Devastators

[nurglephill]

Hello, I have a question.

 

I have been wondering about devastator squads and what weapons to take and why. Personally I adore the missile launchers and in my evil army I have 4 in my Havoc squads.

 

But C:SM lets you combat squad, and you also get to have heavy plasma....which is fricken cool in pretty much every way.

 

Back to the point. Sorry.

 

What do you guys think of running a ten man dev squad with two different heavy weapon types like two missile launcher/heavy bolters (personally I think you need at least three or four in a squad to make this gun work well) and then two las cannons spliting the combat squads each carrying the different heavy weapon type and therefore able to pick out their specific target of choice.

 

I have seen in the past three missile launchers and one las cannon with the las put in with the sargeant to gain the extra BS etc but I have never seen a dev squad split this way. In my mind it seems to offer a fairly cheap way to get two elite units that can dish out a nasty round or two of firing and the heavy weapons have three extra wounds to keep them alive longer. But as I said I have never seen a list with this in it let alone seen it used in battle. Which makes me think I am missing something and there is a reason why it wont work.

 

Thoughts? Good Idea, bad?

[Koremu]

The conventional wisdom is that Devastator Squads are overpriced for what they do. This is especially true with the more expensive Heavy Weapons. It's borne out by the fact that GW dropped the price of Heavy Weapons for the BA Devastator Squad.

 

Assuming you can find an opponent who will permit you to use the BA weapon prices, or you use the BA codex... they are still not great. Because Dawn of War scenarios are so inimical to non-Troops infantry units (especially those with Heavy Weapons), the Devastators suffer mightily in comparison with other, more mobile Heavy Weapon platforms such as Land Speeders in the SM list.

 

Unless you can guarantee that you are not going to have to deploy in a DoW scenario, Devastators lose out to mobile platforms. Even when you can (for example, fighting the All-Round Defense scenario), you still need a great position and/or some additional defense for them.

 

However, if you can guarantee that, a Devastator squad in Bolstered ruins with a nearby Sanguinary Priest is a PITA to shift.

 

 

So, overall (and without even considering weapon specific choices) Devastators are only for set scenario games, and are not a viable choice for all-comers randoms.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I think the main reason that 10-man Devastator squads are not used is because of the cost. You are already paying a premium for the squad once you add in the heavy weapons, and I don't think that spending the points to add in a few ablative wounds is worth it. They are not scoring, the extra Marines probably won't get a chance to do anything other than just sit there and play cards, and if your opponent really wants to get rid of the Devastators, they will kill them regardless of how many ablative wounds you have.

 

What I have been trying for my Devastators is a 5-man squad with 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Multi-meltas inside a Rhino. The Rhino gives them increased survivability, and I can choose which of the two heavies I want to fire from the top hatch. Dual missiles against long-range targets or infantry, and dual meltas against non-infantry within 24".

 

If you really want to be able to split fire, I would suggest taking a look at Space Wolves.

[thade]

I use Devastators in most every game I play. I field a ten marine squad with four missile launchers; I combat squad them with each squad getting two missile launchers. These guys are my light armor killers.

 

I use them instead of a Rifleman Dreadnought because one lucky shot won't wipe their ability to launch missiles around the field; more to the point, I think they're more expensive than the Rifleman because of this increased durability. I field the Devastators even if I do field Dreads; Dreads take fire because one lucky shot will kill them. They also have more firepower...because there are guys with boltguns in that squad. They won't be moving and so can pop out 24" rounds when needed. As a nice little bonus, the Sergeant's Signum makes one of those MLs hit on 2+.

[DarkGuard]

I have seen in the past three missile launchers and one las cannon with the las put in with the sargeant to gain the extra BS etc but I have never seen a dev squad split this way. In my mind it seems to offer a fairly cheap way to get two elite units that can dish out a nasty round or two of firing and the heavy weapons have three extra wounds to keep them alive longer. But as I said I have never seen a list with this in it let alone seen it used in battle. Which makes me think I am missing something and there is a reason why it wont work.

 

Thoughts? Good Idea, bad?

 

You obviously didn't watch me play a year or two ago, that used to be a squad I ran, alongside a Razorback of course.

 

I like Devs, I really, really do. More than Assault squads in fact. And I would love to play a Half Company list again, but I just can't bring myself to do so. The main reason is because for Devs, DoW really, really hurt them. As Koremu has said they don't start on the board, need to move on, and if you want them to find somewhere decent to sit expect them to take a turn or two doing so. And they're really expensive for what they do.

 

When the new Marine Codex comes out I'm looking forward to cheaper heavy weapons and a couple of power weapons for Assault squads. I won't hold my breath on the Assault squads, but I expect cheaper heavy weapons and really look forward to it, because I do like Devs.

[spartan249]

As you can see, devies aren't popular because of the exorbiant costs assigned to the weapons. It works somewhat if you don't get dawn of war, but otherwise, devies have to fight an uphill battle to get a good vantage point. If you're dead set on using them, I recommend two missile launchers and two plasma cannons so you can hit disembarked passengers with the plasma.

[Mysticaria]

What I have been trying for my Devastators is a 5-man squad with 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Multi-meltas inside a Rhino. The Rhino gives them increased survivability, and I can choose which of the two heavies I want to fire from the top hatch. Dual missiles against long-range targets or infantry, and dual meltas against non-infantry within 24".

That's not a bad idea... but for 80 more points you could have the same squad plus the option to combat squad the multimeltas into the rhino and the missiles into the backfield. You are spending only 80 points to get another effective squad into the battle. As it is now, you have a fairly expensive squad with no ablative wounds, with weapons of different range bands, that can only fire half their weapons a turn... not too strong. For 80 more points you can make a really nice squad however.

 

One idea with combat squads is 1x lascanon 3x missiles. You then combat squad the lascanon with the seargent to make it hit on 2+ and put the missiles into another squad with 2 ablative wounds. It's somewhat expensive, but gives two squads with awesome firepower.

 

-Myst

[Yotakka]

appart from the DoW issue i think its a great idea. The current meta is the more armor the better so why not take advantage when your opponet expects mech and sees foot? your foot guys can resist more than one lucky shot, have 3+ armor, and can gtg for a 3+ in most cases

 

ps: im a little biast. i play a raven guard half company w/ and extra squad of devs

[thade]

Alright, let's address the "Dawn of War Issue". What does it mean?

• They have to slog on during the first turn, meaning they won't fire until turn 2.
  
• You can't deploy them with height (e.g. in ruins); they'd have to slog there.
  
• You can't deploy them in cover; they'd have to slog there.
  

What can you do?

Slog them on; not into cover and not with height. Table set up will determine where they should go. Remember that they're 3+ and you can make cover for them by putting the non-heavy weapon troops behind a Rhino (more than half the unit) or some piece of sufficiently tall scenery. LOS cover will have to do.

 

You have other units in your army that you can use to try and harry things into the Devs firing lanes; likewise, your opponent will try to avoid those firing lanes. Just because Devastators aren't firing every turn doesn't mean that their points are wasted. If they shoot at nothing for an entire game but help to shepherd your opponent's units in a way that's helpful to you, they can earn their keep.

 

It's a pain, but it's not that big a problem. ;)

[minigun762]

As cool as devastators are, I'm not sure they're really needed for vanilla marines when you can combat squad your tacticals. Sure you don't get the heavy weapon density but you get cheaper weapons and scoring status instead. Add in a razorback with the points saved and you should be good.

[thade]

Add in a razorback with the points saved and you should be good.

One lucky shot = no more Razorback. The same cannot be said for a Devastator squad. That's the selling point, for me.

[cernunnos]

I like a 10 man squad with 2 missile launchers, 1 plasma cannon and a multimelta. One combat squad has the missile launchers and the plasma cannon, whilst the other combat squad has the multimelta (and perhaps a sergeant with combi-melta) and is deployed in a rhino to move into midfield and provide an area of threat against advancing armour. The foot combat squad has three blast markers against hordes, the possibility of an AP2 blast and 2 AP3 shots against meq, and 2 S8 shots against transports.

 

In static squads I think its important to be able to engage different types of enemies to minimize the risk of being without a target in any given turn.

[DarkGuard]

In static squads I think its important to be able to engage different types of enemies to minimize the risk of being without a target in any given turn.

 

Which is why missile launchers are so popular on Devs. Cheap(ish), able to be taken en masse, can take out light armour, and threaten even Land Raiders, and also very good at scything down infantry and even Marines with a bit of luck.

 

However, different weapons? I'm not too sure. Building a unit that should combat squad is bad because in annihilation missions you either have a squad that is inefficient or give an extra kill points. And if say you take a couple of lascannons and a couple of heavy bolters you'll do a decent job at best against either target, but not as good against either target compare to a squad that specialises. While Marines are an army that seem to be generalist, a lot of units have to specialise and then work together in synergy to create an effective, fighting force, which necessitates focus on units like Devs.

 

I also agree with thade about the fact that the unit is less likely to be knocked out by one shot. However, it's the prohibitive points cost and despite what thade says, DoW deployment that prevents me from taking them.

[minigun762]

Add in a razorback with the points saved and you should be good.

One lucky shot = no more Razorback. The same cannot be said for a Devastator squad. That's the selling point, for me.

 

Good point and to be fair there is nothing stopping the devastators from taking a razoback for their own purposes.

[thade]

Add in a razorback with the points saved and you should be good.

One lucky shot = no more Razorback. The same cannot be said for a Devastator squad. That's the selling point, for me.

 

Good point and to be fair there is nothing stopping the devastators from taking a razoback for their own purposes.

You're playing both sides!! :)

[Mysticaria]

I think that because the "DoW issue" the Devs must have transport. The ability to drive on the board 12" and then disembark 2" and then run another 1"-6" gives them significantly improved deployment insurance. Razorbacks are really nice transports for Devs, especially the lascanon varients

 

Nothing wrong with this squad:

5x Devastators, 3x missile launchers, Razorback w/tl lascanon (205)

 

-Myst

[thade]

Nothing wrong with this squad:

5x Devastators, 3x missile launchers, Razorback w/tl lascanon (205)

Personally, I don't like this squad; not enough vanilla marines to soak hits before you lose the sergeant and some missile launchers. Taking a Razorback for the defacto squad (4xML, 10 marines total) is fine...as you're going to combat squad them anyway so they can effectively engage multiple targets yet still focus-fire at need. One of the detachments can hop in their Razorback.

 

That said, if you only want five Devs, the third ML isn't that big a deal as it's cheap, so you can go Mysticaria's route and allocate points elsewhere in your list. I'm not a fan because I've tried builds like that before and I've been disappointed in their performance compared to my usual build.

[nurglephill]

Well, let me just say thank you for all those posts people. As ever they have made very interesting reading thanks!