Rhino Question

[Coldblooded]

Quick and to the point, does anyone actually use EA for Rhinos?

 

I've been using it on my 2 Rhinos and it doesn't ever come into play. If my rhinos are getting focused, they die. I understand the point being that Rhinos are made for moving and EA keeps you from being stuned, but for 15 points each it just seems like a waste.

[Koremu]

Short answer is: Yes I do.

 

Long Answer is: While it only comes into play on one of six results, when it does come into play it's invaluable.

[Lysimachus]

I think most people view it as you do, Rhinos are good because they're cheap, 15 pts are better spent elsewhere. On more important tanks, such as a LR, especially if it's essential to your game plan to deliver its cargo, it's less of a waste.

[Mysticaria]

I'm firmly of the "Never EA on Rhinos" opinion.

 

The upgrade is too expensive for the vehicle, and doesn't add anything that you can't already get by play style. It doesn't change the assault range at all for the current turn, so honor guard and the like who are planning to assault don't even care about it. It doesn't allow you to fire with passengers, so devastators and sternguard with 2 missile launchers inside don't care about it. It only ever comes into play when you are trying to get a squad somewhere 2-3 turns from now, or making a last ditch effort for an objective... and even then only one 1 of 6 damage results. In the first case, you still have 8" of effective movement between disembark and regular move, so losing that 6" from the rhino is not that big of a deal. Or, in the early game most times I just stay in there and wait it out for a turn. If you are trying to make a last ditch objective grab, then prior planning could have prevented the situation. I play the game knowing I have 5 turns to get to an objective, and I'm not relying on extra armor... or even the rhino for that matter... to be there for me on turn 5-6. I'm using the rhino for movement on turn 1-2 and thene expecting it will get blown up.

 

-Myst

[TyrionTheImp]

Extra Armour is way too overcosted for what it does. The only things I put it on are DCCW Dreadnaughts and LR's if I have the points.

 

Dreads benefit because you can still run and pop smoke, or assault if you're shaken, and LR's benefit because an LR that isn't moving is probably not going to last much longer, plus PotM can still fire a weapon. Rifleman and other ranged dreads probably don't benefit as much from it though.

 

Let's look at it this way though: to get EA on 2 Rhino's you can almost get a third rhino. That third rhino will benefit you far more than having your 2 other rhino's be able to move 1/6th of the time more when they're hit. That's assuming they don't get blown up too.

[DarkGuard]

I'm also on the "no extra armour for Rhinos" bandwagon.

 

Used to use it, but it makes a 35pts vehicle 50pts. That's an increase of nearly 50% for ignoring 1/6th of the vehicle damage table. Not worth it IMO. Often you won't need it anyway, and would have blown smoke, or will blow smoke, or will be where you need to be etc. And often stunned Rhinos get ignored the next turn as there are more pressing targets.

 

Nope, in the end it's too expensive, and as Myst says a better playstyle should see you through any potential problems anyway.

[McFisty]

I always take EA on Rhinos and LR. It doesn't factor very often but when it does it is usually a game changer. My feeling is that since the transports need to move to fulfill their primary role, the EA helps to achieve that function.

 

For The Emperor,

 

McFisty

[Captain Idaho]

Extra armour is one of those pieces of wargear GW completely got wrong in 5th edition. They made it less likely to have Stunned results in 5th edition compared to 4th, yet tripled the points costs of the wargear that's only function is in conjunction with it. This was backwards logic frankly, as we now have to pay more for wargear less useful to us.

 

Incidently, they also changed the rules for rending so it was less likely, yet increased the points of units with rending weapons, and reduced the amount of killing power of most models with power fists (less attacks) and increased the points costs of those weapons in most units.

 

Silly GW. :rolleyes: :lol:

 

Anyway, it's almost never worth taking EA on anything barring the transport of a unit that most get where it needs to go or a Dreadnought designed to assault. Thing is, that generally means a Landraider or Ironclad, 1 of which has Extra armour standard.

 

Even my Honour Guard don't take a Razorback with extra armour, because the benefit of having an assault unit not in an expensive Landraider is the cheap cost and throwing points at an upgrade worth almost 50% the cost of the cheap transport contradicts the advantage here.

[thade]

Short answer is: Yes I do.

 

Long Answer is: While it only comes into play on one of six results, when it does come into play it's invaluable.

Koremu, is this in the context of your customized codex? I.E. is the EA points cost reduced for the Rhino?

 

As it stands, I'm in the "EA is too expensive for a Rhino" camp.

[Koremu]

Short answer is: Yes I do.

 

Long Answer is: While it only comes into play on one of six results, when it does come into play it's invaluable.

Koremu, is this in the context of your customized codex? I.E. is the EA points cost reduced for the Rhino?

 

As it stands, I'm in the "EA is too expensive for a Rhino" camp.

No, this is in the context of the regular & blood angel codicies

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I can see a call for EA on rhinos which have particularly vital units as overall 15 points isn't much (I know its a large portion of the rhinos original cost etc, but 15 points ISN'T exactly going to break the bank on points.)

 

The real arguement for EA really comes down to when you're splashing out on upgrades as sometimes you just can't buy another unit and other upgrades just dont seem that useful (perhaps a power sword of a devastator squad)...after all you can't convert 15 points into a whole unit...

 

 

Generally i'd say no as there are usually better things to invest it into, like a power sword or storm shield for that vanguard squad, or a combi-flamer and melta bombs for a tacticals squad, but sometimes I could see it having a place..

 

 

 

 

This was backwards logic frankly, as we now have to pay more for wargear less useful to us.

 

This seems to be what GW does...wargear, some units are useless and Finecast seems all well and good, but I was hoping for a price drop after the cheaper to produce models arrived, instead its a price increase...is there no end to their madness?! I think chaos is at work... :P

[ilnar]

I always put EA on my rhinos/razors, simply because, a transport that hasn't move is dead in CC. With the ever growing tyrannid and ork armies in the local meta, transports are relitavly safe, as long as they can move.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

No EA on my rhinos.

 

Me no need for stinkin' EA. :)

[DarkGuard]

Extra armour is one of those pieces of wargear GW completely got wrong in 5th edition. They made it less likely to have Stunned results in 5th edition compared to 4th, yet tripled the points costs of the wargear that's only function is in conjunction with it. This was backwards logic frankly, as we now have to pay more for wargear less useful to us.

 

Incidently, they also changed the rules for rending so it was less likely, yet increased the points of units with rending weapons, and reduced the amount of killing power of most models with power fists (less attacks) and increased the points costs of those weapons in most units.

 

Silly GW. :) :lol:

 

100% correct. I swear that in regards to overcosted/overpowered units they have a look at the various things they could to to level that out, such as making them more expensive, or perhaps less powerful. They then apply them all and you get overcosted, bad pieces of wargear and units that just don't warrant inclusion into an army.

 

I always put EA on my rhinos/razors, simply because, a transport that hasn't move is dead in CC. With the ever growing tyrannid and ork armies in the local meta, transports are relitavly safe, as long as they can move.

 

And a dead Rhino in CC means a dead Nid/Ork squad in the next turn. If you're forcing your opponent to counter your tanks with CC, you're doing something right.

[ilnar]

Not at all, if your rhino dies in CC the squad inside usually dies as well. :)

It's not hard to surround a tank the size of a rhino so the squad cannot deploy.

[Koremu]

I always put EA on my rhinos/razors, simply because, a transport that hasn't move is dead in CC. With the ever growing tyrannid and ork armies in the local meta, transports are relitavly safe, as long as they can move.

 

And a dead Rhino in CC means a dead Nid/Ork squad in the next turn. If you're forcing your opponent to counter your tanks with CC, you're doing something right.

Really? 'Cos quite honestly one of my preferred methods of killing tanks is with Kraks.

[DarkGuard]

Personally, in my experience surrounding tanks doesn't happen much where I play, as normally the assault moves aren't enough to surround the tank, and we can't be bothered or are too nice to surround a transport with warriors to take it out on later turns, or just don't have enough to surround and kill. But that's just here, and here it's best to take tanks out from range and assault the unit inside.

[Koremu]

My all time record most killy unit is held by a Tactical Squad who racked up 2 Chimera, 2 Hellhound, 2 Imperial Guard Veteran Squads, 1 Leman Russ (including Pask) and a Ratling Sniper Squad, and ended the game with the Flamer Marine holding an objective.

 

Don't tell me Kraks don't work.

[ilnar]

You don't need to surround it, you don't have to get many models in B2B with a rhino to prevent things getting out,

Hell, I've done it with 2 ravening bikes and a speeder.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I wonder if they'll revise the surrounding units killing the people inside the transport rule..it seems a bit silly! What is it supposed to represent the enemy doing? Hugging an exploding/flaming wreck of a vehicle? Pushing people who attempt to escape the wreckage back in? Or the marines peek out of the destroyed vehicle and decided they'd rather die in the flames than face the enemy...not very ATSKNF is it?

 

Surely any survivors would just move straight into a melee fight, with the enemy getting the charge regardless or something?

[ilnar]

Getting out of a wrecked tank is hard. It's supposed to represent people being cut down getting out. Much in the same way as sweeping advance

[thade]

Getting out of a wrecked tank is hard. It's supposed to represent people being cut down getting out. Much in the same way as sweeping advance

Maybe. I would prefer that they were forced into an assault at Init 1 or something though.

 

The leading marine tank killers are Krak Missiles and Auto-cannon rounds...who suggested otherwise? ;) Not to dismiss krak grenades; en masse those things will do the job.

[DarkGuard]

My all time record most killy unit is held by a Tactical Squad who racked up 2 Chimera, 2 Hellhound, 2 Imperial Guard Veteran Squads, 1 Leman Russ (including Pask) and a Ratling Sniper Squad, and ended the game with the Flamer Marine holding an objective.

 

Don't tell me Kraks don't work.

 

When did I say kraks don't work. Go back and point that out to me. All I said is that in my experience, in my playing group, tanks don't tend to be destroyed much in combat. Every now and again maybe, such as my Scout squad the other day, but most people prefer to use missiles, autocannons, lascannons etc. Does that translate to me saying that kraks don't work? No, it doesn't. They don't seem to work for me, but that's because I am pretty much the unluckiest person in my club, and can't roll above a 4 when using them, even on mass. But I never said they don't work because they do. S6 on AV10 is deadly en masse, and can do the job. They just don't do the job at my LGS because the style of play doesn't favour it.

[Leardinal]

You don't need to surround it, you don't have to get many models in B2B with a rhino to prevent things getting out,

 

No, you do have to completely surround it. If your opponent only covers the access points, you can emergency disembark on their turn and do stuff on your turn.

[thade]

You don't need to surround it, you don't have to get many models in B2B with a rhino to prevent things getting out,

 

No, you do have to completely surround it. If your opponent only covers the access points, you can emergency disembark on their turn and do stuff on your turn.

Well, you are both correct, really. If you have a full squad in a transport and you can't emergency disembark ALL of them without each and every model in the unit being 1" away from his units, then you lose the unit. That's the nitty-gritty of it.