Opinions/Ideas

[PyronusSouria]

I had an idea for a chapter with a medieval theme, where instead of bolters they use a longbow that would fire an arrow that works similarly to a bolt, and they would have knights who would have some sort of horse-type steed, either living or constructed. I'm looking for opinions on this, and whether it would ever be plausible in the universe of 40k without it being Chaos.

[Paradill]

No, just, just no.... Medieval theme is already done with several chapters, the longbow idea is a bit silly, single arrow loading time vs. bolter magazine loading time = dead chapter.

 

Just my tuppence

 

Paradill

[PyronusSouria]

Yeah, I agree with that, thanks for the input :P

[Ferrata]

I had an idea for a chapter with a medieval theme, where instead of bolters they use a longbow that would fire an arrow that works similarly to a bolt, and they would have knights who would have some sort of horse-type steed, either living or constructed. I'm looking for opinions on this, and whether it would ever be plausible in the universe of 40k without it being Chaos.

The quoted bit is a good idea - the medieval knight theme works fantastic with Marines. A lot of chapters have this in them, but it can really make a nice chapter. However, the rest of it goes off the path...a lot. You don't need to be so obvious with the theme, things like personal heraldry, chivilaric code of conduct etc would make a better chapter than longbows.

[Warsmith IV]

It's not really a very specific theme, since Marines are already medieval in many ways (Knights, swords, protectors of the weak). I guess horse-type steeds could work (worked fro Thunderwolf Cavalry... sort of) but you'd need to be very careful and give it something quite original.

 

The longbows... aside from the fact I don't think it's a viable concept, it would be really annoying to convert every marine. Oh, and it could cause difficulties with firing bolt pistols single-handed...

[PyronusSouria]

The way I tried to make the longbow concept viable was it was like a Sternguard squad, and they were more powerful than a standard bolter and had a longer range, making them viable.

[soddinnutter]

The longbow thing could work for the scouts. It is a quiet weapon after all.

 

May even have special ammunition for special opponents. Deamonic opponant? Silver arrow with psionic runes carved on it. Lets see it claw that one out.

 

But other than that you may as well just use a silenced weapon.

[PyronusSouria]

Another idea I just had was attaching a bow or crossbow looking bit to the end of the bolter, kind of like the Torque Bow from Gears of War.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I am reminded of the movie Van Helsing where there is a "gas-powered crossbow) with a drum magazine. See what you can make of that. A flamer counts-as (low range high saturation of the area), shotguns? Maybe a high-powered sniper-counts-as? For regular bolters you could do something similar. If you have seen the game "Heavenly Sword" there is a rapid firing crossbow that has two bows that fire one after the other, or together for a really long range shot.

[lothbrok]

you could just say they found an stc construct and found how to make the "longbow" pattern bolter that is more powerful and longer ranged than a standard bolter and use it exclusively for sternguard. secondly being a predominant wolf player i love the horse idea ;) .

[PyronusSouria]

I was thinking about this concept and I actually don't see why it's so ridiculous for them to use a longbow :P A bolter doesn't fire all that fast, and if the bow had a longer range and self propelled ammunition, it wouldn't take that long for a Space Marine to fire a shot. I mean, Legolas just pumps them out, why couldn't a Marine? :P

 

Also, that gas powered crossbow looks badass.

[Banelord]

I was thinking about this concept and I actually don't see why it's so ridiculous for them to use a longbow :P A bolter doesn't fire all that fast, and if the bow had a longer range and self propelled ammunition, it wouldn't take that long for a Space Marine to fire a shot. I mean, Legolas just pumps them out, why couldn't a Marine? :P

 

Also, that gas powered crossbow looks badass.

 

 

I don’t know about a bolter, but a modern day SA 80 has up to a range of 850 meters, with a scope, and has a rate of fire 610–775 rounds a min. I guess a bolter would be a lot better than that, so I don’t see Legolas or a marine doing better with a longbow. But it would make an excellent stealth sniper weapon for the scouts or vets operating behind enemy lines. :P

 

Edit: You could just have them priding themselves in becoming superb marksman, like Robin Hood, but only the best of them are allow to use the “Longbow”, a long range sniper weapon, which could replace the heavy/special weapon in certain squads. :P

[PyronusSouria]

Yeah, but a bolter isn't an assault rifle. The shell is much larger, and is not a bullet, but rather a complex, self propelled, auto-detonating rocket grenade :rolleyes:

[EvilToast]

Yeah, but a bolter isn't an assault rifle. The shell is much larger, and is not a bullet, but rather a complex, self propelled, auto-detonating rocket grenade :(

and a bolter rifle can rapid fire watch the Ultramarines movie or play any of the games by the time the guy pulled the arrow out knocked it and pulled the string back the marine with the bolter rifle would have riddled him with holes

[Rafen_2]

If you are so set on the bow idea use it like the Torque Bow. What I mean is instead of missle launchers have a giant automatic arrow shooter that shoots steel tipped explosives. Plus using a crossbow as a sniper would be cool. As far as knight theme goes you could make one of the shoulder pads a family heraldry or something of that nature. For rides make motorcycles that are in the shape of horses but still have both wheels. Otherwise I can't see how you would do the knight theme in a different way then everyone else did.

[lothbrok]

if you truly have your heart set on knights you could proabaly do some awesome conversions with fantasy models for a uniwue lair.

[Banelord]

Yeah, but a bolter isn't an assault rifle. The shell is much larger, and is not a bullet, but rather a complex, self propelled, auto-detonating rocket grenade :P

 

 

The point is its used the similar way as an modern day assault rifle, ^_^

 

From the 40k Wargear book, 2nd edition:

 

Bolt Guns are noisy and their effects are visibly devastating. Effective range is not great, and thus ideally suited to a shock/assault role.

 

Its not about range or even accuracy but rate of fire, which considering the marines are usually out numbered would be very useful. :P

[Sobansa]

that said nothing about rate of fire. They are psychological weapons. Noisy and if you hear it something is blowing up, perhaps you. You want to get out of the way. That is what makes them powerful assult weapons. Think similar to the staffs in SG1 that the jaffa used. There is a reason that modern military use semiautomatic or burst fire and not auto. In fact full auto would be less useful when our gunned then semiautomatic becuase you have to conserve ammo. I could see the them using a weapon like a bow flavored bolter. However, in general the army would be designed with power weapons and such for the feel of close combat. Perhaps only the long ranged units use them while the melee fighters get down and dirty? remember, historical useage was actully by commoners and not by the knights. The knights were heavy calvery and infantry. Perhaps have them as a side option that you can take with long bows while having more chain sword alternatives to the main group?

[Banelord]

There is a reason that modern military use semiautomatic or burst fire and not auto. In fact full auto would be less useful when our gunned then semiautomatic becuase you have to conserve ammo. I could see the them using a weapon like a bow flavored bolter. However, in general the army would be designed with power weapons and such for the feel of close combat.

 

 

True, but automatic fire is used also to increases kill probability. ^_^ But anyway… just because its “knights” don’t mean it has to all “hand to hand” combat, it could just be they follow a "chivalry" sort of code. You could say a Samurai is a type of knight, and they used a type of Longbows as well as swords.

[soddinnutter]

In the new Grey Knights codex is says that the Inquisition sometimes make use of crossbows to fire enchanted silver bolts, for the more difficult to kill deamon.

[PyronusSouria]

If the bolter has a short effective range, couldn't a longbow weapon with a greater range/accuracy be considered an equal weapon?

[Shinzaren]

If the bolter has a short effective range, couldn't a longbow weapon with a greater range/accuracy be considered an equal weapon?

The Bolter fires mini-rockets, each one self-propelled. The idea that they are considered short range is a little silly. While they may be on the shorter range side of the Space Marine armory, they are by no means a short ranged weapon. How you would make a longbow with greater range or accuracy is beyond me, not to mention how... odd it would look. The bow and arrow has 1 major major drawback in comparison to a gun, even assuming the bow fires the same or larger round (unlilkely). The reload speed. How on Earth would it be practical for marines to draw and fire their bow again and again as their enemies charge, rather than simply grabbing a bolter and pouring 30+ rounds in them?

 

In the new Grey Knights codex is says that the Inquisition sometimes make use of crossbows to fire enchanted silver bolts, for the more difficult to kill deamon.

Not to start a Matt Ward hate thread or derail the topic too much, but this is the same guy that says the Grey Knights can't trust each other to guard demonic artifacts, that Calgar can solo Avatars, that the best place to store the most powerful daemon weapon is on the frontlines against daemons, etc, etc. Not to diminish the associated books that these "facts" come from, but the idea that the crossbow is a better way to deploy a silver bolt than a gun is slightly ridiculous. Generally, I try to avoid siting any Matt Ward fluff as precedent, endorsed by GW though it may be.

[NightrawenII]

If the bolter has a short effective range, couldn't a longbow weapon with a greater range/accuracy be considered an equal weapon?

Well, the bow is really funny weapon, because the more you focus on accuracy the more you sacrifice the rate of fire.

 

IIRC, the "modern" longbow used in olympics is very accurate (for longbow), but the rate of fire in comparison to english(welsh) longbow is third times slower.

[Sobansa]

In reference to the longbow, someone once said, "Fast, Far, and Accurate. Pick Two."

[Commander Sasha]

In gaming terms, the Boltgun can fire once at range, twice close and not at all if you are drawing a pistol and charging.

This is perfectly compatible with a large bow, loosing two off whilst sacrificing accuracy, which matters less at short range.

 

I am a big fan off unusual themes, proxy models and alternative ideas, please run with your ideas! The worst that can happen is that your first experiments look messy when you look back on them.

 

Consider also giving Devastators bows: each arrow could be loaded with different charges, to represent the different heavy weapons. This would be a great answer to the Obliterator question to!