Vehicles shooting template weapons (eg flamers)

[Valravn]

We have a really weird discussion at our club (well, at least I think it is very weird), and there is no Games Workshop representatives where I live, so some assistance needed.

 

The discussion is about shooting template weapons from vehicles, e.g. flamestorm cannons from Land Rider Redeemer.

 

Argument 1 - When firing flame template weapon the narrow edge must be placed in contact with the base of the model. In the case of vehicle, it base is its hull, and therefore the template must be placed anywhere on the models hull.

 

Argument 2 - All weapons, including flamers, must be fired from the weapons muzzle.

 

(In both cases we mean the actual sponsons, not models firing through fire points)

 

I personally think that firing a flamer from a vehicle's tracks is ridiculous and silly, although there are several very experienced players who claim that that is the way it is done. I'm not going to quote the whole discussion, for it is very long and conducted in Russian. I guess it is hardly possible to get the official statement from Games Workshop, so could you please tell how you do it where you play?

[Seahawk]

Argument 1 is non-existent. A vehicle's hull is not it's base; if it doesn't have one, how could you measure from it?

 

Argument 2 overrides any previous printed rules, including those about measuring from the vehicle's "base." When firing weapons, you measure from the guns themselves, simple as that, including template weapons.

[dswanick]

I personally think that firing a flamer from a vehicle's tracks is ridiculous and silly, although there are several very experienced players who claim that that is the way it is done. I'm not going to quote the whole discussion, for it is very long and conducted in Russian. I guess it is hardly possible to get the official statement from Games Workshop, so could you please tell how you do it where you play?

This is the RAW in a vacuum correct way to play it - the template must start at some part of the hull, not necessarily the weapon tip. But then again, Raw in a vacuum doesn't tell us to read the dice from the top face either...

Every opponent I've ever faced has placed the flamer template at the tip of the vehicles weapon.

[nurglez]

as you measure range and line of sight from the weapon, it would make sense to fire the template from the weapon barrel, and is how I use my landraider redeemer.

[Legatus]

"As vehicles do not usually have a base, the normal rules for measuring distances to or from the base cannot be used. (...)

When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon, whilst line of sight is determined from the weapon's mounting point along its barrel (as explained later)."

(BRB, p. 56)

 

It seems to be obvious how template weapons are resolved, but unfortunately the rules do not specifically say "place the template touching the weapon's muzzle, instead of touching the vehicle's non-existant base", so I guess there is no way to convince some people.

 

However the two notable things established in that description are:

 

- vehicle's do not usually have a base

 

and

 

- weapon ranges from vehicles are measured from the weapon muzzle, not from it's base or hull

 

Players should be able to apply that to template weapons in a sensible way.

 

 

Edit: Typos.

[Isiah]

Agreed. Legatus sums it up pretty well.

[thade]

Agreed. Legatus sums it up pretty well.

^This.

 

Bases come in the box. They have a textured top and a smooth rim. Infantry and MCs get round ones. Bikes get squares. The only vehicles I've seen that get bases are Dreadnoughts (the walker section addresses this though - you measure from their weapon mounts) and Valkryies/Storm Ravens. Those bases are smaller, so point that out to your Land Raider shenani-players next time they have to decide if they want to flamer from the nose of their LR or fire those TL-MMs from the ground for that sky-born (and much larger than it's base) model. ;)

 

EDIT: It just occurred to me how stupid broken this is. If you were allowed to place the Flamestorm Cannon templates from anywhere on the tank (as if it were its own base) you could just place them on top of one another and stack them. You could always fire them (which is part of the limitation of those tanks...that you can't stack the flamers on units). Pretty funny.

[MagicMan]

Would make the whole sponson limited fire arc, redundant.

[Excessus]

Measuring from the muzzle is a reason why people generally think the TL Heavy Flamer is crap on the defiler, since you loose half the range because of the legs...

[thade]

I'm reading through the BRB word-for-word again (as it's been over a year since I've slogged through it that way) and there is definitely a section about bases in the beginning. Refer your opponents to that. ;) And then the vehicle section.

 

I really hope they aren't stacking flamestorm templates from a single LRR.