Gornall Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I love my Ultramarine army, but I am taking a slight detour on the GK bandwagon and plan on doing a small army of Honorguard=GKs. Paladins will be TDA Honorguard with Draigo as the Chapter Champion and Calgar will be represented as a DK (the new Finecast Calgar model couldn't have come at a better time!). This is my first test mini: http://images.dakkadakka.com/s/i/gallery/img/2011/6/26/239868_md.jpg Feedback/Ideas are greatly appreciated! Models not painted yet: http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/7/8/244415_md-.jpg http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/7/8/244416_md-.jpg http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/7/8/244417_md-.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 on the GK bandwagon and plan on doing a small army of Honorguard=GKs. is there any room left on that bandwagon?, i swear it must hold more people than greater london.. youll have to excuse my negativity towards GK, i have a sour taste towards the very boring/predictable GK/SW/BA armies.. everyone and thier mums are running them at the moment, and i barely get games against more interesting opponents. im seeing a big movement towards power gaming rather than friendly play.. its not cool.. Although that being said ive a huge soft spot for themed armies and a whole HG list looks nice... im not sure GK is the way to go though tbh... Sw wolf guard army would be much closer IMO, or just use 2 5 men troops choices and go with C:SM dex still its a beaut of a model, full props for that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2803764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroth Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 My problem with the Grey Knights is to do with Grumpy Old Man syndrome. I loved 2nd Ed where you could add a squad of Grey Knight Terminators to your army. I loved the idea of an elite squad teleporting in to help you kick arse. Making a whole army of them seems to cheapen their rarity value. I'm planning on buying a Grey Knights strike cruiser for Battlefleet Gothic, to sort of recreate the old 2nd Ed feel. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2803826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMidas Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 gks as honor guard is actually a pretty cool idea. which codex are you running, though? ultramarine HG can't get terminator armor, iirc, though they start with artificer. mostly curious on this point... as far as the painting goes, I'd strongly recommend doing some washes on the blue to get more depth. while bright, it's very flat in tone, there's little shading in the nooks and crannies and few highlights that I can see. it need not be black, asurmen blue will do nicely. I'm really unsure about the red shoulders. If you are going for ultras I would swap the red out for white, and maybe the helm too. the bolter would be good in red, maybe even the weapon effect. the way it is now says more superman than ultramarine to me. purely my $.02, ignore wholesale if you wish. it's your project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2803929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 gks as honor guard is actually a pretty cool idea. which codex are you running, though? ultramarine HG can't get terminator armor, iirc, though they start with artificer. mostly curious on this point... as far as the painting goes, I'd strongly recommend doing some washes on the blue to get more depth. while bright, it's very flat in tone, there's little shading in the nooks and crannies and few highlights that I can see. it need not be black, asurmen blue will do nicely. I'm really unsure about the red shoulders. If you are going for ultras I would swap the red out for white, and maybe the helm too. the bolter would be good in red, maybe even the weapon effect. the way it is now says more superman than ultramarine to me. purely my $.02, ignore wholesale if you wish. it's your project. Thanks for the input! Yeah... I did some blue wash originally and I think it looks more shaded/highlighted in person, but it could probably do with another layer of shading/highlighting. I went with red shoulders to differentiate them from normal 1st Company Terminators, because I haven't had any luck with greenstuffing cloaks or the leather waist straps. My traditional AA HG have a lot of red in their scheme so I did a similar scheme for these guys. I went with gold on the helms to keep with the traditional HG color scheme. I will try a more traditional scheme on my next mini and see how it turns out. I will be playing them using the GK codex. I am taking artistic liberties and basing it on my idea of how the Honorguard might have adjusted to the Swarmlord debacle. TDA to better survive rampaging MCs, Pyscannons as stabilized HBs with hellfire rounds, and Calgar in an upgraded suit of armor (even though Swarmlord still pwns it). There is even the option for the Chapter Banner. Finally, I will be using the Scribor Spartan Hero as Draigo/Chapter Champion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2803969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I loved 2nd Ed where you could add a squad of Grey Knight Terminators to your army. I loved the idea of an elite squad teleporting in to help you kick arse. Making a whole army of them seems to cheapen their rarity value. Thats the joy of playing with friends! I let my IG opponent use a unit of GK Terminators in the campaign we're running. Things like that just add some variety/fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2805354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroth Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Agree! Lone assassins were excellent too. More in keeping with the background as well. Sure, they were probably overpowered ability-wise back then (especially the Eversor), but they were fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2805564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 gks as honor guard is actually a pretty cool idea. which codex are you running, though? ultramarine HG can't get terminator armor, iirc, though they start with artificer. mostly curious on this point... I've got a friend who uses an Honour Guard squad in his Astral Claws army, and he's made them using the Grey Knight Strike squad and Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard sets. They look absolutely amazing, and it's a joy to face them down across the battlefield. I'm not sure if you're saying whether you're curious about the Honour Guard getting the artificer armour rather than the Terminator armour, but I'll say that the Honour Guard get the best equipment and relics of the Chapter. There's less artificer armour than Terminator armour, and it seems to be held in higher esteem, although that certainly depends on the Chapter. To the OP, I like the idea, and the model looks great. I do really like the idea of using Terminators for Honour Guard, and you could always write some rules that makes them more expensive in exchange for Terminator armour. Or just let your opponent know, it's the 2+ save that's the best thing about Terminator armour in my book, the 5++ doesn't do much in my experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2805575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 on the GK bandwagon and plan on doing a small army of Honorguard=GKs. is there any room left on that bandwagon?, i swear it must hold more people than greater london.. youll have to excuse my negativity towards GK, i have a sour taste towards the very boring/predictable GK/SW/BA armies.. everyone and thier mums are running them at the moment, and i barely get games against more interesting opponents. im seeing a big movement towards power gaming rather than friendly play.. its not cool.. Although that being said ive a huge soft spot for themed armies and a whole HG list looks nice... im not sure GK is the way to go though tbh... Sw wolf guard army would be much closer IMO, or just use 2 5 men troops choices and go with C:SM dex still its a beaut of a model, full props for that GK armies? Predictable? Surely you jest, GC08. The codex is PACKED with great options, I can't imagine any two GK armies look the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2808588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroth Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 GK armies? Predictable? Surely you jest, GC08. The codex is PACKED with great options, I can't imagine any two GK armies look the same. I think GC's referring to the fact that as they're the 'newest, bestest thing ever', everyone's using them. And I can't help but agree. There's no way that a Grey Knights army is the best fit for Ultramarines Honour Guard in terms of background for example. Having said that, they're the owner's miniatures, and anyone can (and should) feel free to ignore my opinion. -B Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2808673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 GK armies? Predictable? Surely you jest, GC08. The codex is PACKED with great options, I can't imagine any two GK armies look the same. I think GC's referring to the fact that as they're the 'newest, bestest thing ever', everyone's using them. And I can't help but agree. There's no way that a Grey Knights army is the best fit for Ultramarines Honour Guard in terms of background for example. Having said that, they're the owner's miniatures, and anyone can (and should) feel free to ignore my opinion. -B What codex would you suggest? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2808941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroth Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 To use Honour Guard? Codex Space Marines. To do the 1st Company, I'd use Codex Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2809358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 For 1st Company, I would definately use the DA dex. However for a full Honor Guard army, I do not think they are a good fit. Likewise, because Honor Guard are expensive and not scoring in the SM dex, I do not think I could build a good themed army and remain competitive. GKs offer the ability to field scoring units of power weapon-wielding guys in PA and TDA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2809452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 GK armies? Predictable? Surely you jest, GC08. The codex is PACKED with great options, I can't imagine any two GK armies look the same. I think GC's referring to the fact that as they're the 'newest, bestest thing ever', everyone's using them. And I can't help but agree. my comments were about two things, firstly what Balroth suggested, that all i seem to see now is GK BA and SW armies.. secondly the builds i do see are normally very similar.. this is more aimed at the Sw lists i come across... im not having a pop at these armies in general.. but the 'armies' i see fielded against me.. show me a Sw army that uses ragnar and has no long fangs, show me a themed army from any of these dexes and ill be more than happy to play them... otherwise *yawn* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2809928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Mine will attempt to be themed, but balancing theme and effectiveness is tough. I am one of those guys that builds an army 2/3 forits ability to win and 1/3 for its ability to look cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2810091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [show me a Sw army that uses ragnar and has no long fangs, show me a themed army from any of these dexes and ill be more than happy to play them... otherwise *yawn* ok so yeah, show me a space marine list that doesnt take dev squads....show me a space marine list with vulkan that doesnt have TH MM MGs HF or flamers.....show me a list that doesnt take full potential of what it can do....... this statement doesnt prove anything. I have several SW lists that have LF but NO ragnar....whats your point? themed lists take advantage of the STRENGTHS of the army being played so if they have ragnar, you better believe that there are going to be LF....if you have vulkan you better believe that there will be TH MM MG HF and flamers...... im waiting to see your point? ....... :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2812716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Mat Ward was right. Deep in the warp Kaldor Draigo lies awake wishing that he was awesome enough to be an Ultramarine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2812928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Mat Ward was right. Deep in the warp Kaldor Draigo lies awake wishing that he was awesome enough to be an Ultramarine. :D It's true... Draigo is only good enough to be a Chapter Champion in my Ultramarine Army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2812963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I just added the images of my Calgar DK and one of my first PA Honorguard. My greenstuffing is terrible, but I think some paint will fix most of the sins. The idea was to cover up any major GK symbols and covert the chapter symbol into a Omega with a nameplate in the middle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [show me a Sw army that uses ragnar and has no long fangs, show me a themed army from any of these dexes and ill be more than happy to play them... otherwise *yawn* ok so yeah, show me a space marine list that doesnt take dev squads.... That would be most lists. Dev squads are horrendously over-priced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMPT Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 [show me a Sw army that uses ragnar and has no long fangs, show me a themed army from any of these dexes and ill be more than happy to play them... otherwise *yawn* ok so yeah, show me a space marine list that doesnt take dev squads.... That would be most lists. Dev squads are horrendously over-priced. I'm pretty sure the point that toasterfree is making is that everyone is gonna wanna take heavy weapons. Especially if have the ability like the LF's do to shoot at 2 different targets. Why not use your strengths that you're given? Unless you'd like to run around shooting crusaders and other high armour vehicles with a bolt pistol..... umm thanks for playing???? I for 1 would take a couple LC's in my LF's and take out 2 tanks in 1 turn. The quicker I take you out the better it is for me. I for one am gonna take whats effective, and taking heavy weapons are pretty effective in my book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Also, the reason few people take Ragnar is that he's really not particularly good value for his points. A 100 point Rune Priest brings more to your army than he does. Logan at least brings the ability to take Wolf Guard as troops, plus a few bits and bobs that make paying for him less of a teeth-clench. I love the ability to mess with the force organization chart, hence my biker army with master of the forge. Ragnar just makes a squad of Space Wolves better at assault, something which Space Wolves don't exactly suck at to start with. I will agree that razorspam wolves do annoy me though. I think Phil Kelly must have been smoking something when he basically made all Space Wolf units the same cost on a per model basis. Blood Claws the same cost as Grey Hunters? I would have said 14 points versus 16, and 18 for Long Fangs, but then I didn't write the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Ragnar is beast. The only real problem is that it is really hard to take full advantage of his saga. But the times I have taken him he has either made his points back easily or has taken such a beating that the rest of my GH with him have made the difference. Logan does more will agree to much he still doesn't see much play time unless you are playing WG terms or WG spam. Will agree BC should be less points and maybe the LF be higher but then why print a new codex, just reprint the 3rd edition one. Then you could complain about 3 pf attacking you with 3 attacks each and the then WG in the unit getting his three and you STILL would not be happy. So the point is still unfounded. And anyone can razor spam. So that point is lost. I'm still waiting for a valid reason for not taking advantage of your units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Not that the discussion of SW armies in a thread about a GK Counts As army in an Ultramarine forum is valuable, but does anyone have feedback on the actual topic? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2813972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think it's awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233012-ultramarine-honor-guard-army-count-as/#findComment-2814066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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