Questions

[SevenExxes]

Ok, these are just some random questions.

 

Honour Guard.

Yes, I know they have been discussed many a time but I'm only just refitting mine for real this time as they all had storm bolters.

They will have Meltaguns this time but what I want to ask is: Would a power fist fit in the unit incase of the dreaded close combat with a walker and would they benefit from having a chapter banner?

 

Storm Bolter. What unit, except Terminators, would Storm Bolters best suit? I have 3 of them and just wish to use them. I also have wrist mounted Storm Bolters from a Grey Knights pa box set. Can I use these as normal Storm Bolters?

 

Reclusiarch, DC and shooting.

I fit my Reclusiarch out with a combi-melta simply for the Ballistic Skill of 5.

A unit can only assault what it has fired at.

The Death Company must move toward the closest enemy due to Black Rage.

 

If the Reclusiarch shoots at an enemy other than the closest enemy to the Death Company does this mean the DC can't assault because they have to move toward the closest enemy yet the closest isn't the one shot at by the Reclusiarch?

Or does the DC now move toward the enemy unit that was shot at by the Reclusiarch?

 

What happens if I immobilise/wreck something with the combi-melta? Do I still have to assault it?

Do I have to assault it if I do no damage at all? I'm thinking yes because rule book states to assault whatever's been shot at.

What if it's out of range to assault, can I assault another unit?

[Xenith]

DC have to move toward the closest enemy. They do not have to assault the closest enemy. Read the rage rule carefully - you have already written this in the OP.

 

If the chaplain shoots something, but doesnt kill it, then the DC have to charge it. If the chaplain shoots something >6 inches away, then the DC cannot charge.

 

You have to assault what you shoot. The only exception is if you kill a transport, then you are allowed to assault the passengers..

[Morticon]

Clarification on this is that you can multi-charge a different unit if the primary unit is the one you shot at.

 

 

Chapter banner is always useful for HG, and neighbouring squads! A powerfist is a matter of taste. A 5man squad makes for a good counter charge/shock unit - not a tarpit. I dont recommend fists on 5man squads because too often theyre gonna go down before they use it.

While its easier said than done, you shouldnt be allowing yourself to get into combat with a dread with a unit like the HG.

 

You can use the GK storm bolters - no hassles. As for best unit or model, any model with a powerfist will benefit from the SB.

 

As for the DC- most of its been answered! You dont have to assault anything.

[JamesI]

I would not bother with a banner in a shooty honor guard. A powerfist is a fine addition, though I would lean towards the thunder hammer instead.

 

I don't tend to use stormbolters, but they are ok additions to tac sergeants who have powerfists, Sanguinary Priests with Lightning Claws. Generally I would not put a storm bolter on an IC, unless that IC was using a Powerfist, Thunder Hammer or Lightning claw since you don't want to give up the extra attack.

[Morollan]

DC have to move toward the closest enemy. They do not have to assault the closest enemy. Read the rage rule carefully - you have already written this in the OP.

 

If the chaplain shoots something, but doesnt kill it, then the DC have to charge it. If the chaplain shoots something >6 inches away, then the DC cannot charge.

 

You have to assault what you shoot. The only exception is if you kill a transport, then you are allowed to assault the passengers..

 

Not sure if this is badly phrased or badly understood. You do not have to assault what you shoot. You can choose not to assault at all. However, if you have shot at something, you can only charge that unit (if you choose to charge).

[SevenExxes]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I just realised I only have 3 meltaguns at the moment so my Honour Guard is 3 melta, 1 fist on the Chapter Banner and of course a Novitiate.

I think this will still work as the unit needs 5+ instant death hits to die and still get 2 attacks each in a charge so that's 3 with a banner.

Whatever they charge will need to be chosen wisely of course.

 

One more question for now.

Heavy Bolters: Are they of any use?

I have 2 GK heavy weapons that can easily be used as heavy bolters and with my two rocket marines I could scrape up a Dev Squad for static fire support. Would 2 heavy bolters and 2 rocket launchers be of any use? (Only problem with this is I don't have the Dev Sgt. backpack. Would that really matter?)

[Brother Chris]

The Dev sergeant uses a 'signum' to improve the BS of the other men in his squad. I suppose that the backpack represents this but it's hardly wysiwyg so no problems. GW model our one holding an auspex, which could be standing in for it too.

 

Morollan is surely right. A lot of the posts seem to suggest that once some-one shoots at a unit the DC are compelled to assault it. they only thing they are compelled to do is use their Move to get closer to the nearest enemy unit. Following the normal rules if the have fired at a unit and then chose to assault, the assault has to include the unit they fired on

 

(Fluff-wise this is all quite mad. Presumably the Black Rage is intended to simulate an unquenchable desire to kill the enemy, not to move close to them. It would make more sense if the Move was controlled by the player and the Rage then seized the troops to fire on and assault whoever they were closest to, but I suppose this didn't work out in play testing)

 

It seems equally possible for the Fleet DC dread to use its extra move to run away from whoever it was walking towards during the Move phase, unless I've missed something.

 

I love heavy bolters, by the way, based on the Intro scene from Dawn of War. They aren't doing a lot of different work from the normal bolters, however, which is why I think a lot of players prefer the special effects heavy weapons, which add armour piecing, tank busting and blast template capabilities to the mix.

[JMac]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I just realised I only have 3 meltaguns at the moment so my Honour Guard is 3 melta, 1 fist on the Chapter Banner and of course a Novitiate.

I think this will still work as the unit needs 5+ instant death hits to die and still get 2 attacks each in a charge so that's 3 with a banner.

Whatever they charge will need to be chosen wisely of course.

 

They are honor guard, so they are better than you think. They have 2 attacks each base, +1 for the charge, +1 for the banner for a total of 4 on the charge. PLUS, the novitate will give them Furious Charge striking at I5 and S5!

 

Heavy Bolters are good. S5 AP4 may not be strong against MEQ (Marine Equivalent) units, but against a lot of other units, it will tear them apart. Even against MEQ units, the Heavy Bolter hits on 3, and wounds on 3s giving you pretty good odds of at least 1 wound. The only problem with taking those heavy bolters with the 2 missile launchers, is you are most likely going to want to shoot at different targets with the MLs than you will be with the HBs.

[knife&fork]

Heavy Bolters are good. S5 AP4 may not be strong against MEQ (Marine Equivalent) units, but against a lot of other units, it will tear them apart. Even against MEQ units, the Heavy Bolter hits on 3, and wounds on 3s giving you pretty good odds of at least 1 wound.

 

Not really, you'll need 6 HB shots in a round of shooting to average one MEQ wound. Double that with FNP.

 

They are inexpensive and do look cool, but plasma cannons are more versatile. Plus they are S7 so they do better vs armor and can ID low T multiwound models like guard weapon teams.

[Brother Chris]

Always wondered what MEQ meant. Thanks!

 

By the way, this thread might have done better with a more discriptive title than 'Questions'

[SevenExxes]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I just realised I only have 3 meltaguns at the moment so my Honour Guard is 3 melta, 1 fist on the Chapter Banner and of course a Novitiate.

I think this will still work as the unit needs 5+ instant death hits to die and still get 2 attacks each in a charge so that's 3 with a banner.

Whatever they charge will need to be chosen wisely of course.

 

They are honor guard, so they are better than you think. They have 2 attacks each base, +1 for the charge, +1 for the banner for a total of 4 on the charge. PLUS, the novitate will give them Furious Charge striking at I5 and S5!

 

Heavy Bolters are good. S5 AP4 may not be strong against MEQ (Marine Equivalent) units, but against a lot of other units, it will tear them apart. Even against MEQ units, the Heavy Bolter hits on 3, and wounds on 3s giving you pretty good odds of at least 1 wound. The only problem with taking those heavy bolters with the 2 missile launchers, is you are most likely going to want to shoot at different targets with the MLs than you will be with the HBs.

 

Totally forgot to add the +1 for charge. Thanks!

 

Always wondered what MEQ meant. Thanks!

 

By the way, this thread might have done better with a more discriptive title than 'Questions'

 

This thread is meant for random questions I come up with at all times of the day and night so the title "Questions" kinda makes sense. I could rename it "Random Questions" if you like. :P

 

 

Thanks for the replies. I will have more Random Questions later on.

[After_8]

It seems equally possible for the Fleet DC dread to use its extra move to run away from whoever it was walking towards during the Move phase, unless I've missed something.

Afraid not. Fleet doesn't allow you to gain an extra move; it simply allows you to still assault after running in the shooting phase. The rulebook (can't remember the page) specifically says that while a model with rage doesn't have to run in the shooting phase, if it chooses to, it must run towards the nearest enemy.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, though.

[SevenExxes]

Hand Flamers. Are these worth taking or just a gimmick? I have about 6 of them and plan on making a Hand Flamer unit, just for the laughs.

[Leonaides]

against some enemies, yes. Against some units, no. If you're making them anyway, does it actually matter, if you're just wanting to use it for laughs? IG blob squads, small nids, grots,Tau, eldar... All might be worried by handflamers. Marines, orks, chaos, large nids... Less so.

[Morollan]

As mentioned above, it depends who you're fighting. Whenever the issue of hand flamers comes up, we usually get someone saying something like "They're awesome. I killed 7 chaos marines in one shot!!!" but you should remember that this is a freakish occurrence and is very unlikely to happen. Against MEQ, you need 9 targets under the template in order to kill one (statistically speaking) but against Ork Boyz you need 3 and against gaunts you only need 2.

[JamesI]

As mentioned above, it depends who you're fighting. Whenever the issue of hand flamers comes up, we usually get someone saying something like "They're awesome. I killed 7 chaos marines in one shot!!!" but you should remember that this is a freakish occurrence and is very unlikely to happen. Against MEQ, you need 9 targets under the template in order to kill one (statistically speaking) but against Ork Boyz you need 3 and against gaunts you only need 2.

As Morollan says.

 

I used to use hand flamers, but now prefer infernus pistols if I actually take an upgraded pistol. Generally I don't take either.

 

I've had my statistical anomalies, such as taking out an entire squad of tau with one hand flamer or catching 7-8 gaunts under it and none die. It happens. But generally, I think we are so tight for points that it rarely is worth the cost for a hand flamer.

[Leonaides]

though if the unit has no access to a normal flamer, it can provide slightly more flexibility/capability to that squad. Not saying that its necessarily worth the points all the time, but there may be situations where it might prove useful. Just dont ask me to name a specific one:-)

[AGPO]

I'd generally take a flamer/meltagun over a hand flamer/infernus pistol respectively if possible, they're significantly better weapons, about the same price and only cost you one attack in CC anyway. When you consider they're much more likely to destroy their intended targets than their respective pistol forms, that one regular cc attack seems a reasonable price to pay. It can be the difference between getting +2D6 on AP roles, or wounding that swarm under the template on a 3+ rather than a 4. Over the course of the game, that one extra attack isn't going to do much more for you.

 

That said, they look awesome! If you like them, go for it!

[SevenExxes]

Thanks for the replies again.

[SevenExxes]

Sorry for the double post but I needed to bump the thread and I don't think editing alone would achieve this.

 

Artillery.

Is it possible to target a section of terrain rather then an enemy unit when using pie-plate artillery?

The reason for this would be to target terrain infront of enemy units and get a possible scatter onto the enemy. This would then be used if the artillery is out of range for direct fire, allowing the scatter dice to force the pie-plate onto the enemy.

 

I realise that this could prove largely ineffective if it is a legal tactic.

Esepcially after factoring in Ballistic Skill. Argh, I just thought of that.

But still, if you scatter more then eight inches it might be effective somewhat.

 

Too much reading on the Battle of Kursk, lol.

[AbusePuppy]

No, you must always target a unit when shooting. Note that you can be chancy with this and target one unit in such a way that it is mostly hitting another- such as laying a blast over the edge of a vehicle so that it strikes the squad hiding behind the hull. (This doesn't work as well with template i.e. flamer weapons, since the instructions for firing explicitly tell you that you must cover as much of the primary target as possible.)

[SevenExxes]

No, you must always target a unit when shooting. Note that you can be chancy with this and target one unit in such a way that it is mostly hitting another- such as laying a blast over the edge of a vehicle so that it strikes the squad hiding behind the hull. (This doesn't work as well with template i.e. flamer weapons, since the instructions for firing explicitly tell you that you must cover as much of the primary target as possible.)

 

Yeah I thought it was a long shot for that being legal. Well at least we have fast tanks so that compensates quite a lot.

Thanks for the reply and tip.