Mobile fire support

[Leonaides]

apart from those games where your assault squads cant dominate the short game... And if i remember from above, you were thinking of keeping your ras back in your deployment zone until yr vanguard arrive- sitting back under fire for potentially 3 turns and still being 2 turns away from any combat. Which would be a good way to lose just about any game. You also dismissed speeders far too early. Bearing in mind that there is only a max of 35" between the front of your deployment zone and the furthest back an enemy infantry model could deploy, if you really have to charge further than that to get to the closest model your deployment was incredibly bad. Also- to rule out a heavy bolter with a 36" range when a speeder can move 6" and fire to full effect, giving an effective range of 42", as well as the missiles, you could be putting out from 3 speeders 18 hb shots and 12 frag or krak shots in the time it takes for your vanguard to even arrive (2 turns of shooting). Sorry for being disjointed but am on my phone, hope that gives you some more to think about.

[Brother_Byhlli]

apart from those games where your assault squads cant dominate the short game... And if i remember from above, you were thinking of keeping your ras back in your deployment zone until yr vanguard arrive- sitting back under fire for potentially 3 turns and still being 2 turns away from any combat. Which would be a good way to lose just about any game. You also dismissed speeders far too early. Bearing in mind that there is only a max of 35" between the front of your deployment zone and the furthest back an enemy infantry model could deploy, if you really have to charge further than that to get to the closest model your deployment was incredibly bad. Also- to rule out a heavy bolter with a 36" range when a speeder can move 6" and fire to full effect, giving an effective range of 42", as well as the missiles, you could be putting out from 3 speeders 18 hb shots and 12 frag or krak shots in the time it takes for your vanguard to even arrive (2 turns of shooting). Sorry for being disjointed but am on my phone, hope that gives you some more to think about.

 

This is positive feedback. I'm delighted by the response this thread has generated. There are a lot of genuinely tactically-minded players on this site and I'm learning so much from you all. Thanks for bearing with me!

 

I would never sit my Assault Squads on their hineys if they were being shot at. I honestly get upset when I lose models. This is why I play Space Marines - these guys do a damn good job of being not dead. And I'm an extremely cautious and defensive player by nature, which makes my Blood Angels armies almost guaranteed to play a bit less gung-ho than my opponent expects. I protect my troops as much as possible and I am happy to wait in a secure defensive position and wait for the right opportunity to strike.

 

You make excellent arguments in favour of Land Speeders and, as with the other units that have been mentioned earlier, I'm now forced to put very careful thought into units that I had - with hindsight, which is always 20/20 - discounted far too quickly. You have all taught me a valuable lesson through this thread that will hopefully help develop me into a more rounded player.

 

I didn't mean earlier to sound like I knew everything, or even to sound like I thought I knew everything. But I will always form very strong opinions given careful consideration of almost anything. The fact that you have all managed to convince me to rethink my official line just goes to show how much you all have to teach me!

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Keep it coming!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Part of what makes the heavy bolter / Typhoon speeder so good is its ability to plaster infantry by moving 12" firing its heavy bolter , and two frag templates as defensive weapons.

 

Im not saying HB/Typhoon is bad. I just prefer the HF to the HB because the HF gives you more options and a heck of a kick. I suppose that is partly my thinking that I wont typically be firing off alot of small blasts though either. Remember Im thinking Vs. Marines where you will want those Kraks most of the time an so the HB and the HF will not be firing.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

Interesting that you use them regularly, though. Can I ask how they tend to fare? Presumably if you're using them fairly often, they're doing a good job for you. How do you kit them out? What do they tend to do when they arrive?

 

Bearing in mind I generally play in larger games than you're talking. I've got enough models painted as Vanguards that I could run them a few different ways. Normally I run them at 245pts 5 man units with PW, LC/SS, PF/SS. They tend to treat me really well (only mishapped once or twice). I'll hit them against whatever seems to the the imminent threat for the rest of my army. With that kit they can hold their own against most opponents for the first round of CC but not destroy their target. Though they do have an odd tendency to Sweeping Advance their first target and getting shot anyway. However, having a priest or novitiate nearby and the 2 SS in the unit keeps them alive and useful.

 

If I'm feeling ambitious I sometimes run a unit with just 2 PW against basic infantry units if I don't see them as a threat. Blobs of Guardsmen (provided there are no hidden PWs in the blob) and large units of gaunts tend to be these units targets as the CC will block a lot of LoS.

 

The most I've ran at one time was 2 ten man units combat squaded during a 2500 pt game. It was amusing to see the look on my opponents face when I got both in on turn 2 and hit 2 units of long fangs with the lighter combat squads and a unit of wolf guard that had Blackmane with the 2 tooled up combat squads.

 

Hope this helps you determine how you want to kit them out. I would suggest eventually building to 2 full units of 10 with varying kit, not to run at one time necessarily, just to have options.

 

-Samirus

[Corby]

Part of what makes the heavy bolter / Typhoon speeder so good is its ability to plaster infantry by moving 12" firing its heavy bolter , and two frag templates as defensive weapons.

 

Im not saying HB/Typhoon is bad. I just prefer the HF to the HB because the HF gives you more options and a heck of a kick. I suppose that is partly my thinking that I wont typically be firing off alot of small blasts though either. Remember Im thinking Vs. Marines where you will want those Kraks most of the time an so the HB and the HF will not be firing.

 

If you're moving speeders into point blank range to fire your heavy flamer you're exposing yourself to meltafire the following turn so you're loosing your speeder in the hope you cause a few wounds on meq with a 3+ armour save , why won't the heavy bolter be firing all the time? I can move six inches and fire 3 S5 shots as well as 2 S8 shots at mech or I can move 12 inches and either fire 2 S8 shots or 3 S5 shots and 2 S4 blasts as defensive weapons. By placing a heavy flamer on a landspeeder with a typhoon missle launcher you're wasting the advantage you payed for by giving the speeder conflicting roles in your army.

[daboarder]

Hey, brothers!

 

I played a couple of games today and realised fairly quickly that I'm lacking in any kind of long-range fire support for my Assault Squads.

 

Here's the rub: there are plenty of long-range fire support options, but none of them fit with a mobile jump infantry army.

 

So, the question: if you had to pick a long-range fire support unit for a mobile jump infantry army, what would it be and why?

 

 

Landspeeder

Stormraven

Honor guard

 

3 fire support choices right there that fit jump armies.

[Corby]

Hey, brothers!

 

I played a couple of games today and realised fairly quickly that I'm lacking in any kind of long-range fire support for my Assault Squads.

 

Here's the rub: there are plenty of long-range fire support options, but none of them fit with a mobile jump infantry army.

 

So, the question: if you had to pick a long-range fire support unit for a mobile jump infantry army, what would it be and why?

 

 

Landspeeder

Stormraven

Honor guard

 

3 fire support choices right there that fit jump armies.

 

 

A Stormraven is not a long ranged fire support unit. If you're buying a stormraven , you're buying it to stick some assaulting units and a dreadnought into it for a double punch to your opponent. If you're sticking the stormraven in your back field and trying to shoot at mech with its missles , its a terrible tactic and you'll lose it during your opponents first shooting phase. Stormravens fly into your opponents face , deliver assault death , maybe fire off one or two multi-melta shots , maybe pop a transport and then they die. A stormraven needs its cover save at all times otherwise its a flying wreck if your opponent is a competent player. Playing with stormravens means you've to accept that they're usually gaurenteed to die the moment you slow down to get your units out.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Part of what makes the heavy bolter / Typhoon speeder so good is its ability to plaster infantry by moving 12" firing its heavy bolter , and two frag templates as defensive weapons.

 

Im not saying HB/Typhoon is bad. I just prefer the HF to the HB because the HF gives you more options and a heck of a kick. I suppose that is partly my thinking that I wont typically be firing off alot of small blasts though either. Remember Im thinking Vs. Marines where you will want those Kraks most of the time an so the HB and the HF will not be firing.

 

If you're moving speeders into point blank range to fire your heavy flamer you're exposing yourself to meltafire the following turn so you're loosing your speeder in the hope you cause a few wounds on meq with a 3+ armour save , why won't the heavy bolter be firing all the time? I can move six inches and fire 3 S5 shots as well as 2 S8 shots at mech or I can move 12 inches and either fire 2 S8 shots or 3 S5 shots and 2 S4 blasts as defensive weapons. By placing a heavy flamer on a landspeeder with a typhoon missle launcher you're wasting the advantage you payed for by giving the speeder conflicting roles in your army.

 

 

3 Key elements I see to this from a usage standpoint.

 

In a Jump Packer army I see three key elements to the Speeders role:

 

-Long Ranged Anti tank.

 

here the HB has very limited benefit over the HF I cant deny that.

 

-General Harassement

 

here the HB isnt bad if you want to start trying to smack hordes around but the Flamer gives you a last trump card for burn and clear duty.

 

The HF also comes into more use in this role because the Speeder often times will be most useful buzzing about through the main combatant area distracting fire and putting itself in between charges and such. If it takes a melta in the face thats sad but acceptable. It needs to be moving 12" A turn in this roll so that jumping on it in the assault is considerably harder. I see this as being the main role of the speeder in an army like this. It fires its Kraks as it goes in then jumps in and starts pushing people around till they get frustrated stop and put some fire power into it.

 

-Sit back and shoot.

 

This is where the HB is the best. Far far better then the HF I cant deny that one tiny iota. Its just not where a this sort of army could use a speeder like this. If its sitting back and pegging away at things its not living up to its potential. You might not lose it but you arent getting a whole lot from it either.

 

 

Remember jump pack heavy lacks 2 big things.

 

Long range anti tank. (because they have plenty of wicked short range anti tank and anti infantry.)

Cock blocking units (rhinos and the like that you can normally use to push people around one way or another)

 

The HF/Typhoon is the best at this transfer you get the chance to pop a rhino or two. Then you transition into being a jerk with the HF. Then you probably lose it.

[Volcatus]

I'm a fan of Devastator squads in DoA lists, so I'll pitch in some additional support for them.

 

The 5 man, 4 missile launcher unit costs 130 points, 440 for three units plus a Priest to boost their resilience. They are effective against hordes and armour that isn't AV14 (Your RAS is for popping higher AV). Don't underestimate their effectiveness by comparing apples to oranges, Devs to VV. They have different roles in a BA force which follows the motto: "Shoot the enemy's assault units, assault the enemy's shooting units." The obvious solution is to use both. Your Devs stun/wreck vehicles and enemy Death Stars, your VV drop in and handle pesky shooting units, such as Long Fangs and Broadsides.

[JamesI]

I'm a fan of Devastator squads in DoA lists, so I'll pitch in some additional support for them.

 

The 5 man, 4 missile launcher unit costs 130 points, 440 for three units plus a Priest to boost their resilience. They are effective against hordes and armour that isn't AV14 (Your RAS is for popping higher AV). Don't underestimate their effectiveness by comparing apples to oranges, Devs to VV. They have different roles in a BA force which follows the motto: "Shoot the enemy's assault units, assault the enemy's shooting units." The obvious solution is to use both. Your Devs stun/wreck vehicles and enemy Death Stars, your VV drop in and handle pesky shooting units, such as Long Fangs and Broadsides.

Agreed.

 

Devs are a nice unit in a jumpy list. I run 2 units of devs and 2 units of attack bikes to support my horde of jumpers.

[JMac]

Hey, brothers!

 

I played a couple of games today and realised fairly quickly that I'm lacking in any kind of long-range fire support for my Assault Squads.

 

Here's the rub: there are plenty of long-range fire support options, but none of them fit with a mobile jump infantry army.

 

So, the question: if you had to pick a long-range fire support unit for a mobile jump infantry army, what would it be and why?

 

 

Landspeeder

Stormraven

Honor guard

 

3 fire support choices right there that fit jump armies.

 

 

A Stormraven is not a long ranged fire support unit. If you're buying a stormraven , you're buying it to stick some assaulting units and a dreadnought into it for a double punch to your opponent. If you're sticking the stormraven in your back field and trying to shoot at mech with its missles , its a terrible tactic and you'll lose it during your opponents first shooting phase. Stormravens fly into your opponents face , deliver assault death , maybe fire off one or two multi-melta shots , maybe pop a transport and then they die. A stormraven needs its cover save at all times otherwise its a flying wreck if your opponent is a competent player. Playing with stormravens means you've to accept that they're usually gaurenteed to die the moment you slow down to get your units out.

 

I'm not sure I completely agree with this statement. Stomravens own the longest range weapon we have, Bloodstrike missile. I play by, if you can outrange your opponent, then you better take advantage of it.

 

In a spearhead deployment, if set up the Stormraven in the very back corner, its going to be quite hard to reach (not impossible though).

 

However Corby, you are right its general purpose is to speed up, unload, and survive if possible; but I do think that it does have its rights flying around the back field in some scenarios that call for it.

[Ash]

Hey, brothers!

 

I played a couple of games today and realised fairly quickly that I'm lacking in any kind of long-range fire support for my Assault Squads.

 

Here's the rub: there are plenty of long-range fire support options, but none of them fit with a mobile jump infantry army.

 

So, the question: if you had to pick a long-range fire support unit for a mobile jump infantry army, what would it be and why?

 

 

Vanguard Vets

Stormravens

 

Take your pick

That or land speeders

 

I am building a Stormraven. I have picked the Stormraven, why? The Stormraven is a BA troop delivery system true but it can also shoot one weapon up to 12"or even 24"at anytime after it has moved 24" with POTMS, thats a 36 inch range.

Now correct me if I am wrong the Storm raven can get off 4 blood strikes as each is a seperate weapon? Starting on the board not moving it might be usefull as an alpha strike.

 

What I am saying is do not discount the Stormraven outright, in can provide long range up to 60" shooting or move closer. Most long range weapons are what? 36" to 48"

 

As another option not mentioned here what about Whirlwinds? Its not mobile but you want out of LOS support that throws pie plates ? look no further.

If you really wanted to play shooty static against soft targets or bubble wrap, use a whirlwind inside a piece of wreckage out of LOS or with a tech marine and bolster defence. Thats a 3+ cover save and it throws a pie plate that ignores cover.

Its 48" range will really cause a horde guy some trouble and give him a headache. Clump and burn or disperse and get clobbered by the assaulters? If the enemy cant shoot because its out of LOS they have to assault it and thats great for counter charging.

 

I don't want one now but I ran whirlwinds in my DA army and they lasted a lot longer than people thought. They always burnt their points back and more.

[Corby]

Hey, brothers!

 

I played a couple of games today and realised fairly quickly that I'm lacking in any kind of long-range fire support for my Assault Squads.

 

Here's the rub: there are plenty of long-range fire support options, but none of them fit with a mobile jump infantry army.

 

So, the question: if you had to pick a long-range fire support unit for a mobile jump infantry army, what would it be and why?

 

 

Landspeeder

Stormraven

Honor guard

 

3 fire support choices right there that fit jump armies.

 

 

A Stormraven is not a long ranged fire support unit. If you're buying a stormraven , you're buying it to stick some assaulting units and a dreadnought into it for a double punch to your opponent. If you're sticking the stormraven in your back field and trying to shoot at mech with its missles , its a terrible tactic and you'll lose it during your opponents first shooting phase. Stormravens fly into your opponents face , deliver assault death , maybe fire off one or two multi-melta shots , maybe pop a transport and then they die. A stormraven needs its cover save at all times otherwise its a flying wreck if your opponent is a competent player. Playing with stormravens means you've to accept that they're usually gaurenteed to die the moment you slow down to get your units out.

 

I'm not sure I completely agree with this statement. Stomravens own the longest range weapon we have, Bloodstrike missile. I play by, if you can outrange your opponent, then you better take advantage of it.

 

In a spearhead deployment, if set up the Stormraven in the very back corner, its going to be quite hard to reach (not impossible though).

 

However Corby, you are right its general purpose is to speed up, unload, and survive if possible; but I do think that it does have its rights flying around the back field in some scenarios that call for it.

 

If you've bought a stormraven , you've a tooled up combat unit inside it to wreck face so why would you waste it on your backfield? just because you've four bloodstrike missles that have the longest range of any weapon in our arsenal doesns't justify using the stormraven to sit back and shoot four one shot missles at the opponent. Its a waste of points for what the stormraven really should be doing (in your opponents face.) and does well.

Its fragile and easy to kill with any sort of high strength weapon.

Its far too big a target for sitting back and shooting with unless all your opponents ranged threats are dead. ( this only really occurs very late in the game and withsitting back with potentially 200-500 points of your army plicking away with one shot missles this is even more unlikely).

 

If you want a unit that can sit back and shoot from your backfield , use the autocannon/lascannon predator , its easier to hide , has a higher frontal armour value and is cheaper for what it does.

[Corby]

Vanguard Vets

Stormravens

 

Take your pick

That or land speeders

 

I am building a Stormraven. I have picked the Stormraven, why? The Stormraven is a BA troop delivery system true but it can also shoot one weapon up to 12"or even 24"at anytime after it has moved 24" with POTMS, thats a 36 inch range.

Now correct me if I am wrong the Storm raven can get off 4 blood strikes as each is a seperate weapon? Starting on the board not moving it might be usefull as an alpha strike.

 

What I am saying is do not discount the Stormraven outright, in can provide long range up to 60" shooting or move closer. Most long range weapons are what? 36" to 48"

 

As another option not mentioned here what about Whirlwinds? Its not mobile but you want out of LOS support that throws pie plates ? look no further.

If you really wanted to play shooty static against soft targets or bubble wrap, use a whirlwind inside a piece of wreckage out of LOS or with a tech marine and bolster defence. Thats a 3+ cover save and it throws a pie plate that ignores cover.

Its 48" range will really cause a horde guy some trouble and give him a headache. Clump and burn or disperse and get clobbered by the assaulters? If the enemy cant shoot because its out of LOS they have to assault it and thats great for counter charging.

 

I don't want one now but I ran whirlwinds in my DA army and they lasted a lot longer than people thought. They always burnt their points back and more.

 

 

This only works if you've the first turn. Building lists around getting the first turn for such things makes for flawed list building as you won't always get the first turn , if you come on from reserve you've to move over 6 inches due to a Gw faq stating any unit which can't move onto the table completely is destroyed ( you don't measure a stormravens movement from its base ,the stormraven raven is still moved like you would a normal vehicle) so coming on from reserve means this plan of firing off loads of missles doesn't work. If you want stormravens , by all means go for them , they're a great unit and offer very interesting tactical possibilities , use them the way they should be though , in your opponents face harassing them.

[Ash]

I am quite sure I will be able to find more creative ways to use a Stormraven beyond parking it up on first turn and shooting :drool:

[JMac]

If you've bought a stormraven , you've a tooled up combat unit inside it to wreck face so why would you waste it on your backfield? just because you've four bloodstrike missles that have the longest range of any weapon in our arsenal doesns't justify using the stormraven to sit back and shoot four one shot missles at the opponent. Its a waste of points for what the stormraven really should be doing (in your opponents face.) and does well.

Its fragile and easy to kill with any sort of high strength weapon.

Its far too big a target for sitting back and shooting with unless all your opponents ranged threats are dead. ( this only really occurs very late in the game and withsitting back with potentially 200-500 points of your army plicking away with one shot missles this is even more unlikely).

 

If you want a unit that can sit back and shoot from your backfield , use the autocannon/lascannon predator , its easier to hide , has a higher frontal armour value and is cheaper for what it does.

 

Again, I don't completely agree with this statement. Yes Corby, that is one tactic (a very good one at that), but one could very easily argue that 200+ pts is too much to spend for a sacrificial unit.

 

I have heard people, and myself, use a Stormraven with a RAS in it (not a unit to wreck face) with Lascannon and outrange my opponent. Yeah it is low armor, but if you keep it far enough away, only a handful of weapons can actually reach and damage it. Now, if that handful can reach it, move it at least 18" gain that 4+ save, and hope for the best. Late in the game, deliver that RAS onto an objective. On top of this, a tactic I've never seen tried or heard of, you could put a fire support dread in the back and drop him into position of where you need him. (Again, I've never heard of this but it is something I have thought about.)

 

Given this tactic is as good against certain armies, such as Space Wolves, IG, and Tau, it is viable against others; Orks, Nids, and most power armor armies.

 

Corby, I'm not disagreeing with your tactic as its an awesome one and very reliable. I do believe that Stormravens can be used as mobile fire support.

[Black Memories]

Those are nice tactics but really just a way of beating around the bush that corby is growing. That being by using those tactics I think your greatest and sole strength is it's an unorthodox tactic and thus will distract your opponent. I almost wholly disagree with the tactic in general. Corby is 100% correct that in a fire support role an auto/las (or triple las, which is what I prefer) is better firepower over the course of a game than a stormraven. It's also cheaper. Keep in mind that at that 48 inch range unless you're typhooning the front (again something I disagree with) then I don't see where you're gaining extra firepower from. Any other weapon in the front will result in an inability to fire from 48 inches.

 

Essentially with your RAS tactic you're using a 215 point model that excels at heavy armor killing, MC killing, assault and dreadnought transportation (only thing in the game that can), objective capturing, tank shocking, etc. You're using that to sit back and plink away with a TLLC shot from long range. That's fine, but I do that with my 5 man assault squad in a TLLC razorback and that's 155 points for the whole group. They're small profile and almost never shot with a LR, vindi, or stormraven on the table at the same time.

 

I get your point but literally every other main fire support option does a better job of static long range firepower than a stormraven, i whole heartedly agree with corby that there is truly one way to use a raven, and that's transport first. Once that's done it's open season. But those troops must be delivered.

 

215 points isn't so bad for a suicide unit considering people love vindis and they're a much better suicide unit/distract than they actually are a useful piece of a equipment. Plus when a vindi goes that's pretty much it. When a stormraven pops, here come the angry hornets when are more than capable of steam rolling most opposing forces.

[Corby]

I am quite sure I will be able to find more creative ways to use a Stormraven beyond parking it up on first turn and shooting :(

 

 

Again, I don't completely agree with this statement. Yes Corby, that is one tactic (a very good one at that), but one could very easily argue that 200+ pts is too much to spend for a sacrificial unit.

 

I have heard people, and myself, use a Stormraven with a RAS in it (not a unit to wreck face) with Lascannon and outrange my opponent. Yeah it is low armor, but if you keep it far enough away, only a handful of weapons can actually reach and damage it. Now, if that handful can reach it, move it at least 18" gain that 4+ save, and hope for the best. Late in the game, deliver that RAS onto an objective. On top of this, a tactic I've never seen tried or heard of, you could put a fire support dread in the back and drop him into position of where you need him. (Again, I've never heard of this but it is something I have thought about.)

 

Given this tactic is as good against certain armies, such as Space Wolves, IG, and Tau, it is viable against others; Orks, Nids, and most power armor armies.

 

Corby, I'm not disagreeing with your tactic as its an awesome one and very reliable. I do believe that Stormravens can be used as mobile fire support.

 

Once again , there are cheaper and more viable alternatives to what you're suggesting , as black memories pointed out you can get a regular assault squad in a lascannon razorback for fire support , an autocannon/lascannon predator and a assault squad in a lascannon razorback are cheaper points wise than the regular assault squad and stormraven combo you're suggesting , you also get more shots , can get cover far more easily and have better target saturation than you would with the stormraven.

[SirDuck13]

I play a pair of Stormravens at 2k and I have had great success with them, but I play a strange list.

 

I use a drop pod Furioso librarian to come in first turn and draw fire as it parks as close to the enemy as I can get it. While it's soaking up fire and wreaking havoc in the enemy's backfield, I move my 'Ravens along to get good position and a cover save and try to sneak in a missile into side armor. After the first turn, I streak them in and deliver the payload of the other pair of dreads. I've found this tactic is great for getting your units where they need to be and causing some damage along the way.

 

My list at 2k is

3 assault squads with a mg, pf.

3 priests with jump packs and pw

Captain - jump pack, thunder hammer.

2 Stormravens - base with hb sponsons

furioso Librarian - Blood Lance, Drop pod

furioso dread - base

Dread - hf.

 

At least that's what I remember of it. I haven't played in awhile.

 

Basically, I've found that if I engage the enemy from turn 1 with the drop pod, they tend to be to out of position and easy prey for the 3 assault squads that are chasing the ravens. Not to mention the other two dreads. Typically once the RAS are in position, I find it easy to find targets for the AC/Hb/Sponsons. Especially if my missiles did their jobs and popped a few transports on the way in. I hope that helps give another tactical solution to your problem, even if it's not really offering long range fire power so much as it is offering a way to go without it. Just my couple of pennies worth.

 

SD13

[skawolf]

Landspeeders

honourguard with jump packs 4x special weapons.

[JMac]

Cheaper and more viable, yes. Less flexible too. I am not conferring to take a Stormraven solely as a fire support unit, I am simply implying that there are other roles for the Stormraven. You can still tool it up to put an assaulty unit inside, but still use it as mobile fire support.

[I am Legion]

You all have very good points. You've all listed the main options to counter heavy support. I or my friend have used every variation that was described here multiple times, each time against a differant army.

 

in 1500 point games I've found that a pair of devs work fairly well with 3 lascannons. You simply cant fit any more in. VVs have literally made a massive differance for me in a few games, I recall a squad of VVs armed with nothing, deep strike and charge 3 broadsides, hold them for 3 turns, which really helped the rest of my army move up. MM attack bikes are always great, unfortunetly they occupy the same space as my favourite all-rounder tank; The Baal Pred (AC & HB). I take 3 in every game that I can. One will die by the end of the game but the other two will fight till the bitter end. Actually I even had a few games with Baal preds and annhilators, or at least the lascan sponsons on 2 more tanks. So 5 tanks at 705 points. They move up with my anti-horde, and anti- armour RAS. I use one squad of honour guard with PGs. These fill a great role to deal with a variaty of things. (Nobs on bikes come to mind). I have lately been using a librarian with Blood Lance, which is a great way to kill a variety of things. The update really ruined a beautiful thing they had going but whatever. The last unit is the storm raven. Haven't used it all that much (3-4 games, between my friend and I), but they certainly can hold their own! I am truly in love with this unit in game terms. A very versatile unit, but you have to pay alot for it. All in all I found after alot of playtesting is that there are simply too many options. They all do a similar job. It just depends if they fit into your playstyle. I know it's not a great answer. But I would need to see your list, and understand what you want to accomplish in a game before I can help further.

[daboarder]

If you drop 30+ FC/FNP RAS in front of an enemy with 6+ melta gins they've got FAR more to worry about than shooting down speeders and Stormraven's if the ravens fly on from reserve you should be using their missiles to alpha strike the hell out of the enemy allowing them to fly around with impunity.

[dekyr]

In all the suggestions for Dev squads, noone has mentionned taking PC's instead of missile launchers. They are 20pts more and potentially pack a bigger punch. They require a priest to ensure resilience but well worth it. While I understand this point maybe counter by the fact it's a jump army, you could turn the PC's on MEQ's who won't get saves or4 templates to take out hordes while not having to choose which option to choose incase there are special characters, and you can take out mech up to AR13 . Let your power fists take care of LR's. Plus LR's will provide excellent cover while you strategize you next target.

 

Like others said. Don't underestimate Dev squads in a jump army.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Just a picky-detail: if the plasma cannons need a priest to be safe, they cost 70 points more; not 20.

 

It's a valid point, though. I'm am definitely considering Devastator Squads for my army.