Empty Rhinos

[Matty_G]

This 11th Company article got me thinking about it.

Alternate Chaos list Part 3 of 6

 

If I have a squad of Chosen with a rhino, if I chose to infiltrate them, their empty rhino dploys as normal, correct? That Empty rhino could then be used as mobile cover for other advancing rhinos. Does this sound like a viable or just fun tactic?

[Ammonius]

Depending on how well you orchestrate your "parking lot" it works fine - I did it yesterday and the empty rhino contested an objective for most of the game. Just don't forget to plink away with the twin-linked bolter!

[the jeske]

If I have a squad of Chosen with a rhino,

and why are you not ouflanking . what are you going to do with an infiltrating unit of chosen ? even if you deploy 12"+away you wont get the 2d6 from melta and with plasma your going to do what smoke a rhino ? If your further away your more or less doing nothing .

[MaliGn]

I used to run 3 rhinos in a mostly infiltrating AL army, two of which i'd deploy empty, and despite the only full one being modelled elaborately to represent daemonic possession, in every game I played the opponenet alwats shot the full one last, much to the delight of the possessed within.

[totgeboren]

I just outflank mine. Champ with a fist, 2 meltas and 2 flamers (and two meltabombs) plus icon. They always do something very useful. In one battle vs nids, they earned me 7 kp before being destroyed.

 

But yeah, as you said, if you really want to infiltrate them, an empty Rhino is very useful as mobile cover, or some other squad could just hitch a ride in it.

[Matty_G]

If I have a squad of Chosen with a rhino,

and why are you not ouflanking . what are you going to do with an infiltrating unit of chosen ? even if you deploy 12"+away you wont get the 2d6 from melta and with plasma your going to do what smoke a rhino ? If your further away your more or less doing nothing .

 

Is there a good post about Infiltrating versus Outflanking? I didn't find one easily with the search tool. Is there any situation where infiltrating Melta Chosen would be better than outflanking them?

[the jeske]

never because you will always be outside of the 6" extra 2d6 range + if your opponent has anything that moves more then 12" per turn the 5 chosen are dead . and if he gets turn 1 before firing a shot . also getting in to range at all if you opponent has infiltrators or plays SW[choser of slain] is a huge problem . ouflanking is 12"move "2 disembark 6-12" range and even if your opponent knows your ouflanking chosen he still has to keep his stuff in the middle and more bunched up ,and for a short range/assault army that is always good.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If I have a squad of Chosen with a rhino,

and why are you not ouflanking . what are you going to do with an infiltrating unit of chosen ? even if you deploy 12"+away you wont get the 2d6 from melta and with plasma your going to do what smoke a rhino ? If your further away your more or less doing nothing .

 

Is there a good post about Infiltrating versus Outflanking? I didn't find one easily with the search tool. Is there any situation where infiltrating Melta Chosen would be better than outflanking them?

 

Depends. Are there going to be deep strikers in the army? Specifically, are you taking Lesser Daemons? Because then you can infiltrate your Chosen (with an Icon) slightly farther back then you might other wise attempt (as much as I don't agree with Jeske as a general rule, he makes a decent point here about neutralizing the melta) and starting bringing down daemons and termicide squads right in front of those units that have been baited into rushing the OMGlotsofmelta! Chosen squad. I would suggest a full ten men however, just to make sure you have the model count to survive the inevitable shooting they will be on the receiving end of.

 

Oh, and the specific mention of the daemons is because they can assault after deep striking. I know my gaming group was unaware of that caveat in C:CSM until I pointed it out.

[Spacefrisian]

You arent allowed to make use of infiltrate when in Rhino, if you go with that word for word you cant use it to outflank (as per CSM Codex). That is if you want to be a jerk.

 

 

Personally i would only use Infiltrate if the guys have either Heavy weapons, getting you in a good spot for shooting down something big (doesnt happen that much), or if i can catch them with a unit armed with power weapons just to wreck some havock on weak cc units (doesnt happen that much either).

[WarpWhisper]

You arent allowed to make use of infiltrate when in Rhino, if you go with that word for word you cant use it to outflank (as per CSM Codex). That is if you want to be a jerk.

The rules on pg94 specifically allow you to outflank using dedicated transports. Pg 75 says "If a unit with this ability is deployed inside a transport vehicle, it cannot infiltrate." Ergo, the unit does not always have to be deployed within it's dedicated transport.

 

However, this isn't a rules discussion, so moving on; I would mostly advocate the use of outflanking in the rhinos, but there is an angle to take against regular opponents, where infiltrate can give alternate uses for chosen than ones that your group of gaming buddies might be expecting, or in games where you can see an advantage from (possible unexpected) infiltrating.

 

One idea is (if going first) deploying the Chosen's empty Rhino, but keep your Chosen ready to infiltrate. Once the opponent has deployed, you can weigh up your options (especially if your opponent knows you have some infiltrators to deploy) and decide if there is anywhere that the Chosen can deploy effectively using their ability. If there isn't (a cany opponent may make sure there aren't any suitable spots out of LOS/in cover), then you can always deploy the Chosen within 2" of the hatches on their Rhino. With the first turn, they can then embark and move off almost as if they had been deployed there all along. If you wanted to take this a step further, the Chosen could deploy next to any transport vehicle, be it from another Chosen unit, another CSM Troop rhino or even a Land Raider. This idea may not work so well if an opponent seizes the initiative, but the Rhino should still offer reasonable cover.

 

Equally, once a regular opponent has seen you do this a few times, you could then use the rhino to deploy in a refused flank formation: that is place the chosen Rhino in one place, so he deploys to counter that threat, but then infiltrate the Chosen onto the other flank, leaving him facing off against an empty tank. The beauty of these tactics is that you can make these decisions mostly after the opponent has deployed, giving you flexibility.

 

Deploying second allows you to keep your Chosen out of their Rhino to try and deny any enemy infiltrators space to operate - if you loose the roll to deploy infiltrators first, you can then still fall back to deploying the Chosen near their rhino, as above. (This would work equally well if you were going first, but the enemy had infiltrators too).

 

The biggest advantage is flexibility; should an enemy expect outflank; then infiltrate, and vice versa. As long as you know what your options are, you can adapt to specific enemy forces/deployments.

 

(For more info on using Rhinos with Chosen, please look here.)