Azarias Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 A few months ago I was reading through Fulgrim, and was surprised to stumble upon a reference to the writings of one 'Cornelius Blake'. The quotations were from William Blake's Proverbs of Hell, and though I don't have the book in front of me, they were generally phrased to lead the reader into Fulgrim's descent into hedonism, and even justify his descent to himself (ie. "You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough", though I only remember "Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires" in the book itself). Then, as I was reading The First Heretic last night I came across Lorgar's title, 'The Urizen', which is also from Blake. Within Blake's canon, Urizen is a deific figure, a semi-god of an iron law who seeks "A solid without fluctuation," "One curse, one weight, one measure / One King, one God, one Law." It's wonderfully apropos in Lorgar's case. But Blake's not the only writer used in the Horus Heresy Series. I've read quotes from Machiavelli and Shakespeare in other books, though my memory fails me as to which ones. I'm hoping this sort of slightly meta treatment of the Horus Heresy series doesn't violate the rules of this forum, because I'm curious to see what else is referenced in the series, and with what context/implications. For instance, I've thought that the quotations guide the reader into understanding the manner in which each Primary falls into Chaos — with regards to the loyalist primarchs, I've only read Descent of Angels, and there are no extra-literary references made that I can remember, so I'm somewhat at a loss — and so it's a little telling that the literature, if not outright corrupting, at least represents the possibility of art to warp as well as aid a person. Thoughts? Once again, I hope I'm not violating any rules. And are there any other notable quotes in other HH books I have yet to read? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Then, as I was reading The First Heretic last night I came across Lorgar's title, 'The Urizen', which is also from Blake. Within Blake's canon, Urizen is a deific figure, a semi-god of an iron law who seeks "A solid without fluctuation," "One curse, one weight, one measure / One King, one God, one Law." It's wonderfully apropos in Lorgar's case. Sort of. I think it makes sense in the 40K context, which is where it really sees a lot of use, in the Word Bearer Dark Noun trilogy. It made it into the HH series with A Thousand Sons, when Magnus says it out loud, and I included it in Lorgar's list of titles in The First Heretic, purely for completion purposes. It's certainly not his main title, but one of many. I don't see it matching all that well in the Heresy era, really, nor in the Great Crusade. It seems unlikely the Imperium would know him by such a specifically religious title, with such specific connotations. The title of his that sees increasing use in the era is Aurelian, based on 'aurum', the Latin word for 'gold', and jazzed up to sound more like a Roman/Carthaginian name from its original etymology. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2806449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashur Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I remember a quote from Emile Zola in False Gods, but it is not clearly defined as such. Its a sentence from Loken who remind his brothers that the emperor taught them that "mankind will achieve perfection when the last stone from the last church fall into the head of the last priest". Or something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2806632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Ignoring the obvious references to Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe series in Gaunt's Ghosts, there were a number of mentions from Faust in A Thousand Sons. Quite obvious ones which is probably the only reason I noticed them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2806648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think A D-B was influenced a bit by Glen Cook when writing the Night Lords books. Certainly, Croaker and Talos feel very similar in some ways (though they are different people in very different worlds). That, or this is just the inevitable other book about a cynical-yet-idealistic medic who serves as the conscience of his organization, dreams of lost glory days, and whose organization has ended up working for the bad guys because they're out of other options and are on their way downhill, fast. Oh, and who are more-or-less horrible people in many ways, fond of devious and cunning tricks. Of course, he may have never heard of Glen Cook and this is just a coincidence. And, of course, Ciaphas Cain is Flashman. Oh, and if you don't consider those literature, pike off. You're wrong. ;) EDIT: Of course, if you pointed out those weren't HH books, you might have a point. *facepalm* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2806679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broker Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 A-D-B, seeing as you're here, what real world languages did you use for Colchisian and Nostramin in your books? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2807208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ignace Karkasy mentions a character called Lady Ophelia in a play called The Tragedy of Amleti in False Gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2807261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleshoes Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I always loved the subtle hints that played out for Chief Iterator Kyril Sindermann that naturaly evolved over the opening 3 books that paralleled the evolution of St. Paul The Apostle of the Christian traditions. Paul (Saul at this time), like Sindermann in the begining of their journeys were violent and vocal oppressors of faith down to their very core. They were both dedicated to the persecution of faith, one followers of a carpenter, the other, followers who stand against the Imperial Truth. One day, disaster strikes in the most unexpected place and reality ceases to make sense. Sindermann sees before his very eyes a Warp Spawn of the Whisperheads, emotion made real, while Paul sees the spirit of Christ. Both are blinded. One being literally blinded by the light, the other having his own intellect turn him into a wretched wreck, who Loken watches devolve into a man who questions the very ideals that he fights for. Both look within for answers and meet a point where they must go through that which blinded them again to meet what will happen. One turns within an ancient text and summons a demon, the other goes to a man who is deemed to preform healing miracles, both sets of circumstances would have been abhored by the individuals before. Sindermann is saved by the now divine interaction of Euphrati Keeler and becomes a man of faith to the Lecticti Divinatus, severing all bonds to Imperial Truth, and Paul was healed by a miracle preformed by Ananius of Damascus and begins to preach the word of those who he formerly persecuted. Both become the most important and vocally active speakers of their respective faiths that pave the way for the destination that their faith drives them. Though not Blake, his evolution as a character seen and touched on by 3 authors, was a very nice suprise when re-reading the opening of the series last year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233185-blake-and-the-black-library/#findComment-2807304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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