DoW III

[Rafen_2]

A lot of people seem to complain about the way the W40k games are made. So here I would like to hear what people would like to make a "perfect" Dawn of War game. Just follow the simple outline that I'm going to use below.

 

1. 4 Factions (since they seem to start each series with four)

1. Space Marines (obviously)
   
2. Chaos Space Marines (obvious)
   
3. Orks (need some dumb xeno)
   
4. Tau Empire (personal favorite)
   

 

2. Gamestyle

If anyone ever played the Warhammer games something similar to that. For those that didn't it is tabletop based. Before each battle you choose what squads to bring in with you so ex. 2 generals, 5 troops, 3 fast, and 2 heavy. Each squad/hero gets exp which can be used to upgrade things like weapons, armor, and abilities. For actual battles just watch the Warhammer fighting style:

 

3. Campaign

Personally I like campaigns that force you to use all of the factions available. But I would like it if you also had to go back to the faction later. As for story maybe Space Marines (Blood Ravens) fighting off an Ork (doesn't matter which) invasion in the beginning. Then the Tau (doesn't matter which) see this as a key opportunity to start expanding their grip. But the first planet they land on used to be a warp gate for Chaos (Black Legion no Eliphas). The Tau get tricked into re-opening the gate and so on. Space Marines forced to switch gears and Tau decide to help deal with the Orks. Orks do their own thang and just go. Chaos does whatever the hell it wants because it can.

 

4. Important Things to Add-on

1. For Space Marines have option to choose what Chapter play style. So when you set up your army choose maybe Blood Angels to receive Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Or maybe Black Templars for Sword Brethren and the Emperor's Champion. Ultramarines would be for the normal set.
   
2. Do the same thing for Chaos except with gods (all 4, stop being lazy Relic) or Undivided.
   
3. For Tau let the leaders be able to choose out of a bunch of armours. Also add more xenos that turned to the Greater Good. We all like Kroot but we need more Vespid and maybe some Guardsmen who turned.
   

 

That is my vision of a good game so either make your own based on these 4 points, add to mine, change mine, or be like Chaos and do your own thang.

[Brother Rathul]

A lot of people seem to complain about the way the W40k games are made. So here I would like to hear what people would like to make a "perfect" Dawn of War game. Just follow the simple outline that I'm going to use below.

 

1. 4 Factions (since they seem to start each series with four)

1. Space Marines (obviously)
   
2. Chaos Space Marines (obvious)
   
3. Orks (need some dumb xeno)
   
4. Tau Empire (personal favorite)
   

 

2. Gamestyle

If anyone ever played the Warhammer games something similar to that. For those that didn't it is tabletop based. Before each battle you choose what squads to bring in with you so ex. 2 generals, 5 troops, 3 fast, and 2 heavy. Each squad/hero gets exp which can be used to upgrade things like weapons, armor, and abilities. For actual battles just watch the Warhammer fighting style:

 

3. Campaign

Personally I like campaigns that force you to use all of the factions available. But I would like it if you also had to go back to the faction later. As for story maybe Space Marines (Blood Ravens) fighting off an Ork (doesn't matter which) invasion in the beginning. Then the Tau (doesn't matter which) see this as a key opportunity to start expanding their grip. But the first planet they land on used to be a warp gate for Chaos (Black Legion no Eliphas). The Tau get tricked into re-opening the gate and so on. Space Marines forced to switch gears and Tau decide to help deal with the Orks. Orks do their own thang and just go. Chaos does whatever the hell it wants because it can.

 

4. Important Things to Add-on

1. For Space Marines have option to choose what Chapter play style. So when you set up your army choose maybe Blood Angels to receive Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Or maybe Black Templars for Sword Brethren and the Emperor's Champion. Ultramarines would be for the normal set.
   
2. Do the same thing for Chaos except with gods (all 4, stop being lazy Relic) or Undivided.
   
3. For Tau let the leaders be able to choose out of a bunch of armours. Also add more xenos that turned to the Greater Good. We all like Kroot but we need more Vespid and maybe some Guardsmen who turned.
   

 

That is my vision of a good game so either make your own based on these 4 points, add to mine, change mine, or be like Chaos and do your own thang.

 

1. Why those four? Space Marines yes but the other three could take a back seat. I was introduced to 40k by reading the Ultramarines Omnibus. If the game could be something like that, making Space Marines all powerful gods of war then it'd be epic, but there has to be a balance.

 

2. Why do you think that? Its not supposed to be like a Empire: Total War or Starcraft style. Half the fun of the game is being able to pick however many units of each category you want. If I wanted for example, 6 Devastator Squads I could, but that wouldn't be logical. The xp part though would be nice and that way it wouldn't come out of your army building requsition. This isn't supposed to be like the tabletop, its supposed to be mass carnage, strategy, tactics (Unless your IG or Orks), and massive firepower all in one bottle. that's what EVERYBODY likes.

 

3. I don't know about the campaign, Im still workin on it. Maybe folling a single Hero as he goes from initiate, to scout, and so on and so forth would make for an intresting campaign and a lengthy one. YOU as the player would be able to decide his fate though like DoW II: Chaos Rising with the corrupted wargear, objectives, choices and such. Will he be a hero of the chapter? An outcast? A traitor? And all the while you're getting this RPG feel, you get to command hero squads (10 man/actual size) and could recruit more regular squads if the need persists, but balance it by maing them horrendously expensive (except in multiplayer and skirmish modes)

 

4. That would bevery hard to do, and take A LOT of time. Although it'd be AWESOME to get an Empeor's Champion from the Black Templars in Imperial Fists colors and wreck everything that might be getting too far ahread. Not to mention, those who don't follow 40k fluff (most DoW II players) would have no idea what that stuff even is.

[EvilToast]

I think a diablo 2 esc thing would be cool playing as as hero (SP Captain, Ork Warboss , Chaos Lord, ect ) would be sweet and could give more depth to the individual characters.

[spartan249]

I want the same style of DoW2 (heavy emphasis on small unit tactics and cover tactics) on a larger scale (or rather, correct scale. I'm still really annoyed that tac squads come with 3 marines when it should be 4 normal marines with a sergeant upgrade available). I also want a fixed HQ system using actual HQs rather then normal dudes. Most of all, I want more of the TT units available to all the factions.

 

DoW2 as it is feels too small scale.

[Rafen_2]

@Brother Rathul

1. Chaos because they are the Space Marines greatest enemy. Orks since you get introduced to Ultramarines and Orks with the GW starter pack Assault on Black Reach. I put Tau just because I like them but that really could be any thing else such as Imperial Guard or Eldar.

 

2. I think you mis-read what I meant. You would be able to put that many units into each match but you would do that before the match so you aren't just sitting there waiting for requisiton. But I kinda see that you wouldn't be able to build more troops. Plus it's my opinion and nothing more. At least we agree with exp point usage.

 

3. I kinda like your idea for a campaign better. The only thing is if you want the RPG feel it should be controlling one guy but you see your Brothers, Traitors, or Xeno buddies next to you.

 

4. I like fluff and it would be nice but that section is for unnecessary stuff that would be nice IF they did it. Who cares if people don't get it? They will just get different options when they play. Plus that wouldn't work if we did gameplay your way.

 

@EvilToast

See my new number 3.

 

@spartan249

I guess but the point of starting a new series is to get a different gameplay thing but I can see where you're going with that because I really felt the scale was off.

[Brother Rathul]

I want the same style of DoW2 (heavy emphasis on small unit tactics and cover tactics) on a larger scale (or rather, correct scale. I'm still really annoyed that tac squads come with 3 marines when it should be 4 normal marines with a sergeant upgrade available). I also want a fixed HQ system using actual HQs rather then normal dudes. Most of all, I want more of the TT units available to all the factions.

 

DoW2 as it is feels too small scale.

 

@Brother Rathul

1. Chaos because they are the Space Marines greatest enemy. Orks since you get introduced to Ultramarines and Orks with the GW starter pack Assault on Black Reach. I put Tau just because I like them but that really could be any thing else such as Imperial Guard or Eldar.

 

2. I think you mis-read what I meant. You would be able to put that many units into each match but you would do that before the match so you aren't just sitting there waiting for requisiton. But I kinda see that you wouldn't be able to build more troops. Plus it's my opinion and nothing more. At least we agree with exp point usage.

 

3. I kinda like your idea for a campaign better. The only thing is if you want the RPG feel it should be controlling one guy but you see your Brothers, Traitors, or Xeno buddies next to you.

 

4. I like fluff and it would be nice but that section is for unnecessary stuff that would be nice IF they did it. Who cares if people don't get it? They will just get different options when they play. Plus that wouldn't work if we did gameplay your way.

 

spartan249- The first time I played DoW II, I was like, where are the other 7 guys in my squad??? But yes, I totally agree with you. I think they tried to make it a bigger scale with DoW II: Retribution, but it's not big enough yet. On the other hand, there must be some sort of population cap because you wouldn't have that many marines in one spot if you count all the units both built and killed. Maybe adding the Librarian to the HQ and a Chaplain instead of the Techmarine and the Apothecary?? The tactics part though is still good so I woudn't really mess with that too much.

 

Rafen_2-1. Yea, i could see that. That does make a good point but it would be mice to change it up a little since that's what we started with in DoW II except Chaos and Tau. Necrons would be kinda cool to add because they are almost unstopable and a good counter to Space Marines.

 

2. You wait for requsitiion because you wait for reinforcements. I believe that's what it's for??? It would be nice starting with all your troops before the game starts but it would end a lot faster.

 

3. What do you mean by seeing your buddies next to you???

 

4. That's true. Gamepla in Singleplayer and multiplayer modes would be different though, so it could work.

[Rafen_2]

2. You wait for requsitiion because you wait for reinforcements. I believe that's what it's for??? It would be nice starting with all your troops before the game starts but it would end a lot faster.

 

3. What do you mean by seeing your buddies next to you???

 

Yeah the matches would end faster unless you added extra things to help win a match instead of the just kill them all concept.

 

I meant in games like Call of Duty were you are one guy and you see your squad members running around, shooting, or anything else. So if you were a scout you could see the other scouts doing what you are trying to do.

[MagicMan]

I want the same style of DoW2 (heavy emphasis on small unit tactics and cover tactics) on a larger scale (or rather, correct scale. I'm still really annoyed that tac squads come with 3 marines when it should be 4 normal marines with a sergeant upgrade available). I also want a fixed HQ system using actual HQs rather then normal dudes. Most of all, I want more of the TT units available to all the factions.

 

DoW2 as it is feels too small scale.

 

 

This pretty much.

 

 

I really do love DoW2, its not the same as DoW and at first i disliked it, but its definitely my favourite out of the two now.

 

 

What i'd like is for the scale to be upped, i want to have 40 marines and a handful of tanks kicking around vs a few hundred orks. Not 9 marines, a razorback and a Dreadnought and find the Pop Cap is full.

 

And id like a Dark Crusade style campaign. They did pretty well in retribution to get all the factions in as playable, but playing the same campaign story with different dudes pretty much sucked. The Dark Crusade version was much better in that regard, it was the same campaign each time, but it was a freeform campaign. You could run around skirmishing the whole time if you wanted, instead of doing a set number of story missions and you're done.

[Brother Valerius]

I want them to return to the gameplay of DoW. That game was the perfect RTS in my eyes, and not only was DoW 2 a major departure (which is a big enough sin, as I feel that sequels should bear more than a passing resemblance to the prior games), the gameplay was just... bad compared to DoW 1. Resource management, base building, and large-scale tactics (as opposed to micromanaging a team of 4 guys) are the bread and butter of a good RTS. DoW 2 has none of those things. They just need to forget it like the mistake it was, and give us a worthy game again.

 

Relic, I know you can do it. You did it before. Don't let me down here.

[Rafen_2]

And id like a Dark Crusade style campaign. They did pretty well in retribution to get all the factions in as playable, but playing the same campaign story with different dudes pretty much sucked. The Dark Crusade version was much better in that regard, it was the same campaign each time, but it was a freeform campaign. You could run around skirmishing the whole time if you wanted, instead of doing a set number of story missions and you're done.

 

Think about what you just said here. You don't want the same campaign for each yet in Dark Crusade the campaign was the same for each just justified with different opening vid, closing vid, and not being able to attack your own stronghold. Besides this I like the scale you mentioned before.

 

@Brother Valerius: okay but you forget about the times the buildings coudn't fit and your big tanks couldn't go everywhere on the map. I would like DoW style just with DoW 2 cover system plus tanks being able to break cover system.

[MagicMan]

Think about what you just said here. You don't want the same campaign for each yet in Dark Crusade the campaign was the same for each just justified with different opening vid, closing vid, and not being able to attack your own stronghold. Besides this I like the scale you mentioned before.

 

 

 

Maybe i did put it across badly.

 

 

What i'd like is a freeform campaign where i could play as any faction, rather than a linear campaign i could play as any faction.

 

 

Don't have 10 missions to complete which are the same for every faction, give me a campaign map i can conquer however i like as any faction. The seperate storylines/banter in Retribution were pretty good, for some races. Like Tarkus popping up/Nemerian's revelations about Taldeer. They should keep that sort of thing.

 

 

Dow2 + Chaos Rising were fine in that they were story driven campaigns, and fun, like Dow1 + Winter assault, i just thought retribution was a let down.

[Rafen_2]

Oh, that makes more sense thank you sir. That would actually be fine with me but I want a story campaign that incorporates the map plus whatever faction you want like the first 2 DoW IIs.

[Orphus]

OK rather than give my opinions on people's posts I'll put up what I want to see (i have read your posts though).

The sense of scale was never really big enough in DoW II and felt restricted. A combination of I and II would be good. I want vehicles properly sized, for one. weapons redone eg bolts that actually explode, railgun shots that look real and for THQ to please please please do their research!

[MagicMan]

Did you play DoW2? The vehicles were the right size in that.

 

 

Check it out next to the guys its burning. -_-

 

 

http://frostpaw.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/landraider.jpg

[Rafen_2]

Yeah character sizes wasn't really an issue for me so I don't see the big deal with that.

 

And just to let you know Relic makes the games and THQ is a marketing company so has no say in the production.

[Sparhawk]

I'm apparently in the minority in that I love the fact that DOW 2 wasn't just a standard SC/C&C style RTS with a 40k coat of paint on it. The squad management with equipment and abilities is what really kept me in the game. I wouldn't argue if they let you take more than 4 "hero" squads with you and gave you some more options that acted a bit more "fluffy" but overall I unequivocally loved DOW 2 and both expansions.

 

To put my gaming preferences in perspective I absolutely love The Last Stand mode but don't find the multiplayer to be much fun. I enjoy the small scale squad based cooperative gameplay to the large scale more multiplayer style gameply.

 

And of course to completely contradict myself, I found Dark Crusade to be amazing but for me the big allure were the commander upgrades, the retinue, and the special abilities from the different territories.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

DoW III

 

I'd like to see it without the Blood Ravens.

[Rafen_2]

DoW III

 

I'd like to see it without the Blood Ravens.

 

I hate to tell you this but that is never going to happen. What would we all do if they decided to use a legit Chapter and they butchered them fluff wise? We would all complain and probably stop playing. At least with the Blood Ravens they're fake and they can have their fun.

 

@Sparhawk: Building can be fun but I have to agree with the customization with each squad especially for Chaos. And I like that you have to pick one HQ to lead your forces (excepts the terrible ones like: Plauge Champion, Apothecary, Tech Marine, and the two tyranid alphas).

[Brother Rathul]

DoW III

 

I'd like to see it without the Blood Ravens.

 

I hate to tell you this but that is never going to happen. What would we all do if they decided to use a legit Chapter and they butchered them fluff wise? We would all complain and probably stop playing. At least with the Blood Ravens they're fake and they can have their fun.

 

@Sparhawk: Building can be fun but I have to agree with the customization with each squad especially for Chaos. And I like that you have to pick one HQ to lead your forces (excepts the terrible ones like: Plauge Champion, Apothecary, Tech Marine, and the two tyranid alphas).

 

-Who says it has to be a chapter already made? They can always make another one up.

 

-All the Heros you mentioned are all excellent units, except the tyranid lictor I believe.

[Rafen_2]

I didn't mean they were bad units just not HQ choice material. Should they count as normal troops such as the Librarian was? Yes. But HQ? No. Plus the Tyranid Alphas were a bit lame when you could have other guys like the Broodlord or something of that nature not just a normal unit with the word "Alpha" in front of it.

 

As far as a new chapter goes what would they do with it? They developed the Blood Ravens as their poster child and their still growing with Angelos as their Chapter Master. I could see starting a new chapter but having the story feature the Blood Ravens.

[MagicMan]

They could cover one of the wars.

 

 

The battle for Armageddon for instance.

 

 

How kickass would that be? A Dark Crusade-style campaign based on the DoW2 engine, with the heroes/army thing they had going with retribution. More items though, and the hero Advancement from DoW2 No.1 + Chaos rising. Oh and a Chaplain please. :P

[Rafen_2]

They could cover one of the wars.

 

 

The battle for Armageddon for instance.

 

 

How kickass would that be? A Dark Crusade-style campaign based on the DoW2 engine, with the heroes/army thing they had going with retribution. More items though, and the hero Advancement from DoW2 No.1 + Chaos rising. Oh and a Chaplain please. :D

 

:P That would be godly. Except how many people were involved? Isn't it just Guard, Ork, and several Space Marine Chapters? If so they should have multiple factions for Space Marines representing each.

[Brother Rathul]

They could cover one of the wars.

 

 

The battle for Armageddon for instance.

 

 

How kickass would that be? A Dark Crusade-style campaign based on the DoW2 engine, with the heroes/army thing they had going with retribution. More items though, and the hero Advancement from DoW2 No.1 + Chaos rising. Oh and a Chaplain please. :(

 

MagicMan-You know, they might actually do that. The IG un Retribution mention Comissar Yarrick quite a lot, it could be hinting at something? That's actually basically what I said in I believe the post #2 I believe, but it's nice somone shares the same ideas.

 

Rafen_2-There is more than one battle for Armageddon :jaw:

[Rafen_2]

I know there were multiple battles but what races were involved?

[Brother Rathul]

I know there were multiple battles but what races were involved?

 

I know Chaos, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Imperial Gurad, Orks, Space Marine chapters, and Black Templars