ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 If a general is wasting millions upon millions of soldiers that could be spent in ways better than the, "Send in the next wave!" tactic, then maybe your marines will do something about it. Why?... As a Chapter Master, you Should be more concerned with going into battle... The Imperial Guard must fight and die... So must your Space Marines... Fighting adn dieing. It is of no concern on how the Imperial Guard fight and die... That is what they do... And that is what You do... If you see other space marines treating the locals like crap (like in several stories), you might jump in, punch the marine and say, "We do not treat citizens like this!" (though, keep in mind, that might have other effects 0.0) Why? You're from a sector of space a million miles away... YOU have more in common with That Marine treating people like ;), than the :cussty people... You may not "like it" but... You're not a coddler... You're a murderer... See... I can see a Marine coming down on planet, "saving" the population, then moving on... You're a scalpel... Not a bridge-builder or a ditch digger... "Aye, I see th eTyranids have butchered you all. Let us help[ plant some agricultural fields for you!"... Have th eplanet get attacked next, then not only do you save th eplanet again, but you butcher a million citizens so as they do not, Again, forget that They are they must defend themselves... THAT I could see... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2808613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadorius Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I had an idea for a chapter with a medieval theme, where instead of bolters they use a longbow that would fire an arrow that works similarly to a bolt, and they would have knights who would have some sort of horse-type steed, either living or constructed. I'm looking for opinions on this, and whether it would ever be plausible in the universe of 40k without it being Chaos. The idea is to base them off medieval archers, not make them medieval archers. It's probably been done and I'm not as clever as I think I am, but a "chapter" of long range specialists I'd eventually like to make would be called the White Company, and it'd be based on the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle book of the same name (it's one of my favorite books). The story is about a company of longbowmen who wear white and have an orangish lion crest (which would be chapter colors and symbol). In your case, I'd do something similar (or just do that...it's not like I own the idea or anything)...base your chapter off a real or fictional group of medieval archers/soldiers that you find interesting. The group may even have interesting characters who can serve as the named characters in the chapter. The White Company is led by a man who takes a secret vow and wears an eyepatch to always remind him of his vow, and he never takes if off until he has fulfilled it. That's perfect for 40k. The other two main characters who join the company are former monks, which also makes their personalities perfectly suited to 40k. Great...now I want to read the book again... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2808620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 If a general is wasting millions upon millions of soldiers that could be spent in ways better than the, "Send in the next wave!" tactic, then maybe your marines will do something about it. Why?... As a Chapter Master, you Should be more concerned with going into battle... The Imperial Guard must fight and die... So must your Space Marines... Fighting adn dieing. It is of no concern on how the Imperial Guard fight and die... That is what they do... And that is what You do... If you see other space marines treating the locals like crap (like in several stories), you might jump in, punch the marine and say, "We do not treat citizens like this!" (though, keep in mind, that might have other effects 0.0) Why? You're from a sector of space a million miles away... YOU have more in common with That Marine treating people like :cuss, than the :cussty people... You may not "like it" but... You're not a coddler... You're a murderer... See... I can see a Marine coming down on planet, "saving" the population, then moving on... You're a scalpel... Not a bridge-builder or a ditch digger... "Aye, I see th eTyranids have butchered you all. Let us help[ plant some agricultural fields for you!"... Have th eplanet get attacked next, then not only do you save th eplanet again, but you butcher a million citizens so as they do not, Again, forget that They are they must defend themselves... THAT I could see... There are examples of Space Marines being as I had described them, however. The Sallies are an example of this, and in fact, my own chapter. Not all chapters are exactly the same. Also, the SW got pissed at the inquisition and almost had a shooting war with them because they locked up IG in interment camps after the First Armegeddon, and I'm sure in more conflicts than that the same thign happened. In fact, now they almost shoot inquisitors on sight. You may think that all SM are heartless killers, but fluff says otherwise, and I do too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2808626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I'm gonna have to agree with Telanicus on this one. And I'm not saying the marines build bridges, but maybe they use their power to requisition some resources for the people, or get them an IG regiment to help. Also, my marines would be fine with working alongside the IG, although I'm thinking of having one of my Captain equivalents be fed up with his duty. Also, if possible, I'd like them to treat any servitors they have more like people than tools. I'd rather they skip out on servitors entirely, but I don't think a chapter can work without them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I still don't see, even humanitarian Chapters like the Salamanders, as utterly pro-civilian... They may Help from time to time, but I still don't think they actively go Looking to assist... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I was just thinking about how ridiculous the original bow-and-arrow idea was that started this thread, and I thought about something I read once. If you've read "False Gods", second book in the HH series, you'll remember that when the Luna Wolves fought the Interex, they had a type of arrow and bow that was extremely effective against the Wolves. They also had warriors who sat in a bionic horse-like lower body, as if they were centaurs, and carried the bows and arrows. Just a suggestion. Anyone agree it could work for certain units, in a ceremonial bodyguard or recon or such? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I think when you read that once, it might have been earlier in this thread :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I think when you read that once, it might have been earlier in this thread :P Might have been, but I actually read that in the book ;P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 It's a fun book to read. Alrighty, another question, simple one this time. Do Chapters have IG regiments that are set to work with them? So, for example, a specific regiment of IG that is still under command of it's own commander, but works alongside a specific Chapter all the time or most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 It's a fun book to read. Alrighty, another question, simple one this time. Do Chapters have IG regiments that are set to work with them? So, for example, a specific regiment of IG that is still under command of it's own commander, but works alongside a specific Chapter all the time or most of the time. No. Never. This was what happened during the HH, and resulted in the Legions having a hell of a lot of manpower. Afterwards, the Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard, and Astartes became separate identites. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yhea, but the US Army, Navy, and Airforce are separate entities as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Yhea, but the US Army, Navy, and Airforce are separate entities as well. Yes, but they are not connected to one another, are they? Is the USAF attached permanently to the US Army, doing the Army's bidding at every tunr? That's what I mean. The Guard regiments answer to their generals, who answer to lord generals, who answer to the HLoT. Astartes answer to the Emperor. Guard does not answer to Astartes unless they are fighting for the same cause. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 You can have fighting units of chapter serfs though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Guard does not answer to Astartes unless they are fighting for the same cause. They don't answer to them, but just because a B-52 pilot does not answer to a army general does not mean that they don't have a very close working relationship. I could see a imperial guard regiment that accompany an space marine unit even though they are technically two separate entities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I think it would be more likely that the Chapter would be with the IG though. The IG are much larger, and the Astartes would be the "support" and "special action" roll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Guard does not answer to Astartes unless they are fighting for the same cause. They don't answer to them, but just because a B-52 pilot does not answer to a army general does not mean that they don't have a very close working relationship. I could see a imperial guard regiment that accompany an space marine unit even though they are technically two separate entities. Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm glad there's so many people on this thread who say what I was saying, just better ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2809954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Guard does not answer to Astartes unless they are fighting for the same cause. They don't answer to them, but just because a B-52 pilot does not answer to a army general does not mean that they don't have a very close working relationship. I could see a imperial guard regiment that accompany an space marine unit even though they are technically two separate entities. This is what happened during the HH. Astartes from each Legion were attached to IG units and formed into large Expeditions. When the Astartes in that unit turned, so did the IG units. Now, IG can operate as their own selves, without an Astartes Company or squad constantly with them. Astartes will never have control over IG, unless in a theatre of war. This is to reduce the likelyhood of IG regiments turning with a renegade Chapter. In a quote from Lexicanum, "The Imperial Army's subordination to the Astartes Legions led to the Imperial Army tearing itself apart in the Horus Heresy, when half of the legions rebelled against the Emperor, and took their Army regiments with them." I rest my case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 "The Imperial Army's subordination to the Astartes Legions led to the Imperial Army tearing itself apart in the Horus Heresy, when half of the legions rebelled against the Emperor, and took their Army regiments with them." The Guard would not be subordinate to the Chapter though. They would still be under total control of their General or Comissar or whatever, but that General would work with my Chapter Master and lead co-ordinated campaigns together. Also, if that idea of a guard regiment working with mt Chapter, what if I used one of those regiments that is, as Telanicus said on page three, "fielded entirely with pikes and swords." And bows :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The Space Marines, are superhumans who can go without food, water and sleep, and obliterate th eenemy in fast, efficient, adn brutal strikes... They are a Scalpel... The Imperial Guard destroy the enemy through attrition, big guns, and slogging it out... They are a Bludgeon... Neither complements th eother... You have two Entirely different styles of war: The swift, and brutal, the slow and gridning... As a Space Marine Chapter, you're not going to have "legions of followers", be they Chapter serfs, or armed guys with guns... Now, I could see a Captain of the Company considering his personal Company his own personal retinue... Also... You're straying into the "Hey that's cool" and not the "Hey that's interesting" stuff... Stop foisting Things on your Chapter, take a break, and work on their character... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Chaplain is right here, they are two differant wars, and SM do not have legions of followers. Like I said, you can make use of your serfs, but they wont be numerous enough to send into combat (especially with pikes) in number. Probably no more than an IG Companies worth. Now, you could make your homeworld produce those regiments, but those aren't the focus of the story, and I wouldn't delve into that. As he said, just work on the character right now. You can worry about the rest later :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I am working on the chapter, this is just a thread where I toss out odd ideas :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I rest my case. I was not disputing your case. You are correct. My point is that even though there are no shared links in the chain of command, they still will help one another more often then not. Someone mentioned them being the difference between a bat and a scalpel. I don't think that is a unfair comparison. However, when it comes to war you need both a bat to hold back the main forces and a scalpel to do needed detail work. While they might not work together in surgery or a base ball game, war needs both types. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 they still will help one another more often then not. If you, as an Imperial Guard General, see the Space Marines coming... :tu: has rapidly spiraled out of anything even remotely close to your control... Things are Bad... Like B.a.d... Bad. However, when it comes to war you need both a bat to hold back the main forces and a scalpel to do needed detail work. In a perfect world, you'd have entire Armies composed of Imperial Guard, with Navy and Astartes support... But... That was a loooooong time ago... Your resources don't allow for that... For every 10,000 Guardsmen, there is 1 Marine... To "you", the average Imperial Joe, Space Marines are little more than stories about "the Angels of Death" swooping in adn butchering the enemy before leaving... You can more readily rely on the Guard for "ho-hum" things... A Tyranid Splinter fleet... Toss in the Guard... The world Rebellious IV is rebelling... Again!? Toss in the Guard... There's a gigantic Ork Waaaaagh, the likes of which a sector of space has never seen in centuries coming your way, and is being led by one of the most cunning and vicious Ork War Lords that has existed so far?... Request some Marine support because crap is about to hit the fan... In fact, said crap has been tossed up, and is about to be in the process of hitting said fan... It'd be cool to kind of have them recruit from a specific area of their planet... That way, each Company would have their own "retinue" feel... Ala, 'I trust that Captain Xavius... He's from North Town... And leads our 3rd Company... However, ya can't trust those shifty South Towners in 4th Company... ' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Rathul Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I had an idea for a chapter with a medieval theme, where instead of bolters they use a longbow that would fire an arrow that works similarly to a bolt, and they would have knights who would have some sort of horse-type steed, either living or constructed. I'm looking for opinions on this, and whether it would ever be plausible in the universe of 40k without it being Chaos. The idea is to base them off medieval archers, not make them medieval archers. It's probably been done and I'm not as clever as I think I am, but a "chapter" of long range specialists I'd eventually like to make would be called the White Company, and it'd be based on the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle book of the same name (it's one of my favorite books). The story is about a company of longbowmen who wear white and have an orangish lion crest (which would be chapter colors and symbol). In your case, I'd do something similar (or just do that...it's not like I own the idea or anything)...base your chapter off a real or fictional group of medieval archers/soldiers that you find interesting. The group may even have interesting characters who can serve as the named characters in the chapter. The White Company is led by a man who takes a secret vow and wears an eyepatch to always remind him of his vow, and he never takes if off until he has fulfilled it. That's perfect for 40k. The other two main characters who join the company are former monks, which also makes their personalities perfectly suited to 40k. Great...now I want to read the book again... Essentialy this. I believe there was a battle between England and France in Agincourt (Medieval time frame) where the English were outnumbered 10:1 knight wise and had a small contingent of archers. When the French knights attacked, their armor was piereced by a special needle shaped arrow head the English developed, and if the French knights got to close, the archers would gang up on the knight and stab him with their knives and trinkets. Your marines could be trained exceptionally at long range fighting, but when it comes to close combat, they're poor and fight dirty. Or, you can have them be like Legolas from LOTR and kill absolutely everything both ways. Hope this helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yes, definately what they said on the range thing. Another thing about Agincourt though, was that the English were unified, and the Knights were all like, "Yeah, I'm a knight, but you are too, so I don't report to you." I know it was more complicated than that, but that gets the gist of it. But yes, the English Long Bowmen decimated the knights... who even got behind them. Lesson to be learned? When you have an army armed with Las Cannons (which can be your chapters favored weapon, as it is accurate, and as piercing as the bows of their world) will beat those silly Fre-..edom loving cultists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232761-opinionsideas/page/4/#findComment-2810505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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