Using a super heavy from reserve via Spearhead

[dizzy-xc]

The tank is about 12" long. Movement is only 6". How do you deploy from reserve?

[Seahawk]

By the BRB FAQ, it dies.

 

By being any sort of nice person, it moves on 6". For me, if any guns are hanging off the table still, they cannot fire.

[jeffersonian000]

Actually, per the BRB, you ignore any speciel rules that impose movement restrictions that would prevent the vehicle from entering the board, so the 6" movement restriction would be ignored allowing you to place the model fully on the table (touching the table edge).

 

SJ

[dswanick]

Actually, per the BRB, you ignore any speciel rules that impose movement restrictions that would prevent the vehicle from entering the board, so the 6" movement restriction would be ignored allowing you to place the model fully on the table (touching the table edge).

 

SJ

CAn you give a page number or quote for this tidbit, please?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Actually, per the BRB, you ignore any speciel rules that impose movement restrictions that would prevent the vehicle from entering the board, so the 6" movement restriction would be ignored allowing you to place the model fully on the table (touching the table edge).

 

SJ

Ah, but nothing is preventing it from moving on to the table, there are no movement restrictions. What happens is that the vehicle is unable to actually move its entire hull onto the table, and as per the BRB and the FAQ, it therefore dies and is removed.

 

The 6" is the vehicle movement allowance, it is not a restriction.

[Azatoth]

I would think it only matters once it has finished its move. Is it broader then 6" else you could place it sideways.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I would think it only matters once it has finished its move. Is it broader then 6" else you could place it sideways.

The hull is a little less than 6 inches wide, yes. One sponson will just barely hang over the edge, about a 3rd of the sponson out over the edge.

[jeffersonian000]

The rules under Dawn of War for units moving on to the table from reserve. There is a specific exception given to units with special movement restrictions. In addition, there are rules for reserving immobile vehicles, which could also be used. The unit is not destroyed unless it is blocked from entry.

 

SJ

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

The rules under Dawn of War for units moving on to the table from reserve. There is a specific exception given to units with special movement restrictions. In addition, there are rules for reserving immobile vehicles, which could also be used. The unit is not destroyed unless it is blocked from entry.

 

SJ

Let me give you the text of the rules, as found on page 94 of the BRB (Arriving from reserve), quoting the specific section you refer to:

 

If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specific direction (such as "Rage", for example) or that would stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from Reserve.

 

It goes on to list what to do with Immobile vehicles and units (and example would be Hydra batteries from the Imperial Armour books).

 

A super heavy have none of these rules. It moves up to 6 inches in the movement phase, no more. This is its movement allowance. There is nothing to prevent it from moving (such as a Chaos Dreadnought suffering Fire Frenzy, or a Stunned tank), nor are there any special rules in effect that would have it move in a specific way (such as Rage or a Fallback move). It is therefore limited to 6 inches of movement to get its hull onto the table. Per the BRB and the FAQ, if it fails to achieve this, it is destroyed.

 

There is nothing more to it.

[Grey Mage]

My group has seen fit to ignore that part of the FAQ for superheavy vehicles, and simply allow them to roll on at 6" a turn.

[jeffersonian000]

Ok, I guess some people would rather screw over your opponent for reserving a Super-Heavy tank. Oh well, good for you.

 

SJ

[Chengar Qordath]

Ok, I guess some people would rather screw over your opponent for reserving a Super-Heavy tank. Oh well, good for you.

 

SJ

Quite; good sportsmanship/common sense dictates that a super-heavy should be capable of moving in from reserves.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Ok, I guess some people would rather screw over your opponent for reserving a Super-Heavy tank. Oh well, good for you.

 

SJ

No, we are wanting to play using the rules. If I bring a super heavy, I'll have to move it on and then pivot to make it fit. And if I let my Obliterators walk on, and they roll snake-eyes then they die.

 

But thank you for the vote of confidence.

[dizzy-xc]

Ok, I guess some people would rather screw over your opponent for reserving a Super-Heavy tank. Oh well, good for you.

 

SJ

No, we are wanting to play using the rules. If I bring a super heavy, I'll have to move it on and then pivot to make it fit. And if I let my Obliterators walk on, and they roll snake-eyes then they die.

 

But thank you for the vote of confidence.

 

 

 

And both are pretty dumb, but thems da rulz. I've encountered so many RAW that are broken that I'm starting to take a shine to the RAI side of the field.

[jeffersonian000]

Indeed. I'm more of a Rules as Practical sort of player, since GW did intend for everything to work and just seems to assume all of us are practical enough to play the game as if everything works. Really, its the RAW vs RAI camps that detract from game more than GW's crappy writing skills.

 

SJ

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

RAI again?

 

Tell me, how many of you out there know the games designers or are telepaths?

 

None of you? Well, that's why RAW is so much easier.

[dswanick]

RAI again?

 

Tell me, how many of you out there know the games designers or are telepaths?

 

None of you? Well, that's why RAW is so much easier.

Because without the benefit of knowing a GW game designer personally we mere mortals are incapable of determining a Rule As Interpreted? ;)

I tease, but this is a perfect example of how anyone is susceptable to writing something they consider absolutely clear (your RAI = Rule As Intended) and yet others with a different frame of reference or definitions can read the words and reach a different conclusion about what was written (my RAI = Rule As Interpreted). We all Interpret the rules, as the rules are simply formations of ink on a piece of paper without any meaning other than that which we give them by virtue of reading, understanding , and interpreting them. Now I am the first to argue for a "play the rule as it is written", but even I realize that the written word can still be misinterpreted and misapplied. All one need do to see the silliness of the "Pure RAW" point of view is do a google search and you will find such problems as Eldar Wraithguard may never fire as they are infantry, they draw line of sight to shoot from their eyes (RAW), and the model has no eyes. Painting eyes on after the fact does not count - the mini is not modeled with eyes, and how you choose to paint your model may not have any bearing on how the rules work (unless you are orks and paint your vehicle red, but that's Codex > BRB).

 

RAW including the FAQ, super-heavies may not enter play from reserves unless it is less than 6" wide and you are willing to pivot 90' and expose your flank armor when entering and perhaps limit your fire arcs. RAI(nterpreted) is that SH vehicles like The Iron Saint (WD #352) would not be given the Flank March strategic asset if it wasn't supposed to be able to use it. And with its primary weapon fixed forward it requires some common-sense accomidations to be playable.

[Commander Sasha]

This is turning nasty, please be nice.

How about just house ruling the following:

1) In Dawn of War, or other scenarios where the Super-heavy must start off the board, when it comes on it comes on fully, perpendicular to the table edge, and counts as if moving at full speed.

2) In all other scenarios, it may not be held in reserve, and must start the game on the battlefield.

 

RAI and RAW are not relevant when you are playing an APOCALYPSE unit in a 40K game.

[Grey Mage]

Indeed, I think the standard 40k FAQ doesnt cover things much at all in the expansions, and allowances must be made.

[Brother Theophantus]

The closest thing to an official ruling on the matter seems to be the adepticon FAQ which allows superheavies and similar to move as far as they need to in order to move fully onto the board.

 

On a personal note I always find it interesting how players who use exploitative RAW to their benefit always seem less than impressed when you do the same to them.

[dizzy-xc]

2) In all other scenarios, it may not be held in reserve, and must start the game on the battlefield.

 

RAI and RAW are not relevant when you are playing an APOCALYPSE unit in a 40K game.

In my original post, i referenced the Spearhead Superheavy intended for 40k play, which offers 2x methods of deployment. Reserve or on the table, the latter of which allows your opponent a free penetrating hit before game starts. Your ideas are bad imo.

[Sparhawk]

2) In all other scenarios, it may not be held in reserve, and must start the game on the battlefield.

 

RAI and RAW are not relevant when you are playing an APOCALYPSE unit in a 40K game.

In my original post, i referenced the Spearhead Superheavy intended for 40k play, which offers 2x methods of deployment. Reserve or on the table, the latter of which allows your opponent a free penetrating hit before game starts. Your ideas are bad imo.

 

I would be inclined to believe that if there is a rule for allowing the vehicle to start in reserve then it would by neccessity need to be able to enter or else what is the point?

[thade]

RAI again?

 

Tell me, how many of you out there know the games designers or are telepaths?

 

None of you? Well, that's why RAW is so much easier.

 

There are some rules which are so well-known to long-time players that they are no longer stated clearly in the rules. Things like...

• Counts-As/WYSIWYG: never stated, referred to in the Characters chapter.
  
• IC in TDA joins a PA unit and they assault...can the unit perform a Sweeping Advance?
  

Things like this mean that RAI is more often than not the way to roll. Simply put, the rules of Warhammer are not bulletproof as they may be in a game like Magic: the Gathering. They are not only extremely complicated; they are made more so by inconsistencies and omissions on the part of the authors.

 

Knowing the designers and telepathy are actually not prerequisites. RAW is not always easier.

 

And both are pretty dumb, but thems da rulz. I've encountered so many RAW that are broken that I'm starting to take a shine to the RAI side of the field.

You and me both, Brother.

[awfulawful]

If your opponent makes a tactical mistake, by all means, take advantage of it.

If some poorly worded rules give you the opportunity to deprive your opponent of a powerful unit before it can even enter play, and you exploit that in order to secure a win, then you might not be as good a player as you think you are.

 

 

 

And both are pretty dumb, but thems da rulz. I've encountered so many RAW that are broken that I'm starting to take a shine to the RAI side of the field.

You and me both, Brother.

 

And that, my friend, is just one of the many reasons that people (myself included) enjoy playing the game with you. Go figure.

[Azatoth]

I am not saying that the OP is trying to do anything fishy.

 

Still I mainly see a superheavy vehicle in a non-apocalypse game, using a rule set which was basically set up to further boost the sales of vehicles. From that PoV I would say live by the rules die by the rules.

My opponent wants to use a SH used from reserve to further deprive me of at least one round of shooting, then let it be his problem how he gets that SH onto the table according to rules.

Also it should be pretty impossible to place it sidewards if its around a feet long. It will enter the table with around 50% of its hull, and when it starts to turn around, I will make very sure that it rotates arounds it center. I wont mind a sponson or a fraction of an inch hanging over a table edge. But 25%+ its tough cookies, after all nobody forces the opponent to start from reserve, he just wants to prevent the penetrating hit he would get if starting the a table.