DOA now dead?

[Linux_Box]

According to most of these people DOA and combat squads, DOA is nerfed now?? I've been playing jump pack (usually DOA but not always) for 6 weeks. Seems to me I'm nerfed since all 10 marines must land in one spot and cannot combat squad. Our LGS doesn't really have a consensus either with 2-3 different groups of interpretation...

 

Anyone ever get an actual answer from the rule monkeys at GW?

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

This is how it goes:

 

Make the Reserve roll.

Decide to Combat Squad or not.

If you decide to Combat Squad then you can place the two halves anywhere.

 

This is how i believe it is intended and the way it's played in Ireland.

[thade]

You make the choice to split the unit into combat squads when you deploy the unit (per the Combat Squads special rule in the codex). So when you make their reserve roll, you decide (Declare) at that moment. If you choose to break the unit into two squads, you can; they are then two separate units (per the Combat Squads special rule in the codex) for the rest of the game...and as such Deep Strike separately.

[ilnar]

So why does the FAQ state that units in reserve may not combat squad!

[JamesI]

So why does the FAQ state that units in reserve may not combat squad!

 

Very simple.

 

While in reserve, squads may not combat squad. If the squad combat squadded while in reserve, both squads would need to roll for reserves separately.

 

They combat squad later when they are deployed from reserve. 1 roll, then when they arrive they split.

 

Very simple.

 

Of course, I don't see how losing Combat Squadding would kill DOA anyway.

[Spacefrisian]

I have been rolling seperatly since the start of this whole Combat squadding thing when i had my units in reserve. Not that big deal if you ask me.

[Darklighter]

Ok apart from this odd nugget in the BA FAQ I can find nothing at all the disallows combat squading from being in reserve. The rules for reserves and deep striking make no mention of it, neither does the rule for combat squading in my BA codex.

 

I've always used it like this:

 

First I combat squad then place in reserve as separate units, roll for each individually then place and scatter as normal.

 

I think I'm going to continue playing it like this as well.

[Lord Fancy Pants]

Ok apart from this odd nugget in the BA FAQ I can find nothing at all the disallows combat squading from being in reserve. The rules for reserves and deep striking make no mention of it, neither does the rule for combat squading in my BA codex.

 

I've always used it like this:

 

First I combat squad then place in reserve as separate units, roll for each individually then place and scatter as normal.

 

I think I'm going to continue playing it like this as well.

 

 

You are doing it wrong.

 

Codex: BA states that you Combat Squad when you deploy (pg 23). BRB states that "when deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve" (pg 94). Also, "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it," (pg 94)

 

 

So, a unit is either deployed or placed in reserve. There is no such thing as deploying in reserve. It's one or the other. Once a unit makes it's reserve roll, it is then deployed. According to the BA book , that is when it is combat squaded.

 

What you are doing is actually the specific thing that the FAQ says you can't do. That is, being combat squaded while in reserve.

 

To the OP, no need to contact the rule monkeys. The FAQ ruling makes total sense if you read the corresponding rules that are in the BRB and Codex: BA.

 

 

*edit* to Darklighter, the FAQ with the combat squad in reserve ruling is in the Space Marine FAQ

[Taz]

FAQ is not saying that you lose the ability to combat squad if you put things in reserve. It's stating that it may not be combat squadded until you deploy the unit to the table. The rule is in place to keep players from holding individual combat squads in reserve. After the reserve roll is made then you make the decision to split the unit, and deploy them both on the table how you see fit. Sounds simple enough, yes?

[ilnar]

So why does the FAQ state that units in reserve may not combat squad!

 

Very simple.

 

While in reserve, squads may not combat squad. If the squad combat squadded while in reserve, both squads would need to roll for reserves separately.

 

They combat squad later when they are deployed from reserve. 1 roll, then when they arrive they split.

 

Very simple.

 

Of course, I don't see how losing Combat Squadding would kill DOA anyway.

This is the best explanation I've seen for this. I like it.

[Leksington]

It's stating that it may not be combat squadded until you deploy the unit to the table.

The problem is that the rule doesn't say that at all. I wish the rule said that.

 

Squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

Unfortunately the statement "may not break down into combat squads" is both present and future tense.

 

 

That particular FAQ item sucked and I hope GW clarifies it in their next round of FAQ updates. While I personally agree that deepstriking units can combat squad, the people who disagree with me do have a leg to stand on.

[Lord Fancy Pants]

It's stating that it may not be combat squadded until you deploy the unit to the table.

The problem is that the rule doesn't say that at all. I wish the rule said that.

 

Squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

Unfortunately the statement "may not break down into combat squads" is both present and future tense.

 

 

 

Actually, the rule for CS in Codex: BA does say that you don't CS until you deploy. Anyone who applies future tense to the FAQ ruling is reading it wrong. All the FAQ says is "...because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads". It doesn't say "may never break down into combat squads". If you read the BRB section on reserves, it is made very clear that "placed in reserves" =/= "deployed". They are two different states that work in a specific order. Reserves, make roll to enter, deploy. Combat squading does not occur until you deploy. The FAQ only further reinforces that.

[Taz]

It's stating that it may not be combat squadded until you deploy the unit to the table.

The problem is that the rule doesn't say that at all. I wish the rule said that.

 

Squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.

Unfortunately the statement "may not break down into combat squads" is both present and future tense.

 

 

 

Actually, the rule for CS in Codex: BA does say that you don't CS until you deploy. Anyone who applies future tense to the FAQ ruling is reading it wrong. All the FAQ says is "...because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads". It doesn't say "may never break down into combat squads". If you read the BRB section on reserves, it is made very clear that "placed in reserves" =/= "deployed". They are two different states that work in a specific order. Reserves, make roll to enter, deploy. Combat squading does not occur until you deploy. The FAQ only further reinforces that.

 

This.

[Darklighter]

Thank you Taz and Lord Fancy Pants for clearing it up. I will omend my ways. I do however disagre about the FAQ it is extreamly unclear on first inspection. I've also never met a single person that plays it this way (even in tournaments), so I guess in this case they definatly needed the FAQ.

[vharing]

It basically saves you have have both haves come in on different turns.

[Leksington]

Actually, the rule for CS in Codex: BA does say that you don't CS until you deploy. Anyone who applies future tense to the FAQ ruling is reading it wrong. All the FAQ says is "...because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads". It doesn't say "may never break down into combat squads".

That you think reading it in the future tense is wrong is opinion rather than fact.

 

You are correct, it doesn't say "may never break down into combat squads".

It also doesn't say "while placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads."

 

It was a poorly written FAQ item and could use clarification. I agree with your interpretation 100%. But at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if I was in a tournament and an offical ruled against me.

[Lanfear]

you are all wrong. well, you do it right, but refering to the FAQ in the wrong way.

you cant take an answer out of the context of its question, and use it as an answer for another question. thats simply not possible.

 

 

Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and

then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat

squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the

Drop Pod? (p32)

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not

break down into combat squads.

 

reserve and combat squading stands right in context to the drop pod. you cant take that part out of the question.

as above stated, the important part is the order of the actions and the events they trigger.

 

10man Squad + Drop Pod => Deploy or place in Reserve, use transport or not.

if reserve, unit is not deployed, cant break into combat squads.

if deployed, can break into combat squads (transport is not used).

important is here, if the unit uses the transport, it is in reserve, not deployed and can not split into combat squads, because that can only be done while deploying. when they get deployed, all 10man are in the pod when deploying, and therefore cannot break into squads.

[Morticon]

you are all wrong. well, you do it right, but refering to the FAQ in the wrong way.

 

10man Squad + Drop Pod => Deploy or place in Reserve, use transport or not.

if reserve, unit is not deployed, cant break into combat squads.

if deployed, can break into combat squads (transport is not used).

important is here, if the unit uses the transport, it is in reserve, not deployed and can not split into combat squads, because that can only be done while deploying. when they get deployed, all 10man are in the pod when deploying, and therefore cannot break into squads.

 

Best read all those rules:

 

SRB Pg. 94:

 

Preparing Reserves -

" We deploying their army, players may chose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve"

 

Rollings for Reserves -

"Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it..." (emphasis mine).

 

BA Rulebook Pg. 23:

 

Combat Squads-

"The decision to split the unit in Combat Squads as well as well as which models goes into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed" (emphasis mine)

 

 

The FAQ has NO relevance to the above rules, it simply clarifies that you cannot combat squad units in reserve, not that units in reserve cannot be combat squadded once they are deployed.

[Linux_Box]

The FAQ has NO relevance to the above rules, it simply clarifies that you cannot combat squad units in reserve, not that units in reserve cannot be combat squadded once they are deployed.

 

That's how I initially interpreted it... and I still think that is how you read it. People saying you can 'never' combat are reading too much into it. The FAQ merely restates what is already known as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to continue playing it like I have for the last few tournaments and deal with any protest if/when they happen.