vs. grey knights with halbreds

[Ash Tekka]

So my friend has decided to leave his BA force and start a GK army.

 

It looks like hes doing Crowe with purifiers, interceptors, terminators (not palladins) and a couple assassins for 1500 points.

 

Normally my lists consist of a fully upgraded 9+1 GH squads which usually will do good in shooting and will win assaults reliably.

 

HQ is at least a rune priest with LL & MH.

 

I also take a pair of 6 man long fangs (3ml/2lc) and then toy around with whatever points I have left to take other fun things. Each LF pack has a LC/TLPG razorback that sits near them as well.

 

With most of my friend's GKs having halbreds they will be at I6 with force weapons so I have this feeling that my GH will be slaughtered before they even get to swing.

 

So I've switched over to a longer range list and put EVERYBODY in a transport of sometype or another and stripped the upgrades out of my GH(reduced them to 5 men also).

 

However I just don't like the look of the list as it just seems very generic and doesn't have much flavor.

 

 

Am I overestimating the threat of that many I6 power weapon strikes? To me it seems like I shouldn't even take anything capable of CC since they will get slaughtered and just focus on killing him at range.

 

But then that means no Wulfen, terminators, TWC, or even LW which is what usually provide the flavor to my lists...

[Freman Bloodglaive]

If you get into combat then you will need large units to suck up the wounds he will inflict with cleansing flame and I6.

 

However, as against every army that is better in combat than you, you should be doing your best to whittle down his squads so their threat level is reduced to a manageable degree.

 

7 Grey Hunters, plasma pistol, meltagun, wolf standard, Wolf Guard with combi-melta and power fist. Rhino.

 

Backed up by.

 

6 Long Fangs, 2 x lascannon, 3 x rocket launcher.

 

In whatever combination you want. I would say at least three squads of Grey Hunters and two of Long Fangs. I would say two Rune Priests with wolf tail talismans, one with a chooser, in order to suppress the psychic powers of the Grey Knights.

 

Once you have a solid Knight killing core then you can spend your points buying those characterful units that you want in there too.

[MalachiOfRuss]

My "gut" reaction is that you're overdoing it. Here's something: test it out with your dice. Break out the dice and try out a few combats between your GH and those Purifiers in different situations: you charge, they charge and no counter-attack, they charge and you counter-attack. Purifiers are the best "bang for buck" unit in the Codex, though, with 2 base attacks, and that psychic power that does extra wounds at the beginning of CC. They are not invincible, however, and still fall to all the same anti-marine stuff.

 

You've got LC and ML on your long fangs along with the RB with 3 more AP2 shots: all of that is good. Depending on how your points go, you shouldn't need to strip down your GH that much just to get them in a Rhino, but I don't know your list, so that's up in the air. Sticking your GH in Rhinos should be a priority, though. If you can squeeze it, add in a Plasma Cannon or two (or switch one of your LC to a PC). That AP2 blast will scare those Purifiers. They do have frag grenades so the MH power on your RP doesn't reduce their Init but it does slow them down, use it as often as you can. Anything that gives you more time until they hit you in CC is better.

 

GK are doubly scary because they have x2 the shooting at 24" than you do (storm bolters), so you either want to be outside 24" or inside 13". If worse comes to worse and you cannot avoid being in charge range of the Purifiers: charge them. It sounds counter-intuitive, but you'll get a Pistol attack (or better) at S4, then 3 attacks per GH at S4, while denying them the extra Attack from charging. When you're out-matched in CC you want to try to reduce their number of attacks as much as possible. "Pop" your Wolf Banner, and hope to Russ that they wiff on their To Hit or To Wound rolls.

[Ash Tekka]

I reduced my greyhunters down in head count figuring that if they were all going to die anyway then I might as well spend less on them.

 

I think I may have been looking at it the wrong way. The purifiers seem to have two weaknesses 24" range and average mobility. If I force those two units to walk by popping the transports then I just have the DS terminators, interceptors, and callidus assassin to contend with but thos would probably target my LFs which hopefully would have done their job.

 

 

I'm thinking of actually changing my GH packs to 10 strong so I can get two meltas or plasmas and leaving them in the rhino for mobility.

 

Also thinking of dropping my LC for more ML and then adding some land speeders or bikes to harass his forces.

 

I think I may have gotten hung up on the "OMG I6 PW"...

 

and anyways my friend rolls terrible all the time so I probably dont have much to worry about:)

[Roland Durendal]

I fought a G army the other night. My advice? Pop his transports, then torrent they guys that were inside. GH squads backed up by LF packs and a roving TWC pack or two is solid. Basically use the Fangs to pop transports, and use frag missiles to force mass wounds and saves. If you've weakened demech'd Purifiers enough, or have no other option would I say use a GH squad at 12" to double tap them with bolters. Then either have the TWC swoop in to finish off what remains (in range) or accept the charge with the GH's.

 

Basic premise is inflict as many wounds as possible during shooting so that the blow during CC is lessened.

 

My $.02 anyhoo

[Blacksad]

ragnar and fenrisian wolves can also seriously bugger up their advantage (have 3 units of 15 wolves within Ragnar's range, scream, and they're I6 S5 units with 45 attacks a unit...)

[Brother_Byhlli]

ragnar and fenrisian wolves can also seriously bugger up their advantage (have 3 units of 15 wolves within Ragnar's range, scream, and they're I6 S5 units with 45 attacks a unit...)

 

Fenrisian Wolves with Furious Charge are only I5, sadly.

 

The Space Wolves Codex has six models that are I5 and so would strike at the same time as Grey Knights if they had Furious Charge and every single one of them is an HQ. None of our Packs can match I6 in combat.

 

One option is Terminators of your own. You know you're losing out on Initiative, so feel free to fill your squad with storm shields and thunder hammers. That's assuming, of course, that he's filling his entire squad with halberds.

 

Edit: actually, after thought, the idea of the Fenrisian Wolf Packs would rather mess up his advantage. You know he's going to hit you first in combat and you know he's going to ignore your armour, so taking masses of models as hugely ablative wounds and getting rid of the pricey power armour your standard guys are lugging around will do you favours. It'll also give you an increased charge range (I think?), so you can deny him his assault.

 

Assuming a squad of ten Grey Knights armed with halberds, you will lose an average of five models. That leaves you forty models striking back to do an average of ten wounds. That's one of his squads dead and you still have forty Fenrisian Wolves left. Three units would cost you 360 points.

 

Obviously there's the hassle of actually having to have forty-five Fenrisian Wolf models, but hey. It's an option!

[Blacksad]

one WGBL or WP with saga of the wolfkin, and they're I6 when assaulting. prolly should have mentioned this, but if I field wolves, I field and HQ with Saga of the wolfkin

[Brother_Byhlli]

one WGBL or WP with saga of the wolfkin, and they're I6 when assaulting. prolly should have mentioned this, but if I field wolves, I field and HQ with Saga of the wolfkin

 

Ahhhhh, nice. I hadn't seen that yet. I've read everything so far apart from the Sagas - will get on that right now. Seems like I'm missing some tasty treats there! Thanks for the clarification!

[Blacksad]

the sagas are droolyshious :(

[Ash Tekka]

I'm tempted to add wolves now:)

[Decoy]

Solve your problem like you should solve every other problem. Burn it with fire. In this case, Plasmas.

 

15 Plasma cannons will :rolleyes: up his day like a rabid baboon pissing in his Wheaties.

[Torin]

plasma is the solution. They are just termie holding halberg that can cut you to pieces...hihihi. I normally fill my long fang with 3ML 1LC 1PC. With 3 group of Long Fang, that would be sufficient killing power.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Well, yes, there is that. Your units are more expensive than the Fenrisian Wolves, though.

 

In fairness, the Long Fangs and the Fenrisian Wolves are cheap enough that you could max out on all of them. Pretty much guarantees you'll be taking out two or three of his units every turn and you've used 800-900 points which leaves you absolutely loads for taking Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard and all your other shiny toys you want so badly to take.

[breng77]

Just something to point out about the Fenrisian Wolf Strategy...against a purifier list it is pure fail, unless you have a runic weapon in range to shut down Cleansing flame (even then it is a risk that you will not block the power). IF you charge with those 45 wolves and get flamed you will lose ~19 before the Purifiers swing, the the purifiers (if 10) swing Doing 5 more wounds (24 Fenrisians dead), YOu have 21 left, (lets assume furious charge) 63 attacks, 32 hits, 21 wounds, which kills 7 Purifiers, you lose combat by 17, and all your squads (barring snakeyes) run away.

[Spacefrisian]

Bjorn and 3 runepriests.

 

If he stick that many points in his GK TDA unit than chances are the rest isnt that big, now you just put Bjorn in cc with those termies wich are Str6 if iam not mistaken. the 3 Runepriest are ment to prevent him from getting that hammerhand up.

[Spacefrisian]

Plz delete my double post.

[Brother_Byhlli]

Just something to point out about the Fenrisian Wolf Strategy...against a purifier list it is pure fail, unless you have a runic weapon in range to shut down Cleansing flame (even then it is a risk that you will not block the power). IF you charge with those 45 wolves and get flamed you will lose ~19 before the Purifiers swing, the the purifiers (if 10) swing Doing 5 more wounds (24 Fenrisians dead), YOu have 21 left, (lets assume furious charge) 63 attacks, 32 hits, 21 wounds, which kills 7 Purifiers, you lose combat by 17, and all your squads (barring snakeyes) run away.

 

This is why I need more Codexes. What's Cleansing Flame?

[breng77]

As an overview It is a psychic power specific to Purifiers, that wounds all enemy models involoved in combat on a 4+.

[Brother_Byhlli]

As an overview It is a psychic power specific to Purifiers, that wounds all enemy models involoved in combat on a 4+.

 

Hmmm.

 

Forget everything I said about Fenrisian Wolves. Long Fangs, Long Fangs, Long Fangs! Three packs of Wolf Scouts all armed with sniper rifles! Razorbacks with assault cannons or lascannons as dedicated transports to your Long Fangs! (Etc., etc., etc.!) Shoot those blighters! Pew-pew!*

 

 

*It's crucial, if playing a list like this, that you actually say "pew-pew" every time you shoot with a unit.

[breng77]

My thoughts would be.

 

1.) You will likely outnumber the Grey Knights, make use of it.

2.) With Long Fangs you will out range most GK shooting.

3.) Bring a rune priest, Psychic defense is key against grey knights, while they are still good without their psychic powers, they are great with them (hammerhand which is on every GK unit, makes them tons better in the assault, if they don't get it most of their units Hit on a 4+ and wound on a 4+.

[Levitas]

I've played a few games against Grey Knights and they are horrible. Psycannons and ammo will pop your rhinos really quick so watch how many points you pump into them. I've built up a plasma fang pack and upped the general amount of plasma in my list. Wolf tails and Rune Priests, but the priest are super vulnerable to mind strike missiles which are just cheap and dirty. He hits and they take a perils... no fun.

 

In short they are rough on wolves, with nemesis weapons to shut down thunder wolf cav, and halberds to make hunters think twice about getting into combat, plus lots of str 7 and up. They usually wont come in numbers though, so a redeemer isnt a bad idea either for taking out squads with AP3 templates. Maybe with a 15 man blood claw pack inside to absorb hits.

 

I really hate them with a passion. Good luck, and slam an axe in a skull or two for me.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I really hate them with a passion. Good luck, and slam an axe in a skull or two for me.

 

Mhm. They were one of my options for running an all-Terminator army (which is what eventually brought me to Space Wolves), but by God they're such whiny emo space-ponces it's untrue. Matt Ward thoroughly did a number on them. Seriously, that man shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Games Workshop development ever again. He just loves breaking things.

[Grey Mage]

I usually hittem with plasmahunters. After wound allocation Im usually left with the one GKTDA that wasnt wielding a halberd- the thunderhammer guy.

 

For Razorbacks theirs Typhoons and Long Fangs- stunlocking them is rough, but that just means it takes about twice as many shots and I need to be more 'on' with my target priority.

 

Against strike squads theirs still plasmahunters. Heck, theres also whirlwinds, dreadnaughts, assault cannons.... strike squads are no tougher than normal marines, just more expensive.

 

Havent faced pallidans yet really- just theory hammer there.

[breng77]

Wolf tails and Rune Priests, but the priest are super vulnerable to mind strike missiles which are just cheap and dirty.

 

They are? The only time I see mindstrike missiles are on Storm Ravens.