however you havent faced any AP1 or AP2 weapon and/or power weapons yet im guessing....those tend to cut them down asap...

 

you can keep them mobile by investing in a stormraven or land raider if you like. both have their merits and both are horribly expensive. you CAN deepstrike your terminators but i wouldnt recommend it...as it just paints an even bigger bullseye over them then normal :)

 

seems like a solid list btw :) blood angels (any space marines really) are hard to make a good balanced list for at 1000 points, left alone 500 pts :P seems your playing to your armies strength allready :) good job :tu:

[Brother_Byhlli]

hello and welcome to the hobby (and the blood angels, most bad ass of all space marines! you chose well ^_^ )

 

Thanks, brother! I've been dotting around the forum for a little while, but it feels good to finally have my wings, so to speak. Nice to have played a game, even if it's just the Black Reach starter game and to have an actual viable army. On to bigger and better things!

 

the first game seems like a black reach game? the box set isent horribly balanced im afraid but its a good way to learn the hobby :)

 

Completely agree. I was trying to work out how I would have taken on the Space Marines if I'd been playing Orkz and there just doesn't seem to be a good way of doing it. The Dreadnought could presumably have been messed up by the Koptas if they'd stayed out of its range and launched missile salvos instead of going in to unwinnable combat, but I don't see a way of taking out the Terminators unless it's just a case of swamping them with attacks from the Boyz. I guess if you could charge the Terminators with the Warboss instead of having him focus attacks on the Captain, he may do some damage. Realistically, though, I reckon those Terminators are going to be pretty much the last unit standing every time.

 

terminators are indeed nice however you havent faced any AP1 or AP2 weapon and/or power weapons yet im guessing....those tend to cut them down asap...

 

you can keep them mobile by investing in a stormraven or land raider if you like. both have their merits and both are horribly expensive. you CAN deepstrike your terminators but i wouldnt recommend it...as it just paints an even bigger bullseye over them then normal :lol:

 

Mhm. Plasma is going in to my list at 750 points on the off-chance I come across heavy infantry or light transports. It would have made a huge difference against the Terminators today.

 

I'm interested in running a Landraider, but again it doesn't fit with my list. I'm considering creating a Blood Angels-themed counts-as Grey Knights Terminator army (that's a complicated sentence: I mean a Grey Knights Terminator army painted red!) once I finish with my jump infantry army. I kinda fancy taking to the field with a shedload of Terminators and AV14 and giggling uncontrollably.

 

seems like a solid list btw :) blood angels (any space marines really) are hard to make a good balanced list for at 1000 points, left alone 500 pts :huh: seems your playing to your armies strength allready :) good job :tu:

 

Thanks! I hope to increase both squads to full ten-man squads at the latest by the 1,000 point list. I'll have to see how many I can squeeze in at 750 once I've got my plasma!

[Quixus]

You may want to consider putting the power weapon on one of the sergeants instead of the priest. The priest is an Independent Charater and can be singled out in close combat. The sergeant can't.

[Brother_Byhlli]

You may want to consider putting the power weapon on one of the sergeants instead of the priest. The priest is an Independent Charater and can be singled out in close combat. The sergeant can't.

 

The Sergeants will be getting power fists very shortly. The 500 points is just a stepping stone to the next size of army. Good call, though - I would normally have done exactly what you recommended, if it wasn't for a long-term game plan!

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Brother_Byhlli]

Hey, guys.

 

Just reporting back on the day's games.

 

I played two 500 point games - one against an Ork horde and the other against an Imperial Guard infantry line.

 

Game One

 

The Orks split into two units of just under 30 Boyz each with a Warboss in one and a Nob with power klaw in the other. I managed to get the jump on the Nob unit with both my Space Marines units, wiping him out in the first turn of combat. Unfortunately, I ignored my original game plan (his two units had to deploy next to each other - I planned to go around the outside and attack one of his units leaving his second unit stranded with 30 Boyz between it and me) and moved my two units up smack in between the two massive Ork units. Despite winning combat and consolidating away from the second big unit, I still got charged by the second unit which annoyingly was the one containing the Warboss. Brilliantly my line held and we stood toe-to-toe and exchanged blows for a few rounds of combat. When the smoke cleared the only model left standing was my Sanguinary Priest. Bad tactics from me cost me the charge on his second unit which, in turn, cost me models I nearly couldn't afford to lose. I also consistently forgot to use my Librarian's Unleash Rage power. I need to get on that. He did, however, suck the Warboss' soul into the Warp with a nice and nasty force weapon strike.

 

It was a tense game that descended into a dice-off. I was fortunate to win. Better tactics on my part would have given me a more comfortable victory.

 

Game Two

 

Playing against the Imperial Guard I had a different tactic to play against. Where the Orks tried to overwhelm me with weight of numbers in close combat ("klose kombat"?), the Imperial Guard took an infantry army and tried to shoot me down before I could get to them. I tried deep-striking close to his line (both my units were kept in reserve) but unfortunately scattered off the board. I rolled on the mishap table and the unit thankfully ended up back in reserve. Deciding against deep-striking one unit in front of a gunline, I ended up deep-striking my second unit behind a building in my table half, away from the nasty sights of the Imperial long-range wepaonry. My second unit came back in on turn three and I attempted to get the charge with my unit that had been waiting behind the building. I missed the charge by a little less than an inch, leaving me open to the fire from two squads, one of which had three plasma guns.

 

I took only two wounds (out of six Space Marines) from the plasma guns and passed the resulting leadership test. My squad that had arrived most recently by deep-strike moved forward to engage the enemy but was just out of range - fortunately they could still fire their bolt pistols. My most advanced unit jumped over the top of the plasma gun-toting Imperial Guard, turned around and multi-charged them and a second command unit. My opponent wasn't sure I was allowed to do this - rule check needed when I get home! - but let me do it, gloating that I was "going to get gubbed". He needs to learn proper respect for Blood Angels Assault Squads. (He's about to....) I won combat with my four Assault Squad Space Marines against his 15 Imperial Guard, including two HQ-type units, the names for which I've forgotten, but his troops stood solid.

 

His firing the next turn was directed entirely at my unengaged unit. I took 9 wounds which went to armour saves. I passed 5 armour saves, leaving 4 Feel No Pain saves. I passed all 4 of them. My opponent was spitting and I now fully appreciate how valuable the FnP Special Rule is (in my first game I failed most of the rolls!). In the combat, he added a further squad of Guardsmen but we still tied for wounds - he managed to kill three of my Space Marines (*sob!*) and I killed three of his Guardsmen. Considering he was attacking me with over twenty Guardsmen - including a Commander and a special Sergeant upgrade - at this point, losing three wasn't too bad.

 

My following turn saw my large unit (7 Space Marines, my Librarian and my Sanguinary Priest) join the combat which by now had one single Space Marine squaring off against the remains of three of his squads. Needless to say the arrival of my full force saw his units entirely butchered. I consolidated towards his remaining two units (one with flamers and the other in a tower with heavy bolter).

 

His final turn, he shot at me with his three flamers and a unit of lasguns. He caused over twenty wounds but my armour saves and Feel No Pain kept all but one of my Marines alive. For some reason he didn't charge, so my following turn I took the Initiative, charged with the benefit of Furious Charge and wiped out his flamer unit. I consolidated towards the tower.

 

By this stage I had lost one Space Marine from my large unit (Librarian, Sanguinary Priest and seven Space Marines) and five Space Marines from my smaller unit (six Space Marines). My opponent directed his heavy bolter fire at the lone Space Marine in an attempt to wipe out at least one of my units, but poor BS, decent armour saves and the wonder of FnP once again kept my boy alive. I assaulted the tower on my last turn and - to his credit - the HQ-type guy in the tower-top survived the assault, failed to cause any wounds (though my Librarian injured himself with a Perils of the Warp roll) and still stood firm despite losing the four-man Guard unit around him. The following turn he survived all the attacks from my Librarian, all the attacks from my Sanguinary Priest and all but one of the attacks from my Space Marine squad. Fortunately that was enough to kill him.

 

First up, sorry for poor writing. My brain's not engaged. I think I get the gist across of what happened, though.

 

Secondly, lessons learned:

 

1. TACTICS. I so very nearly lost my first game because I forgot to actually follow my tactics.
   
2. The Librarian's powers are there to be used. This was my first game EVER using magic. I normally avoid it. I completely forgot about Unleash Rage on all but one or two combat phases. Admittedly, I did suck the Warboss' soul into the Warp (!), but apart from that I more or less ignored the psychic powers I had.
   
3. Feel No Pain is worth a million times its weight in gold. Very useful ability - it kept more of my Space Marines alive than I can remember. It also kept the Sanguinary Priest in the fight against the Orks until the very end.
   
4. Ranged attacks are not the be-all-and-end-all. I'm much happier relying on close combat. My next army expansion will include a little in the way of anti-heavy infantry, but largely speaking I'm focusing on combat. Blood Angels + close combat = much, much, much death.
   
5. Be wary of firing before assaults. I lost at least one charge today by firing before I assaulted and losing the nearest model in the unit I was about to attack. I should have thought about that WAY more carefully.
   
6. Deep-striking can go very wrong! Apart from a few situations, deep-striking a unit of Space Marines into the very middle of an Imperial Guard gunline is a BAD BAD BAD idea. I was fortunate to roll off the board and get put back into reserve. If I'd actually landed the deep-strike, I'd have been reduced to a steamy heapy pile of slag. Glad that didn't happen.
   
7. NEVER underestimate how durable Space Marines are. My Assault Squads got through more ridiculous assaults and survived more focused firepower than anything has a right to.
   

 

Thirdly: plans for my expansion up to 750 points:

 

ASSAULT SQUADS! I'm going to fill up my two squads to full ten-man squads and then see how many more Assault Marines I can fit into the list. These guys are absolutely disgusting.

 

Fourthly: how do I change my signature to read "Blood Angels: 2/0/0"? ^_^

[Glendor]

Seems like you are doing very well. When Demoulius said that it is difficult for space marines to build lists under 1000 he wasn't kidding. We need to be around 1500 before our army can work together completely. Also close combat is great but is not the end-all-be-all of the game. You haven't faced anything yet it seems that you should be afraid to get into combat with so be prepared and do not be so ready to throw your marines into assault with genesteelers incubi or assault terminators to name a few without first weakening them in the shooting phase. Also once you get more used to deep striking it isn't so bad. Many people play their whole armies deep striking and while there are inherent risks there are ways of mitigating them.

 

At least you chose the right chapter if you are a fan of close combat!

 

To get the w/d/l into your sig go to My Controls in the upper right hand corner. Then look on the left side for a bunch of options and choose signature.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Seems like you are doing very well. When Demoulius said that it is difficult for space marines to build lists under 1000 he wasn't kidding. We need to be around 1500 before our army can work together completely. Also close combat is great but is not the end-all-be-all of the game. You haven't faced anything yet it seems that you should be afraid to get into combat with so be prepared and do not be so ready to throw your marines into assault with genesteelers incubi or assault terminators to name a few without first weakening them in the shooting phase. Also once you get more used to deep striking it isn't so bad. Many people play their whole armies deep striking and while there are inherent risks there are ways of mitigating them.

 

Some good advice there!

 

I was told today by a very confident Guard player that I was about to get gubbed in close combat, but I was reasonably confident I could carry the combat even against three of his squads. I'm aware that there are units out there I don't want to meet in close combat and at 500 points I sadly have no way to deal with them. I do, however, plan on putting plasma into my list just as soon as I can in order to hopefully mitigate some of the more scary combats I might find myself contemplating!!

 

At least you chose the right chapter if you are a fan of close combat!

 

PUT THEM TO THE SWORD!!

 

To get the w/d/l into your sig go to My Controls in the upper right hand corner. Then look on the left side for a bunch of options and choose signature.

 

Thanks! I could probably have worked it out with a bit of searching, but it's nice to get the shortcut. I was also kinda trying to plug the fact that I'm 100% with my little fledgling army. Haha!

 

I should add that the Ork player I played against won the 500-point tournament in our local store on Saturday before I tabled him today. Also, the Imperial Guard player came along after hearing me chirping at another Guard player yesterday (I play ice-hockey - chirping's in my nature!). He's an experienced player and also beat the Orks, though - like me - was left with a single model on the table at the end of the game. Not easy games by any stretch!

[Drachnon]

Be careful with plasma guns in assault squads. Sadly you can't fire the plasma and charge (rapid fire weapon). I'm currently building a plasma squad using 4 plasma guns in a honour guard so I don't have to worry as much about the overheat and charging.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Be careful with plasma guns in assault squads. Sadly you can't fire the plasma and charge (rapid fire weapon). I'm currently building a plasma squad using 4 plasma guns in a honour guard so I don't have to worry as much about the overheat and charging.

 

That's my exact plan: a four-gun plasma Honour Guard. I won't be putting plasma anywhere near my Space Marines other than that.

[Demoulius]

glad to see you got some more games on

 

firstly i would advice against giving the PW to the sargeant. sure the priest can be singled out but he is WS5 meaning hes more likely to hit with his attacks. later on you can give your sargeants PF's anyway and since you are just starting with the hobby i think its best to keep your model count as low as possible for the time beeing...

 

multi charge is most defenitly a valid tactic but looking it up yourself can be good. you never know when someone questions the valadity of it so i leave that for yourself to find in the rules ;)

 

the fact that the guardsmen charged in is abit suprising to me. he probably wanted to drown you in wounds (which granted, 25 against 6 is certainly a valid tactic :lol: ) but it left the guardsmen in a vunerable posistion....

 

the hq units you mention are most likely command squads and they can have a huge impact in small games (also can have big impacts in huge games but its less likely to happen...) they can make squads with lasguns (S3 AP-) fire 1 more shot then they would normally be allowed to so firing 2 shots at max (24 inches) range or 3 shots at 12 inches. while the weapon itself is only S3 sheer weight of fire can spell disaster to squads.

 

theres a difference between the hq version and the troops version but i think its unlikely you faced an hq version. those can make troops with heavy weapons reroll hits against MC's or vehicles and/or make someone reroll succesfull cover saves. they can also make units that are normally unable to do so regroup which in itself has its merits

 

the officers can specialy dangerous when you only got 6 and 7 man squads and a full squad of 10 fires 30 shots at you (within 12 inches) he would be on avarage hitting with 15 and wounding with 5. now that doesent sound so bad until you renember this is a game thats played with dice.... ive seen squads score wounds with every hit, which resulted into something that aint pretty -_- generally its better to be safe then sorry with lasguns and the officers do just that, make their troops fire harder

 

that said your very lucky he only killed 2 when he had 3 plasmaguns :D by the sound of it that troop was a veteran squad (AFAIK the only troop that can take 3 special weapons in a guard army) or his command squad (also troop) they would have had BS4 over BS3 making it even better that you survived the shooting :) against guard armies (without armour) its best to charge in asap and weather the wounds (like you ended up doing) may i ask what 2nd power you wields you wield for the librarian because i see no mention of it? id like to advice shield of sanguinius (or SoS) as its ideally used with unleash rage (UR) SoS can only be used in his turn when he fires dangerous weapons (plasmaguns for example) at you and you are in the open. a 5+ save may sound trivial but trust me, it can save marines when you need it the most!

 

that said im glad you see the merit in FnP :) its made more then a few of my opponents cynical about killing with anything other then powerweapons and ive faced it plenty of times myself to know how powerfull it can be! it doesent take long for the priest to earn back his points (save 5 assault marines and hes done with his current wargear) and always make sure he is the last to take wounds when it comes to wound allocation ;)

 

concerning the 750 list, maybe the following is to your liking, no plasma but aside from that its very solid:

liby with jump pack -125 pts, SoS and UR

10 man assualt squad with 2 melta and a PF

10 man assault squad with 1 melta, 1 flamer and PF

priest with JP and PW

speeder with multi-melta and heavy flamer

 

thats my own list, 750 pts on the dot. you can attached either character to an assault squad (or both if you please) so long as you keep the SP within at least 6 inches of a member of the 2nd squad both benefit from his FNP bubble! the speeder is an allrounder, able to tackle vehicles/MC's (popping 1 wound at a time :rolleyes: ) or infantry. its armour is insignificant though so keep it out of harms way until it can do some damage...

 

lengthy post, sorry bout that. hope i was of some help somehow!

[Brother_Byhlli]

glad to see you got some more games on

 

Hey! Thanks for the lengthy reply - there's a lot of handy information in here!

 

firstly i would advice against giving the PW to the sargeant. sure the priest can be singled out but he is WS5 meaning hes more likely to hit with his attacks. later on you can give your sargeants PF's anyway and since you are just starting with the hobby i think its best to keep your model count as low as possible for the time beeing...

 

Yup. As I said earlier, I didn't put the power weapon on the Sergeant because my long-game has the Sergeants with power fists. Completely agree with this.

 

multi charge is most defenitly a valid tactic but looking it up yourself can be good. you never know when someone questions the valadity of it so i leave that for yourself to find in the rules ;)

 

Thanks for the reminder! I completely forgot to check the rule book. (Found it: page 34., Assault Multiple Enemy Units.) Turns out I was entirely right with my move. Useful to know. Being able to tie up multiple units in combat is absolutely crucial to success with this list. If I'd charge a single unit, I'd have wiped it out or driven it off and left myself exposed to incoming fire in the subsequent turn. Very nice to know that I can avoid that by charging into multiple combats.

 

the fact that the guardsmen charged in is abit suprising to me. he probably wanted to drown you in wounds (which granted, 25 against 6 is certainly a valid tactic :lol: ) but it left the guardsmen in a vunerable posistion....

 

I'd already lost two to plasma shooting by this point, so my Assault Squad only had four men in it. Honestly, though, I wasn't hugely worried - I appreciate how dangerous dice can be, but I had just come from playing an Ork army where I got charged by a 27-strong unit of Boyz with a Warboss and I lost maybe two models. Space Marines whittle down the odds like nothing I've seen. That said, I do appreciate it could have gone foully wrong!

 

the hq units you mention are most likely command squads and they can have a huge impact in small games (also can have big impacts in huge games but its less likely to happen...) they can make squads with lasguns (S3 AP-) fire 1 more shot then they would normally be allowed to so firing 2 shots at max (24 inches) range or 3 shots at 12 inches. while the weapon itself is only S3 sheer weight of fire can spell disaster to squads.

 

Ok, the extra lasgun shots sounds familiar. They were also calling orders around the board, though I haven't quite worked out what that does yet! The weight of numbers can be dangerous but again, I have full faith in my power armour! Even when I was rolling horribly (between me and the Guard player, three seperate times in just one game we rolled three 1s on three dice. Who'd have thought?!) I had faith that my boys would survive and fight on. And they did.

 

theres a difference between the hq version and the troops version but i think its unlikely you faced an hq version. those can make troops with heavy weapons reroll hits against MC's or vehicles and/or make someone reroll succesfull cover saves. they can also make units that are normally unable to do so regroup which in itself has its merits

 

the officers can specialy dangerous when you only got 6 and 7 man squads and a full squad of 10 fires 30 shots at you (within 12 inches) he would be on avarage hitting with 15 and wounding with 5. now that doesent sound so bad until you renember this is a game thats played with dice.... ive seen squads score wounds with every hit, which resulted into something that aint pretty -_- generally its better to be safe then sorry with lasguns and the officers do just that, make their troops fire harder

 

Yup. From the sounds of it, it wasn't an HQ. The guy in the Command Squad did have something like four attacks and three wounds, though. He was tough to bring down until I sicked my Librarian on him!

 

Also remember that your example of 30 shots that causes an average of 5 wounds gets armour saves which bring your losses down to less than two on average which, combined with Feel No Pain means in a round of shooting, on average, you lose less than one Space Marine.

 

that said your very lucky he only killed 2 when he had 3 plasmaguns :D by the sound of it that troop was a veteran squad (AFAIK the only troop that can take 3 special weapons in a guard army) or his command squad (also troop) they would have had BS4 over BS3 making it even better that you survived the shooting ;) against guard armies (without armour) its best to charge in asap and weather the wounds (like you ended up doing) may i ask what 2nd power you wields you wield for the librarian because i see no mention of it? id like to advice shield of sanguinius (or SoS) as its ideally used with unleash rage (UR) SoS can only be used in his turn when he fires dangerous weapons (plasmaguns for example) at you and you are in the open. a 5+ save may sound trivial but trust me, it can save marines when you need it the most!

 

I took The Blood Lance as my second spell, genuinely by opening the book and pointing at a random spell. I had looked through all spells and hadn't seen a use for them as I had thought cover saves could only be used instead of armour saves and the Space Marines' armour save is better than 5+. However, I appreciate now that a 5+ cover save is still valid against plasma or melta attacks, where armour isn't. So that's a massive bonus to the army in terms of survivability. I'll be taking Shield of Sanguinius in my games from now on, unless I see an opportunity to better use one of the other spells.

 

that said im glad you see the merit in FnP :) its made more then a few of my opponents cynical about killing with anything other then powerweapons and ive faced it plenty of times myself to know how powerfull it can be! it doesent take long for the priest to earn back his points (save 5 assault marines and hes done with his current wargear) and always make sure he is the last to take wounds when it comes to wound allocation ;)

 

Yup, I worked out that wound allocation trick early on. Fortunately the Priest passed all his saves (relying on Feel No Pain a few times!) but he also saved a good number of the Assault Squad. I hadn't quite looked at it as him only needing to save five Space Marines to make his points back. It's a good point.

 

concerning the 750 list, maybe the following is to your liking, no plasma but aside from that its very solid:

liby with jump pack -125 pts, SoS and UR

10 man assualt squad with 2 melta and a PF

10 man assault squad with 1 melta, 1 flamer and PF

priest with JP and PW

speeder with multi-melta and heavy flamer

 

thats my own list, 750 pts on the dot. you can attached either character to an assault squad (or both if you please) so long as you keep the SP within at least 6 inches of a member of the 2nd squad both benefit from his FNP bubble! the speeder is an allrounder, able to tackle vehicles/MC's (popping 1 wound at a time ;) ) or infantry. its armour is insignificant though so keep it out of harms way until it can do some damage...

 

It's an interesting list, though I don't entirely agree with mixing your melta and flamer in the same squad. I was trying to avoid vehicles entirely (I have issues with armour values. I see too much melta to be confident taking mech - and I've seen too many tanks get completely obliterated hugely quickly by an attack that otherwise would be limited to a maximum of one Space Marine per turn) so I won't be going the route of using the Land Speeder. I'm thinking something like this:

 

Librarian

-- Jump pack

 

Sanguinary Priest

-- Jump pack

-- Power sword

 

Assault Squad

-- 5 additional Space Marines

-- 2 Meltaguns

-- Power fist

 

Assault Squad

-- Meltagun

-- Power fist

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad

-- Jump packs

 

The Vanguard Veteran Squad are there purely to tie up one or two long-range fire bases in the opponent's deployment zone. Experience has shown me that my boys can dominate the mid-table if they're used properly. Three meltaguns and two power fists can make reasonably short work of mech and MCs, while I trust my Assault Squads to do the business against almost anything else with careful deployment. Hey, it may work, it may not - but apart from anything, it's another step up that puts a new type of unit at my disposal with the introduction of the Heroic Intervention Special Rule.

 

lengthy post, sorry bout that. hope i was of some help somehow!

 

Hah! I enjoyed the long post. It was informative and interesting to read. It showed that you have an interest in the game and an interest in helping out on the forums and that's very much appreciated! I tend to give as good as I get, though, so hopefully you're ok to slog through my replies!

[Mr.darkness]

Looks like your doing good so far, keep it up.

 

Im just posting for a comment on your army list.personally don't like to have only one piece of armour, even at 750 pts. My suggestion would be

Libby, shield, UR and JP

5 honour guard, 4 plasma guns, jump packs.

10 assault marines, 2 melta , PF

5 assault marines, flamer, PF

 

You still have almost the same amount of bodies, the priest who Now can't be singled out, and plasma shots for any light vehicles and heavy infantry that your melta doesn't have the mass of fire that you need.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Looks like your doing good so far, keep it up.

 

Thanks, buddy! With the help of battle brothers on this site like yourself, hopefully I can keep that win ratio positive!

 

Im just posting for a comment on your army list.personally don't like to have only one piece of armour, even at 750 pts. My suggestion would be

Libby, shield, UR and JP

5 honour guard, 4 plasma guns, jump packs.

10 assault marines, 2 melta , PF

5 assault marines, flamer, PF

 

You still have almost the same amount of bodies, the priest who Now can't be singled out, and plasma shots for any light vehicles and heavy infantry that your melta doesn't have the mass of fire that you need.

 

Fantastic feedback. If I could give you thumbs-up, I would.

 

That's an exceptionally interesting list and I'm considering it very, very carefully. I was split between the Honour Guard and the Vanguard Veterans but in the end I couldn't see how to put the Honour Guard in the list with full plasma. Absolute genius to drop the Sanguinary Priest. I have no idea how I didn't see that, but I love it.

 

You also have thirty-five points spare: in order, your units are 125, 225, 235 and 130 which totals 715. Drop the flamer and power fist from the small squad and you can add three more Space Marines and a third melta. I prefer that to the flamer and the power fist - I think the three Space Marines provide more wounds than the flamer, which will realistically only get one shot before combat. The extra bodies all provide bolt pistol shots and then three attacks each in close combat resolved at Initiative 5 and Strength 5 with Furious Charge.

 

List:

 

Librarian

-- Jump pack

 

Honour Guard

-- Jump packs

-- 4 Plasma guns

 

Assault Squad

-- 5 additional Space Marines

-- 2 Meltaguns

-- Power fist

 

Assault Squad

-- 3 additional Space Marines

-- Meltagun

 

Total: 749 points

 

What do you think?

[Demoulius]

Brother_Byhlli, i mention dice alot because avarages give some insight on what you can expect but it is in no way leading. ive seen plenty of terminators die to the first shot they take or see entire mobs of orks only cause like 1 or 2 wounds...when they are the charging squad :) the dice can be fickle, harsh or generous! sometimes you just have to sacrifice a chicken or an hare to keep them on your good graces :P

 

thats said marines can be VERY tought to take down. like i said (or not said yet? not sure) i once survived an entire thousand sons army shooting at my (partly) exposed army. i had cast SoS and had a priest in the middle of my army. 2 10-man squads of thousand sons, a defiler, obliderators, the sorcers casting doombolt. by all accounts at least SOME of my marines should have been dead. none were. i got into combat and his army evaporated :lol: mind you we couldnt finish the game but it was horribly one sided...

 

*shrugs* point it, yes marines are tough. but relying on a toughness of 4 and 3+ armour save wont be enough in the bigger sized games. small trick like hoping from terrain from terrain (whatever by actually beeing in terrain or having enough men behind it for the save) can help inmensely. sometimes the most direct path to your enemy isent the best one ;)

 

i took a flamer in my list because id be over with 5 points otherwise B) a flamer and a melta make it a great allrounder unit but i prefer a 2nd melta myself...

 

id advice against taking veterans of any kind in 750 point games! while they might have some attraction on paper they die just as easily as normal marines and generally cost quite abit more points! mind you the honour guard are the only good exception to this that i can find since they have effectivly an SP included in their costs, making their point cost en parre with tactical marines! however when you add jumppacks to that unit their pointcost sky rockets! same for the plasmaguns...

 

to show you what i mean il run the numbers for you:

 

5 honour guard, 1 SP, 4 plasma, jumppacks - 225 pts

cost of the priest (cant be targetted in combat but also lacks WS5 or an option to take wargear) 75 pts (compared to a normal priest with JP)

avarage point for a JP plasmagunner - 37.5 points

 

got that by substracting the points of the priest and dividing the resulting point cost by 4 (the total amount of plasmagunners)

 

while the unit can dish out some hurt every casualty will give up a ton of points, something you (if you ask me) really cant afford in these small games. you need every unit to pull his own weight in these small games and when every model costs twice as much as a normal model that will hurt you in the long run. also this unit is rather tiny, at 5 men they can ill afford to take casualties and whenever they would face a dedicated assault squad of any kind will get masacred!

 

That said, ive never used a plasma honour guard squad so take it with a grain of salt. all im saying is that its a pricey unit for 5 models :lol:

 

same goes for the VV. 5 models with jumppacks cost 165 points, meaning 33 points per model, and thats before any special and/or sargeant upgrades have been added! they die just as easily as normal marines and only got 1 more attack base. not the best of an upgrade for what you pay!

 

Look im not trying to be a negative nancy here but veteran units of any kind are a 1 trick pony at best at 750 pts games. they either kill something and win you the game or are themselves killed off quikly leaving a sizeable gap in your army that you have no hope of filling with anything...

 

mind you, you should use whatever you think feels right m8 :) if an honour guard is the thing for you then go ahead! be very carefull on how you use them however because your upgrade from 500 to 750 is basicly a squad of 5 marines (with swapped SP)

[Brother_Byhlli]

I plan to to be careful with them. I also know well the value of terrain. I spent two turns yesterday hiding my six-man Assault Squad behind a building because I needed to wait for my second deep-striking unit to join the table. I have no problem using buildings and suchlike as cover - I tend to play quite defensively!

 

But remember that I have a 24" range on the rapid-firing plasma due to having jump packs (though that leaves me within charge range of the enemy, so I need to be sure of wiping them out) or I can stay 24" away from my target and fire single shots. All of which said, the Honour Guard is still handy in a combat.

 

It gives me an option for firing at, say, flamer units or meltagun units without moving into counter-attack range, which could be invaluable for my army. It also gives me the tools to take out a new type of enemy unit in heavy infantry or light vehicles.

 

You say that the unit is expensive, but actually if you compare them to Assault Squads they're cheap. An Assault Squad Sergeant is worth 28 points (100 points for a five-man Assault Squad; 90 points for five additional Space Marines. The 10-point difference pays for the Sergeant) and a plasma gun is worth 15 points. That's 43 points for the exact same statline as an Honour Guard model. You worked the Honour Guard out as costing 37.5 points each. So every Honour Guard unit with full plasma is actually giving you a discount of 26 points. That's an extra power fist, or two meltaguns, or five flamers.

 

You talk about the unit facing a dedicated assault unit. The point is that I quite simply would't allow it. Or, if I had to, I'd make sure I got the charge in - firing bolt pistols before charging in with my Honour Guard who all have the same statline as a Sergeant? I have no problem with that. Especially as I'll be planning on keeping them behind my Assault Squad, who get first dibs on combat.

 

I honestly think the Honour Guard provide me with the first stage of fire support that my army needs. I think they do it cheaply and I think they do it without compromising the mobility of the army - in fact, being rapid-firing weapons almost requires you keep them moving and mobile. I think they bring a new threat to my list and I think they synchronise really well with the rest of my army.

[Quixus]

You talk about the unit facing a dedicated assault unit. The point is that I quite simply would't allow it. Or, if I had to, I'd make sure I got the charge in - firing bolt pistols before charging in with my Honour Guard who all have the same statline as a Sergeant? I have no problem with that. Especially as I'll be planning on keeping them behind my Assault Squad, who get first dibs on combat.

Unfortunately that does not work. The Honour guard is only eqquipped with a bolt pistol or a boltgun. The plasma gun replaces the Boltgun/bolt pistol, so the marine in question has no ranged weapon besides the plasma gun.

 

Curse you Guilliman and your Codex! It is no problem for a marine to carry a huge missile launcher or Lascannon but Boltgun, bolt pistol and chainsword is just too much. :)

[Brother_Byhlli]

You talk about the unit facing a dedicated assault unit. The point is that I quite simply would't allow it. Or, if I had to, I'd make sure I got the charge in - firing bolt pistols before charging in with my Honour Guard who all have the same statline as a Sergeant? I have no problem with that. Especially as I'll be planning on keeping them behind my Assault Squad, who get first dibs on combat.

Unfortunately that does not work. The Honour guard is only eqquipped with a bolt pistol or a boltgun. The plasma gun replaces the Boltgun/bolt pistol, so the marine in question has no ranged weapon besides the plasma gun.

 

Curse you Guilliman and your Codex! It is no problem for a marine to carry a huge missile launcher or Lascannon but Boltgun, bolt pistol and chainsword is just too much. :)

 

Ah, my eagle-eyed brother-in-arms, not so!

 

Honour Guard can replace either their bolt pistol/boltgun or their chainswords with a selection of weapons. My Honour Guard will have bolt pistols and plasma guns so they can fire a round off on their way into combat and the bolt pistols will then count as their close combat weapon.

 

:P

[Quixus]

Woops my bad.

[Demoulius]

comparing plasmagunner to assault marine sargeants gives abit false stats if you ask me. why you ask? quite simply because their roles arent identical. yes they can both move move 12 inches and have both 2 base attacks LD9 etc. assault marine veterans are however intended to assault and the plasmagunner honour guard intend to shoot at range or rapid fire, braving the assault of whatever is left (and hoping they dont get turned into a paste by it...)

 

to compare their price (again)

5 HG, JP, 4 plasma. - 225.

10 assault marines, PF, 2 melta 235.

 

10 points more expensive but twice the numbers my friend :) give me numbers over quality any day in this example. honour guard also arent scoring and each wound after the first forces a LD test.

 

you wont allow your opponent to charge you with his dedicated assault troops? please dont get cocky here. you arent the only one with tricks and tactics up his sleave ;) saying you will NEVER allow your units to be charged is saying something like "I WILL NEVER DIE!!!" you may believe it but it will happen once eventually...(sorry if that comes across as a little grim :P)

 

there are many armies and tactics in this game and the truth of the matter is that some units simply have a gigantic charge range or that you in some other way couldnt stop in time. tyranid raveners beeing a good example of this with an 24 inch assault range (mind you their max assault range possible but nonetheless)

 

ever heard of harlequins? oh they are a treat to face the first time you face them believe me <_< their movement ignore terrain, you fire at them with modified nightfighting rules if they take an upgrade characters (and they have NO reason not to....2d6 times 2 if im not mistaken, giving you a MAX range of 24 inches to shoot at them, an avarage of 14) they are base initiative what....6? 7? and can have rending attacks... believe me whatever gets charged by unit (barring walkers) will feel a new world of pain...

 

and thats just 1 example unit from 1 codex...

 

and even if you somehow manage to keep them out of assault that isent where the only danger lies. shooting can also be hazardous. with only 5 model it doesent take long for the SP to be forced to take armour saves either!

 

to give a nice example: ever faced tau? their suits can move, have relentless (not the rule but the effect anyway) and can have plasma that wont overheat. oh and here the icing on the cake, they can make a move in their assault phase moving back out of line of sight (and/or out of range). good luck winning that firefight ;) to stay in touch with the same army. base tau firearms are 30" range and are S5. they have weapons called marker lights where they can (with each hit) take down your cover save by 1 point (to name but 1 thing) so several units working together can also spell doom for your 5 men hiding behind terrain. the 10 man assault can weather this more easily because the squad is twice the size and (for example) thiis leads that it will take longer for the priest (and/or other attached characters) to be hiti by wound allocation.

 

to be frank blood angels (and space marines in general) are only so so in close combat. we are only so so in range but because the army is so well rounded its quite forgiving. mind you blood angels do have a slight advantage towards combat. FnP and FC help a long way towards that as well.

 

that all said. try the unit out. if you like it then keep them. if you dont like it no worries either, you can either learn how to use them or use the models for other units :D there are other options in the codex is kinda what im saying :P sample alot of units and see what you like! heck, proxy if the people in your club/GW allow it! its a great way to find that one unit that you are looking for!

[Brother_Byhlli]

Woops my bad.

 

:P

 

It was actually only last night that I realised you could pick either weapon. I would have said the same thing as you before.