New FAQ "nerf"?

[Prototype]

I was watching Beasts of War today where they were having live coverage of an event, and they basically said the new FAQ's shafted the Blood Angels, and as a result they were (at that point of the comment) 2nd last place in the tourney.

 

What changed, exactly? Other than the clarification of the Psychic Powers?

[breng77]

Can't think of anything other than, needing to hit with psychic shooting attacks, and no recasting powers. Both of those hurt BAs(mostly the no recasting for Mephiston), hardly enough to explain why they would be second to last if they usually did better.

[thade]

Mephiston is still a beast, even if he can't guarantee that he's Str 10/Preferred Enemy/Flying every turn.

 

There are a great deal more factors that go into why the BA player didn't take first place; I'd be surprised if the FAQ was anywhere on that list at all.

[breng77]

Mephiston is still good, just not quite as good, and I agree, the FAQ is unlikely to be high up in the reasons why a BA army would underperform.

[Morticon]

I was watching Beasts of War today where they were having live coverage of an event, and they basically said the new FAQ's shafted the Blood Angels, and as a result they were (at that point of the comment) 2nd last place in the tourney.

 

What changed, exactly? Other than the clarification of the Psychic Powers?

 

 

Very odd statement to make. If a player that can place top three places bottom 3 because you now need to roll to hit blood lance (arguably) and cant reroll mephies powers -then im calling poor player ability.

[Nemisor]

i dont get it. no one i have ever played against or myself have ever tried using the same power more than once. i was sure you couldnt do that anyway. how odd. and iv'e never seen any "top" players use mephiston either, but thats pobibly due to the amount of eldar players.

 

and to be fair those beasts of war guys dont really have a clue what they are talking about half the time anyway ;)

[breng77]

Yeah BOW is not really a great place for tactical ideas, it is great for reviews, and unboxing vids, but tactics are either pretty elementary, or sometimes against the rules.

[thade]

or sometimes against the rules.

This last part is what really puts me off of them. At times their "strategies" and "rules interpretations" seem as if they're meant to be satirical.

 

i dont get it. no one i have ever played against or myself have ever tried using the same power more than once.

The most frequent usage of this was to re-test for one of the powers if you failed to cast it. It was rare that you needed to use all three powers in one turn, either locked in an assault (so you wouldn't be flying) or moving (so you'd only be using the 12" move power). Nothing in the rules directly said otherwise, or at least that was the take for a long time.

 

FAQ has resolved this, regardless.

[Black Memories]

Their lists/tactics seem to be flat bad or illegal most of the time. I find BoW kind of annoying to watch actually. Other than that the reason that I would imagine they're saying it's worse for is not so much failing the test, but getting hooded or having the power removed. Against SW or Nids or Eldar your chances drop a lot for being able to use the psychic powers. That said Mephiston has a beast stat line and has won a lot of combats where I couldnt use any powers at all. Kind of a garbage idea.

 

If someone did poorly it's likely because they played badly or played a bad list.

[thade]

If someone did poorly it's likely because they played badly or played a bad list.

Or their list was awesome and they played very well but they were out-played. ;) Or perhaps made a mistake. Really these are the best kinds of games, no?

[Black Memories]

I'd say if you have a strong list and you play well the only way to lose is dice rolls. Sure you can get outplayed I suppose but if two people have two lists that are good lists and both play well, its either going to come down to soft-counter matchups due to the lists, or to dice rolls.

 

That said I don't agree with the second part. If you make a mistake you didn't play well. Part of playing well is not making critical mistakes. Thus you cannot play well AND make critical mistakes that cause you to lose, it's one or the other.

[thade]

I'd say if you have a strong list and you play well the only way to lose is dice rolls. Sure you can get outplayed I suppose but if two people have two lists that are good lists and both play well, its either going to come down to soft-counter matchups due to the lists, or to dice rolls.

This is simply not true. Consider a match where both players have identical lists, both players play competently, and both players roll precisely statistically average. If you like, allow a bias toward them more often failing saves than not.

 

This game will not necessarily end in a Draw.

 

Table-layout is a factor. The way one player plays when compared to the other is a factor: for instance, if one is a Fire player and the other an Earth player; what if they are both Fire players? The choices the make over the course of the game will weigh heavily on the outcome. Even something as simple as target priority is seldom black and white.

 

Again, the best games I've personally been a part of have been those games where the lists are both strong and my opponent is on his game. His list being stronger than mine and he being a more seasoned player than I are factors, but they do not mean I will lose.

 

The way you talk about the game, it's as if you consider certain players to be Kings and other players to be Jacks. Unlike cards, one player + list + dice does not uniformly trump another player + list + dice.

 

EDIT: broken tags

[Black Memories]

I don't disagree with it being fun to have an evenly matched game. That said if everything is even the game WILL end in a draw OR the player with the first turn will win (as mathematically he will get more dice rolls before he tables his opponent, as his opponent could theoretically table if allowed to make his final move which he would not get). It's impossible for it not to if everything is perfectly even including dice rolls. That's why stalemates exist. Those literally are the only two possible outcomes.

 

I think this is probably derailing a bit but to further reinforce this you're playing the odds as much as your opponent in warhammer. Everything being even, whatever. That's a cute argument but it also isn't realistic. No two opponents are equally skilled at everything nor is it common to see an identical list or have identical dice rolls. Playing the situational odds properly based on what you're given, in my opinion, is what makes a solid warhammer player. There's a lot that goes into that. Comfort with your list, familiarity with the game, knowledge of other armies, preferences on how to handle situations (shooting vs assault, or fight vs flight), etc, etc.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to everything in warhammer, that's what makes it fun and crazy. Acting like that doesn't exist is silly. To throw this back into a mephiston/BA competitive context-- If someone is having trouble with how mephiston is being played they're always free to use him differently. I played a lot of eldar players that were making it tough to cross the board so I threw him in a stormraven. That solved that problem. Be selective with their targets more. Don't throw him at a hive tyrant deathstar by himself because he'll have trouble cleaving his way out of it now (though still totally possible). It's just an adjustment based on what you have. If you fail to make adjustments you just aren't that good. That's what I'm getting at. If BoW guys are having issues making adjustments which, frankly, aren't all that difficult to make then they really just aren't that good. They could always just opt to not take mephiston or librarians if it's that much of an issue. They aren't a required HQ choice.

[SevenExxes]

What is this "new" FAQ?

Is it FAQ to the rules or FAQ to the Codex?

 

And can we have a link to this FAQ please so I know if it's different to what I have seen previously.

Thankyou.

[Octavulg]

The most current FAQs are always on the GW website.

[TheMouth]

wait...people where re-rolling mephs powers? and they didnt roll to hit with a psychic SHOOTING attack?

 

Thats how i thought it was always played...so yeah no nerf in my book. Just more of the ignorant masses properly educated.

[SevenExxes]

The most current FAQs are always on the GW website.

 

Thanks. :)

 

~Edit.

Quoted from the WH40k FAQ:

Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast

multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)

A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

 

The Shield of Sanguinius doesn't specifically state that it can not stack. So, taking an Epistolary and casting Shield of Sanguinius twice, what would be the bonus if any?

[JMac]

The most current FAQs are always on the GW website.

 

Thanks. :)

 

~Edit.

Quoted from the WH40k FAQ:

Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast

multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)

A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

 

The Shield of Sanguinius doesn't specifically state that it can not stack. So, taking an Epistolary and casting Shield of Sanguinius twice, what would be the bonus if any?

 

Useless. It would give you two 5+ cover saves, but you can only take one save. In this situation, a 5+.

It was meant more for Grey Knights and their Hammer Hand, which buffs them +1 Str until the end of the turn.

[SevenExxes]

Useless. It would give you two 5+ cover saves, but you can only take one save. In this situation, a 5+.

It was meant more for Grey Knights and their Hammer Hand, which buffs them +1 Str until the end of the turn.

 

And Might of Heroes giving one model a potential +6 attacks.

I'm thinking this alone would be a good reason to take the Epistolary upgrade.

[breng77]

Except the other FAQ ruling states that the same model cannot cast the same power twice, so the epistolary does not matter. The stacking thing has to be used by 2 different psykers on the same target.

[knife&fork]

Except the other FAQ ruling states that the same model cannot cast the same power twice, so the epistolary does not matter. The stacking thing has to be used by 2 different psykers on the same target.

 

2 Librarians joins a JP death company, Honor Guard nearby. A potential 14A from lemartes on the charge :P

[JamesI]

Except the other FAQ ruling states that the same model cannot cast the same power twice, so the epistolary does not matter. The stacking thing has to be used by 2 different psykers on the same target.

 

2 Librarians joins a JP death company, Honor Guard nearby. A potential 14A from lemartes on the charge :P

how does having an honor guard nearby help? The Chapter Banner does not give +1 attack in a radius, just to the unit.

 

Now having the Sanguinor nearby could help though.

[knife&fork]

Except the other FAQ ruling states that the same model cannot cast the same power twice, so the epistolary does not matter. The stacking thing has to be used by 2 different psykers on the same target.

 

2 Librarians joins a JP death company, Honor Guard nearby. A potential 14A from lemartes on the charge :P

how does having an honor guard nearby help? The Chapter Banner does not give +1 attack in a radius, just to the unit.

 

Now having the Sanguinor nearby could help though.

 

Good catch, I tend to mix up the different effects since I use none of them myself. So that's "only" 13 S6 I7 PW attacks re-rolling hits and wounds.

 

Still, a less ridiculous combination is just running a librarian in your dc.

[SevenExxes]

Except the other FAQ ruling states that the same model cannot cast the same power twice, so the epistolary does not matter. The stacking thing has to be used by 2 different psykers on the same target.

 

Wow, I totally missed that.

Oh well, there goes that idea.

[Jorre]

I have not seen this new faq, but I would like some clarification

 

Does it mean you can still attempt to cast the same power twice if the first is a fail or does it mean you cannot even attempt to cast the same power a second time if the first attempt was a fail ??