Chaos Apothecaries

[kharn_the_betrayer]

After reading the Word Bearers Trilogy, Storm of Iron and a large number of Loyalist Books (I'm working on getting through the better Chaos books) I have a question, what happened to all the Traitor Legion Apothecaries? I know a number of them are still there, but it seems like the Word Bearers replaced them, and some just disappeared. Are they still there, or is there no information on the subject other then one rogue Emperor's Children Chief Apothecary, Fabius Bile?

[Kristoff]

They are still there, they just don't spend a lot of time in the field any more, just like the Tech Marines and Chaplains.

[minigun762]

There is a few references in the various novels about them and their fates. Long story short, it varied depending on the legion and marines involved.

Sometimes they kept their duties and retained the title, other times they dropped the rank of apothecary and simply performed the tasks and in other cases they just stopped doing it at all.

 

As for other known apothecaries, there is the red corsair's corpsemaster (he's mentioned in the story in the codex of the red corsairs taking the space wolf ship).

[Hyaenidae]

Talos of the Night Lords used to be an Apothecary too, but he hasn't really done his job much except gathering gene seed. On top of that, he admitted that he kinda sucked at it too.

 

In an ooooooold short story about the Avenging Sons (I think it was reprinted in the Let The Galaxy Burn compliation), you get to meet a World Eater Apothecary. But he was utterly barking mad.

[the jeske]

pre heresy legions did more or less that . the whole growing and implanting thing was done by non space marines. apothecaries were more field medics [closer to a SW Wolf Priest] , then sm version of adeptus mechanicus [unless the whole biologos thing was retconed].

there were dudes like Bile who specialized in gene manipulation[just like that luna wolf tech priest that was master of making dreadnoughts whos name I forgot], but they were rather rare .+ for some legions[like the cult ones] post heresy there was either no need for those or the marines were too far gone to do a job like a apothecary.

[Spacefrisian]

Fabius is stil around doing his twisted apothecarie things, i dunno about you but if they are all like that i would consider twice before taking one of them with me.

[Phlegon]

Well if I remember correctly, wasn't Captain Honsou of the Iron Warriors called the half breed because of the use of Imperial Fist gene seed used to create him. If that is correct it stands to reason that the traitor legions have some means of working the gene seed. Also Jeske, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Raven Guard manipulate there gene seed or accelerate the process to become a space marine after the heresy. If that is the case wouldn't it stand to reason that the legions had some means of growing or manipulation of the gene seed. Just my two pennies.

[Hyaenidae]

Yeah, I mean they have to have a few Apocthecaries around, they're just not seen much, is all. As for the Raven Guard and their meddling with the Gene Seed, it went very poorly for them. For every stable marine the accelerated process created, a hundred were shambling monsters that could barely hold a boltgun. Their Gene Seed has been permanentley damaged because of the tampering, plus Corax was so ashamed from doing this, he ended up executing the monsters he had created, then took off into the Eye of Terror. I'd call that a loss.

[Trel]

When those Legions turned traitor, they abandoned basically everything about themselves that was 'Imperial' including their organizational structures. When they were Imperial, everything was nicely and rigidly defined for them, after embracing Chaos, nothing was defined and anyone could have whatever role they wanted. The Apothecaries probably scattered like everything else.

 

Probably, some went the Fabius Bile 'mad scientist' way, some became warlords in their own right, plenty were flat-out killed and others, realizing that they no longer had necessary access to the technology for creating new Space Marines or that they no longer particularly cared about their "brothers", just gave up the post.

[minigun762]

Remember though that there are many stories and references based on the importance of geneseed to the traitors, so I don't think its likely that any particular warband who had access to an apothecary would not be harvesting it, from their own fallen or the loyalists.

 

I think that most of them went the way of Talos, still retaining the skills and/or equipment but not the rank and title.

[Hellios]

Some of the Khornate warbands still have some kind of medic/tech as at least some of them still lobotomize new recruits or whatever it was they did <_<

[Paradigm]

There are still apothecaries. They are just very valuable and thus not seen on the front line. Do all warbands have them? Probably not. But they're around. Two of the main characters in Blood Reaver are/were apothecaries. Not all warbands recruit, not by a long shot. Many just absorb other warbands and marines as they find them. Some don't care enough about it to even do that.

[Black Hand]

There are still apothecaries. They are just very valuable and thus not seen on the front line. Do all warbands have them? Probably not. But they're around. Two of the main characters in Blood Reaver are/were apothecaries. Not all warbands recruit, not by a long shot. Many just absorb other warbands and marines as they find them. Some don't care enough about it to even do that.

 

This, essentially. It seems a bit of a risk to put Apothecaries on the front line when you could lose them and thus lose the people who know how to work with geneseed. Much better to keep them back until after the battle's done.

[Nemesor]

Same with Techmarines I'd guess.

 

Not so easy to train them without the structure and support of the Imperium/Mechanicum, so those who have them try and protect them as best they can.

 

That said, they're still warriors, and I can see more than a few getting antsy about being left at the cave every time the warband go out to crack some skulls. Particularly Khornate guys. But then maybe that's why we have some guys who gave up on being apothecaries, who knows? I reckon a lot of more recent traitors would have more of the techmarines and apothecaries. Might actually be quite sought-after when one of them goes rogue.

 

If I field a traitor warband, I like to have these sort of individuals in them, even if I can't actually have the rules to match them, because to survive, a sensible warband like mine would need to have techmarines to maintain their vehicles in the heat of battle, and apothecaries to ensure their legacy.

 

And bugger the rules. They've always been too limiting.

[Kristoff]

Ah, but there is the Dark Mechanicus, part of the Adeptus Mechanicus that chose to side with Horus so many years ago. So they have all the technical knowledge that comes with it, including how to use STCs and creating Astartes from recovered gene-seed. So it wouldn't take much to create new Techmarines and Apothecaries from there.

 

But that assumes that they candidates who WANT to.

[Nemesor]

I think in theory that works, but I doubt every group is going to have a brilliant relationship with the Dark Mech. Chaos forces tend to be fractious and fight a lot, even within their own warbands. Not everyone will be able to rely on the Dark Mechanicus for such things.

[Kristoff]

I'm just saying that it is there and as far as we know they haven't been wiped out, and thus as much an option as the current scions of Mars. Their standards have been loosened a little, so they're making Daemon Engines, Possessed, Nurgle Plagues, etc, but to assume they aren't there because they aren't represented on the table top, or mentioned in the fluff, is a bit much.

 

They are probably quite a commodity, though, and so they are left at home where they can be better protected, unlike their more boring cousins flitting about the galaxy.

[Excessus]

Aren't oblits part of the dark mechanicus? Would probably be understandable if they had some form of "handler" at hand, discussing treaties, taking care of any found/given artifacts and so on...

[Trel]

I always thought that Obliterator cult was what happened to a lot of the Techmarines. Maybe this is old fluff, but there was something about a chaos-techno-organic virus that they contracted which caused their bodies to mutate and fuse with their armor...at which point they would have long since gone mad. They operate as free agents now much like Raptors; they search for high-tech weapons to graft onto their own bodies.

 

Thinking about it, though, I can imagine that many Chaos warbands no longer feel the need to maintain Techmarines or Apothecaries since they have the power of the Warp at their disposal. If you're injured, make a fell pact with the Ruinous Powers and come back even stronger. If your Rhino breaks down, have a Sorcerer imbue the vehicle with a minor deamon and the warp creature will take care of the actual operation of the vehicle, which is now part of its mortal-plane body.

 

As for Chaos Apothecaries making new Marines, who needs 'em? The original Legions see the current crop of Marines as weak, watered-down versions of them and they're probably well-aware that their own geneseed organs have been corrupted well past the point of viability. Moreover, what would a new Word Bearer or Iron Warrior be worth today except as cannon fodder? They haven't been fighting ten thousand years. They didn't march alongside the Primarch. 'Best to save the resources on the real Marines and bolster the ranks instead with traitor Guard and daemons.

[daemonclaw]

probably kicked out of the airlock when they became renagades along with land speeders tech marines etc :wub:

[Billnye]

Think they're called Chimeruks, if I remember correctly from Storm of Iron.

[kharn_the_betrayer]

Think they're called Chimeruks, if I remember correctly from Storm of Iron.

 

Yes I believe that was the term used for them in the Word Bearers novels as well. It seems to be common rather then having a lot of apothecaries running around, or it is what became of them and their knowledge. They definitely know the physiology given what they knew how to do in the books.

[minigun762]

Think they're called Chimeruks, if I remember correctly from Storm of Iron.

 

I always thought of those as non-marine medical servants.

Same way a techpriest would be a non-marine equivalent of a techmarine.