Witch Hunters without Sisters; pure Inquis.

[thade]

I've only seen the WH codex in action twice, and both forces were Sisters-centric. I have no idea what I'm up against tomorrow evening. It's a friendly game, so I don't aim to build a list to exploit him...but I don't want to show up to a gunfight with a rubber ducky. (Unless that rubby ducky Counts As a Power Fist.)

 

Title says it all: what should I expect? Lots of mech? Light infantry? Tons of plasma? Should I fuel up the Land Raider Redeemer, or would that be abusive? My typical fluffy list is something like:

 

Librarian in TDA (Sword of Sang - S10, Unleash Rage - He's like a timid Chaplain!)

2-3 Tactical Squads (PF, otherwise no special weapons. no, really), all mounted in Rhinos

0-1 assault squad on foot, mounted in either a Rhino or the LRR; one melta gun, one PF

0-1 jump team, two flamers and a PF

2-3 apothecaries (sanguine priests)

0-1 vanguard, anti-infantry; if they're in, they're in the raider.

1 sternguard. I love these guys. Two combi-meltas, one PF

0-1 vindi's

0-1 LRR

1 devestator squad, 4 MLs. No PF. No, really. This one infantry team doesn't get one.

 

I was thinking of dusting off the Reclusiarch (jump chaplain with a srsly bad attitude) for this game.

 

Now that he'll have a clear view of what I plan to field, I don't feel so bad asking about what he may field. :P And what they do?

[Chengar Qordath]

A lot depends on whether or not he's using the Allies rules, or taking advantage of the options in the Imperial Armor books/updates; suffice to say, those could give him so very different options. If he's conscripting Guard/Marines or using the IA 2's rules that turn Valkyries into dedicated transports for Inquisition Stormtroopers, his list will be very different from something built entirely out of the codex.

[thade]

I believe he's using pure WH codex rules. IG units I'm familiar with, so we can eschew those for now, I think...even if he does ally him.

 

IA is really, really rare around here (I've yet to see anybody field a model/unit that's only from IA, and it was for an Apoc battle) so I'm not too worried about that.

 

Let me start with this: what is a "Pentitnent Engine" other than a big MC/Walker thingy? Are the assassins in the WH book identical/very much like the ones in the old DH codex? (I have the old DH codex.)

[Koremu]

Let me start with this: what is a "Pentitnent Engine" other than a big MC/Walker thingy?

It's an open-topped 11/11/10 Walker with 2 DCCW & a Heavy Flamer. Random Attacks (D6), and some special rules that can be generally summed up as "wants to CC you more".

 

Or, to put it another way, it's a krak missile magnet.

[Chengar Qordath]

The Penitent Engine is basically a weaker, cheaper Dreadnought; it only has Open-topped Front Armor 11 and a single heavy flamer, but still has DCCWs, so if it gets into melee it can hurt, and since they can come in squadrons of 3 and have d6 attacks each they can do a lot of damage. They also have the Holy Rage rule, which gives them an extra d6 of movement, but they have to move towards/charge the closest enemy, so you can try to lure Penitent Engines away from vulnerable units. Shoot them before they get into close combat, and you'll be fine.

 

Assassins are identical to the old DH Codex.

 

If he's going pure WH, his main troops will be Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. They're reasonably likely to be mechanized, and carry a pair of special weapons (usually melta or plasma). Treat them like IG Veterans with Carapace Armor, since that's essentially what they are.

 

Another unit to look out for are Acro-Flagellants; the WH version are nastier than their GK counterparts, thanks to having power weapons, toughness 5, and a 4++. The good news is that they can't ride in transports, and their implant rules have a chance of killing them every turn once the implants are activated. They also have Holy Rage, like the Penitent Engines. Shoot them before they get into melee range.

 

One last thing to look out for; Inquisitors. The old unlimited-range psychic hood might cause your Librarian some annoyance, and the WH Inquisitors do have some nice retinue options, like Crusaders or special weapon spam. Being able to take an Inquisitor Lord HQ and Elite-slot Inquisitors also makes spamming henchmen a bit easier. WH does have one or two nasty Psychic powers; Purgatus can permanently reduce a model's leadership by 3, and Divine Pronouncement can force morale checks at a penalty.

[DarkGuard]

Whatever you do, I wouldn't bring plasma. Reason being is that thanks to faith points they could make their armour save invulnerable, so in this case bringing a flamer for more hits and wounds would be better, remember they are only T3!

 

In combat they are sort of weird, as they can be nasty with a strength increasing power, but again they have a lower toughness, and inherently they are worst in combat than you, so could be worth tying them up in combat.

 

Witch Hunters were one of the armies in Shadowstalker Grim's Enemies 101, I distinctly remember working on it, could be worth checking out, the link is in my sig.

[thade]

Witch Hunters were one of the armies in Shadowstalker Grim's Enemies 101, I distinctly remember working on it, could be worth checking out, the link is in my sig.

Excellent; I'll read through that for sure.

[Chengar Qordath]

Whatever you do, I wouldn't bring plasma. Reason being is that thanks to faith points they could make their armour save invulnerable, so in this case bringing a flamer for more hits and wounds would be better, remember they are only T3!

 

In combat they are sort of weird, as they can be nasty with a strength increasing power, but again they have a lower toughness, and inherently they are worst in combat than you, so could be worth tying them up in combat.

You did notice that the thread title specified that he was up against a list with no Sisters, didn't you? That means Faith points/powers are a non-issue.

[thade]

How is their ranged anti-vehicle support? If they're 4+ saves (or worse) a pair of Dreads with Assault cannons might be fun. (But if Bolters and Flamers will AP them it might be overkill.)

[DarkGuard]

Whatever you do, I wouldn't bring plasma. Reason being is that thanks to faith points they could make their armour save invulnerable, so in this case bringing a flamer for more hits and wounds would be better, remember they are only T3!

 

In combat they are sort of weird, as they can be nasty with a strength increasing power, but again they have a lower toughness, and inherently they are worst in combat than you, so could be worth tying them up in combat.

You did notice that the thread title specified that he was up against a list with no Sisters, didn't you? That means Faith points/powers are a non-issue.

 

I did just see that, my bad!

 

However, my point stands, because flamers would be better in this instance anyway :D

[Darkmagi]

Their ranged anti-vehicle is mostly limited to special weps, and some heavy wep servitors... as long as they arnt playing sisters... if they are you have to watch out for exorsist missile launchers, str8 ap1 heavy d6 48" range. if no sisters then look to IG to see what you have to worry about really.

[Chengar Qordath]

How is their ranged anti-vehicle support? If they're 4+ saves (or worse) a pair of Dreads with Assault cannons might be fun. (But if Bolters and Flamers will AP them it might be overkill.)

If he's going for Penitent engines in his heavy support, he won't have much in the way of long-range firepower. The Exorcist is technically not a Sisters of Battle unit by RAW, but if he says he's playing pure Inquisition odds are very good he won't be fielding them since fluff/background wise they are Sisters.

 

Generally speaking, most of his good AT would probably come from melta-ISTs; a five-man squad with 2 meltas is cheap and makes for good tank-hunting.

 

He could take an Orbital Strike in one of his heavy slots; a large pieplate with Strength 8 and 2d6 penetration is nasty, but since the WH Orbital Strike has to be keyed to a specific piece of terrain at the start of the battle, it's a bit hit-or-miss.

 

The Vindicare's Turbo-Penetrator round is obviously something to keep in mind, but it's a one-shot weapon.

 

Inquisitor retinues can be a good place to spam melta/plasma as special or heavy weapons, so keep an eye out for them. Inquisitors with retinues can also take Land Raiders as dedicated transports, which can make for a nasty surprise if you don't expect it.

[ShinyRhino]

IIRC, Penitent Engines have dual-flamers on their arms, instead of a single heavy flamer, yes?

If it has both arms, it fires as a heavy flamer. If you lose one arm, it fires as a standard flamer.

[DarkGuard]

IIRC, Penitent Engines have dual-flamers on their arms, instead of a single heavy flamer, yes?

If it has both arms, it fires as a heavy flamer. If you lose one arm, it fires as a standard flamer.

 

That is correct. And if you lost an arm attacks go from D6 to D6-1.

[thade]

Since you all keep posting in here, I should probably update you all on (roughly) how the game went last Thursday. :whistling:

 

My list, as best as I can recall, was a for-fun list:

Reclusiarch w/ JP

3x Apothecaries (Sanguine Priest counts-as), one of them with JP

2 tac squads, 8 marines each, PF, Rhino

1 jump team, PF, flamer

1 assault team, PF, melta, in a LRC

Devs, 10 marines, 4xML

Dread w/ MM, EA

Dread w/ Assault Cannon, EA

 

His list was something like:

- Inquisitor Lord with a good retinue (ten models I think); a servitor, several models which - if he failed a save with the Inq - he could throw the wounds onto those models; some others.

- Easily 6-8 Rhinos, one or two Chimeras, each with a six-man Storm Trooper squad in it with various load-outs (power sword here or there, meltas and plasma; one unit had 2xFlamers...that I thought were heavy flamers until gut-check-time).

- Three death cult assassins.

- One assassin (type I can't recall) that was able to move one of my units 6" and could deploy unerringly 1" away from one of my units.

 

The mission was Capture and Control; deployment was pitched. Table set-up was with six-ish terrain pieces. One massive (14" tall, at least) Mayan-temple style structure at the center, difficult (but not area) terrain centered in each quadrant, then some tank traps in the middle of what became my deployment zone. Given the absolute absence of area terrain, the height of the terrain pieces, and the unknown nature of my opponent, I decided to go on the defensive and put everything into reserve except for the Devs and the Dreads. Devs were combat squadded and placed flanking my objective (which was right behind the tank traps) with firing lanes to his objective (far right corner for me) and the other side. Next to each Dev squad I placed a Dread (MM on the right, Assault Cannon on the left), hoping it would help when the Assassin touched down to eat some Devs. He deployed with nearly every transport on the table, hiding some assassins behind terrain near his objective that I honestly forgot about until gut-check-time.

 

Unknown to me, this player was also into the Water Warrior school of thought.

 

I can't really give the battle justice in a rep, especially four days hence...but it was heavily tactical and a good time. I advanced my dreads a little bit and both failed to hurt the transports they shot at. Naturally the MM dread lost a weapon (his fist) and the AC dread was Immoblized. Miraculously, neither of them suffered any more damage for the remainder of the game.

 

Second turn everything but one of my tac squads came out of reserves. I put the Jump team behind the temple for counter-charging (and to wait before gunning his objective). I moved the LRC and Tac squad Rhino in on the left...literally as far from his objective as they could be. In retrospect, this was what cost me a win, but I was playing as if I were drunk anyway, so the only real regret there was that I was not actually drunk. The reasoning here was that I planned to contest his point (again, forgetting the assassins were there) and hoped to convince him that I intended to get my tac squad there (Fast Rhinos) and draw attention away from the Jump Team..which I felt would obviously look like a suicide squad.

 

Well...

 

His assassin hopped in and assaulted my jump team, wanting a piece of the apothecary. Over two turns and shenanigans (she somehow lept out of the unit and charged it again) I lost half the squad and my Reclusiarch had 1 wound remaining at the end of it. The apothecary was unscathed.

 

Meanwhile, my LRC was able to cripple two transports at mid-table, one of which held that large retinue which the LRC, the Assault Cannon Dread, and the left flank Dev team put a considerable amount of shots into before it went down to the packless assault team's bolt pistol fire.

 

The left-flank Tac Squad made into his deployment zone, half way across the table (still two turns shy of reaching the target) where it was finally immobilized by a Storm Trooper melta team...which was righteously purged by my zealous Tactical Marines (who naturally eschewed rapid fire to charge the heretical radicals and punch their faces in). The immobilized Rhino - in its defining moment - nearly killed the third assassin which had been hiding behind the temple.

 

The right Dev Team and the MM Dread were able to Stun and Immobilize what tranports approached on the right flank, keeping my objective uncontested. As for gut-check-time...

 

My Jump Team went all in and made a made three turn dash (from turns four to six) to get to his objective. After the assassin, all that remained were: an apothecary, a 1w Reclusiarch, a PF-wielding sergeant, and two brave marines. They leapt forward and ran up to (but not into) a crater the dread had made previously (when it vaporized a transport and its contents). Another transport unloaded the two flamers and they lit up my Jump Team...only to discover that flamers and laspistol fire only make marines angry, so they charged my marines to try and tie them up.

 

After enjoying their free consolidation move, my jump team moved forward again, this time splitting into three targets as the ICs broke off. My hope was that three targets would have a better chance of getting one model within contention range than one unit.

 

This is where I remembered that there were Death Cult assassins hiding back there, and I immediately regretted:

• Using an assault squad in precisely they way I recommended against, even in threads this past week.
  
• Moving the first tac squad in on the left side of the board instead of the right side.
  
• Not committing my Dreadnought earlier to moving along with the jump team.
  

While I was discouraged, my marines did not relent.

 

The Reclusiarch righteously charged and annihilated one of the two Death Cultists with chaplain-re-roll shenanigans. Also, he failed the one invulnerable save he was called on to make and went down. 12" from the objective.

 

The Apothecary went down in a hail of scatter laser fire from the transport sitting on the objective...8" from the objective.

 

The jump team remnant was cut down by the other assassin...9" from the objective.

 

The closest he got with his last push was roughly 16".

 

At this point my opponent and I shook on what was clearly a draw, as neither of us could possibly get into range of the others objective within the remaining turn.

 

It was a good time, despite my obvious mistakes. Thanks for the tips, all!

[Chengar Qordath]

- One assassin (type I can't recall) that was able to move one of my units 6" and could deploy unerringly 1" away from one of my units.

That would be the Callidus Assassin. Not surprising; it's usually the most popular assassin in the WH/GK codex.

 

Sounds like it was a good game.