vs. grey knights with halbreds

[Levitas]

I really hate them with a passion. Good luck, and slam an axe in a skull or two for me.

 

Mhm. They were one of my options for running an all-Terminator army (which is what eventually brought me to Space Wolves), but by God they're such whiny emo space-ponces it's untrue. Matt Ward thoroughly did a number on them. Seriously, that man shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a Games Workshop development ever again. He just loves breaking things.

 

I agree. The models are gorgeous, but the rules, fluff and general imbalance of the dex are just ugly. Every time I beat them I feel an angel gets their wings or a looser wins the lottery.

 

Wolf tails and Rune Priests, but the priest are super vulnerable to mind strike missiles which are just cheap and dirty.

 

They are? The only time I see mindstrike missiles are on Storm Ravens.

 

Yeah, I think they only come on storm ravens. They feel cheap as most times we don't run RPs in terminator armor and cant take storm shields. Plus they have so many grenades to make psykers cry. Your really only taking RPs to try and shut down their powers. If there is a storm raven about and he's on foot then he'll get targeted quickly.

[Decoy]

I agree. The models are gorgeous, but the rules, fluff and general imbalance of the dex are just ugly. Every time I beat them I feel an angel gets their wings or a looser wins the lottery.

 

 

Beating the Gray Knights is doing a service to the 40K gaming community. I won't say that the rules are imbalanced... To be blunt, I've not lost to any Gray army list since they came out... but it's just worth it. "'Mankind's Elite' my ass. My suicidal, homicidal, Wulfen-Raged Lone Wolf just chewed ten of your 'Elite' apart with nothing but his bare hands and a beatin' stick. "

[breng77]

Yeah, I think they only come on storm ravens. They feel cheap as most times we don't run RPs in terminator armor and cant take storm shields. Plus they have so many grenades to make psykers cry. Your really only taking RPs to try and shut down their powers. If there is a storm raven about and he's on foot then he'll get targeted quickly.

 

And if you see a storm raven, it will likely get targeted equally quickly (Long Fangs should kill said Storm Raven Fairly Quickly I think, and if you keep the Rune Priest in a Vehicle this is a mood point.

[Levitas]

Yeah, I think they only come on storm ravens. They feel cheap as most times we don't run RPs in terminator armor and cant take storm shields. Plus they have so many grenades to make psykers cry. Your really only taking RPs to try and shut down their powers. If there is a storm raven about and he's on foot then he'll get targeted quickly.

 

And if you see a storm raven, it will likely get targeted equally quickly (Long Fangs should kill said Storm Raven Fairly Quickly I think, and if you keep the Rune Priest in a Vehicle this is a mood point.

 

I agree. And I executed the same plan when ever I see them. Usually they move flat out, gain a cover save and then line up to unload hurt in your face. Often at said long fangs. If the old men are taken out quickly its hard to bring them down as they laugh at melta. I like to go for the comedy and cinematic assaults with wolf scouts pulling vital wires and planting grenades.

 

A rune priest is not that safe in transport, not when they get so many psycannons and ammo upgrades. I mean the pyscannons are bad enough but its pure cheese they can upgrade other weapons with psi ammo too. Its Ward cheese.

[breng77]

Just remember that all those upgrades cost points, meaning that they will have a relatively small army, most squads need to have 10 men to have 2 psycannons (meaning 220 points minimum, 240 with the Psy ammo). I'm not saying that GKs cannot kill transports, but it is unlikely that they will have tons and tons of psycannons. Going for as many as possible I can get 29 Psycannons at 2000 points with a purifier list all on foot with very few close combat upgrades. (57 marines on foot, 24 with Psy ammo). The issue is that this list is vunerable to many other lists due to being all foot (SW ML spam could wreak havoc on this list with 30 + Missiles .

[Ash Tekka]

So I've got

2 rune priests

2 10 gh with 2 pg each with rhinos

1 5 gh with rhino

2 typhoon speeders

3 6 man lf with ml 2 with lc/tlpg razorbacks

 

 

That's a total of 19 missiles a turn and 2 living lightning a turn.

 

Thinking of dropping a pack if lf for a redeemer, or try to fit a plasma dread in somehow.

 

Should I go more like a foot slogging list since hel'll be coming at me anyways?

Is 2 rune priests too much?

[elithren]

With GK, shoot till they get to you. I faced an all purifier army with my TWC and long fang setup and I came out on top, batrep is somewhere in here. Plasma helps alot!

[Ash Tekka]

With GK, shoot till they get to you. I faced an all purifier army with my TWC and long fang setup and I came out on top, batrep is somewhere in here. Plasma helps alot!

 

how did the TWC fare against the purifiers? I was thinking they would be a waste since the purifiers would be swinging at I6 with power weapons with instant death as well.

[Levitas]

So I've got

2 rune priests

2 10 gh with 2 pg each with rhinos

1 5 gh with rhino

2 typhoon speeders

3 6 man lf with ml 2 with lc/tlpg razorbacks

 

 

That's a total of 19 missiles a turn and 2 living lightning a turn.

 

Thinking of dropping a pack if lf for a redeemer, or try to fit a plasma dread in somehow.

 

Should I go more like a foot slogging list since hel'll be coming at me anyways?

Is 2 rune priests too much?

 

You should be ok if you deploy deep and try and buy some shooting time with range. While your RPs have unlimited range, you do need them to be within nullify distance, which means that they can nullify you too. Shoot squads and then assault if they are small enough to handle to deny them the charge. But needless to say they will be packing power weapons so combat with them is always going to be sticky. Double tap plasma and focus fire to destroy entire units.

 

A few plasma cannons would be nice on the long fangs but work with what you have. Also if your RPs have wolf tails you get that extra nullify if its against the pack he's with.

 

Thunder wolves just dont do well with that many power weapons coming back at them, specially instant death causing ones. I'm sure they can work but there is less juicy targets in a GK list, other than epic scraps with Dread Knights.

 

At 2k I have a list designed to hinder Grey Knights. Its roughly.

 

2 RPs

2 gun dreads with plasma cannons and auto cannons

4 GH packs with melta/plas in rhinos and razor backs

1 big 15 man BC pack

3 long fangs packs, 1 with 5 plasma cannons the others with rockets

Typhoon

 

Shoot shoot shoot, then Blood claws absorb the assault when it comes and act as a bait unit. Grey hunters double tap.

[Ash Tekka]

2 RPs

2 gun dreads with plasma cannons and auto cannons

4 GH packs with melta/plas in rhinos and razor backs

1 big 15 man BC pack

3 long fangs packs, 1 with 5 plasma cannons the others with rockets

Typhoon

 

 

do you give the GH any upgrades like the banner or motw?

do the dreads each pack a plasma and auto cannon or is one plasma and the other autocannon?

[Brother_Byhlli]

2 RPs

2 gun dreads with plasma cannons and auto cannons

4 GH packs with melta/plas in rhinos and razor backs

1 big 15 man BC pack

3 long fangs packs, 1 with 5 plasma cannons the others with rockets

Typhoon

 

 

do you give the GH any upgrades like the banner or motw?

do the dreads each pack a plasma and auto cannon or is one plasma and the other autocannon?

 

My two cents, bearing in mind we're not discussing my list here:

 

I wouldn't give the Grey Hunters combat upgrades. Keep them cheap other than improving their ranged firepower. Against Grey Knights, combat is gonna sting, so putting extra points in it that you could otherwise put into ranged firepower is probably not worth it.

 

I don't think Dreadnoughts can carry two plasma cannons. One at the most, replacing the standard assault cannon.

[dswanick]

I think he means 2X Dreadnaughts w/ 1X PC and 1X AC each...

[Levitas]

2 RPs

2 gun dreads with plasma cannons and auto cannons

4 GH packs with melta/plas in rhinos and razor backs

1 big 15 man BC pack

3 long fangs packs, 1 with 5 plasma cannons the others with rockets

Typhoon

 

 

do you give the GH any upgrades like the banner or motw?

do the dreads each pack a plasma and auto cannon or is one plasma and the other autocannon?

 

Just a power weapon in the Hunters, its on the model so I take it, but the important part is the shooty. I totally agree that you you dont want too many points in them. I try and press home a numerical advantage combined with that second weapon.

 

Both dreads have plasma cannon and twin linked auto cannon.

 

Cover saves are everywhere in 5th, but its still nice to throw a lot of plasma at GKs.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I think he means 2X Dreadnaughts w/ 1X PC and 1X AC each...

 

Yup, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry if I wasn't clear. :D

[Ash Tekka]

ok I think this is about as shooty as it gets...

 

1 rune priest w/ chooser, wtt, ll, mh

1 rune priest w/ ll, mh

wolf scouts x5 w/sniper rifles

dreadnought w/ m.melta , wtn (plan on using him as a CC dread to smash deep striking units)

2 packs of 9 grey hunters w/ melta, motw, standard, rhino

1 typhoon

1 typhoon

2 long fang packs x5 ml w/razorback

1 long fang pack x5 ml

 

 

That's 19 missiles , 2 living lightning/murderous hurricane, and 5 sniper rifle shots per turn.

 

Contemplating pulling the wulfen + standards and using those points to upgrade one of the following:

1) dreadnought to plasma cannon

2) a razor back to lc+tlpg (or tllc)

3) add a wolf scout with a missile launcher(or another sniper rifle)

4) upgrade grey hunters to plasma guns instead of melta

 

I went with the wulfen+standard for right now figuring that will give me the most bang for my buck in assault if I have to sacrifice either of those units to delay him. however I'm having second thoughts after looking at the list of things I could spend those points on...

 

My game is tonight with my GK friend and a CSM friend so I may tweak it a little while I'm at work so feel free to chime in...

 

I don't think I've ever used this many missiles before...its almost comical:)

[breng77]

That list is not legal, your RPs cannot have the same powers. Also that is not near as shooty as you can get. You want shooty and a list that could give issues to GKs

 

Logan

 

Rune Priest (Living Lightning, Murderous)

 

3 x 6 Long Fangs w/ 5 ML

 

2 x 10 Wolf Guard (2 termies with Cyclones, 5 Combi-Plasma, 2 Combi-melta)

 

4 x 5 Wolf Guard (1 Cyclone Termi, 3 Combi Plasma, 1 Combi-melta)

 

 

So you have 31 Missile Shots, Living Lightning, and one turn of 24 Plasma shots, and 9 Melta shots.

 

Against a heavy Terminator list you could run into some issues (though the plasma guns should help.

 

THe Rune Priest lessens the impact of GK powers, against mech you are taking down most GK armor pretty quick, if the GKs are on foot you are killing 17 GKs a turn just with missiles unless they have cover. Once they get squads into 24" range you move up and Rapid Fire all your plasma.

[Ash Tekka]

That list is not legal, your RPs cannot have the same powers.

I always forget that since I don't normally run 2 RPs, and Army builder doesn't flag the powers only the equipment...

[Grimtooth]

Sure iy has been said, but it is a valid point: the are still SM and die like SM.

 

My approach so far has just been volume of fire followed up by assault. You are going to get nailed at I6 anyway, so reduce the number of those I6 attacks by any means possible. Volume of fire, tank shocks, crafty assault formations, throwing rocks/tables/mugs, and etc, etc. Getting the assault is way more important then getting the counter-attack.

 

Lastly, don't even think about tossing multi-wound models into the mix. Single wound squads are all you are ever going to want to throw at halberds, even if your multi-wound pack gets the charge. I watched a SW player throw a fairly big TWC pack with thunderlord at a GK unit that only had ONE halberd left in it. That ONE halberd was enough to activate ID on everything else and practically wipe out all the TWC.

[Ash Tekka]

I usually kill moat sms by punching them in the face till they fall over it run away. The halbreds kinda make that not as efficient as usual...

[Loathir's Own]

If he begins to look at B&CS he will find that Termies and Purifies are not the best thing a GK player can get.

 

He will eventually be fielding a similar list to:

 

HQ:

Ordos Xenos Inq.- Rad grenades and Force weapon

Ordos Xenos Inq.- Rad grenades and Force weapon

Elites:

Henchmen- 8 death cult assassins, 1 banshier w/ Evicerator

Henchmen- same

Troops:

GK SS- 10 strong, 2 psycannons, psbolts, (some say DH others don't)

Rhino

GK SS- same

Rhino

FA:

Storm Raven (DCA goes here)

Storm Raven

Hsup:

Psyrilemen dread

Psyriflemen dread

 

All that is 1680 so there will be other stuff in the list but that sucks to face. That is 2 squads of I6 S5 (oh and I forgot having 4 attacks each) power weapons reducing you to T3 meanwhile shooting down any return fire with 32 S5 shots and on the move 8 S7 rending shots coming in at 24" or less. Most people will shoot at the SRs and therefore eliminate one before being swamped by the other. There usually is not enough shooting to take out both and if some one where to play with the list comp they could easily make one purifiers or paladins and the other have a Libby giving it a 5+ cover save every turn.

 

DCAs are like Mepheston easy to kill once they are out in the open but almost impossible to get there. They are also like mepheston in points comp, land raider for ONE squad with the Inquisitor and a quarter of the transport. The last way they are like Mephy is once you start playing them no one will want to play you.

 

Lastly I usually ignore the cc potential of anything short of a squad of 6-7 halberds being that they are marines with 2 attacks at S4 unless they choose to not to FW or CFlame or make themselves s5. I charge it and laugh at the 3 or 4 that die and then beat them in cc. The only thing that purifiers do that worries me is charge but with there lack of mobility I would say you usually will either shoot down enough to take acceptable losses or counter charge them after loosing a squad. The Fearless helps which makes them impossible to skirt off the board, but if you cause enough wounds they will go down easy and with their expensive price tag they will have to kill a lot to make that back.

[breng77]

While I agree that DCA are good, I don't think the above list is near the best GK list that can be fielded. It lacks a lot of the shooting that makes the GK book great. I also think that there are plenty of books that are capable of stopping 2 storm ravens, should they get turn 1. In addition should one of those storm ravens blow up the passengers will die (T3 and a 5+ is very fragile). In addition many armies will feed the squad that makes it across the table a squad (which will die) and then torrent the DCA to death.

 

Also a GK libby can never give a storm raven a 5+ cover save it will either be 3+(if it naturally has cover) or 6+(if it doesn't)

 

Purifiers are not that expensive for what you get, you say that you will shoot them down, and that they lack mobility (the have the same mobility as DCA.). Purifiers also get halberds cheap enough to almost always take them, and this makes them better than any other marine in CC with 2 I6 attacks each at S5 (if you are swinging at marines you will almost always go for hammer hand).

[Torin]

Well i dont see the GK as a problem. They are just termie with high INI. The idea of having 3 pack of long Fang with 2ML & 3 PC is scary enough for the GK... you think they dont think twice coming in to 36". With 9 Plasma Canon. that only 510pts for 6ml & 9PC.

 

One way which i have learn when facing such foe is having a sacrficial squad. Just a squad at min size and another at full strength with 2 plasma gun about 8" behind. For some scare factor put in a Demolisher.. place him behind some building or terrain then pop up later once the have killed your sacrifial squad since they will be piled up close together. But i still prefer the long fang pack. Just my 2 cents.

 

cheers.

[elithren]

Sorry, afk for the week and didn't get around to replying to the question about my TWC. In short, he either can cast hammerhand to be able to would, T5 really hurting them as far as that goes, and they have to choose to user hammerhand or the force weapon, can't use both. Granted, I did try to have my RP in support range to cancel the test, but when my opponent opted to use his force weapon, he would only cause one or two wounds tops. Put those on your 3++ stormshield and you're good the majority of the time. If he uses hammerhand, then he can wound on 4+, but can't instant kill and either way, you get your trusty stormshield save!

 

 

Addition: Remember, a stormraven moving flat out that suffers a wrecked, immobilized, or destroyed result means everyone inside dies as to the BRB FAQ. Good bye death company stormraven with dread attached ^^.

[breng77]

Addition: Remember, a stormraven moving flat out that suffers a wrecked, immobilized, or destroyed result means everyone inside dies as to the BRB FAQ. Good bye death company stormraven with dread attached ^^.

 

Remember that this only occurs during the turn of the player controlling the storm raven, meaning that if he is dumb enough to move flat out and finish his move in terrain, fail the dangerous terrain check, and crash then yeah he loses the squad, otherwise everyone inside disembarks.

[eyeslikethunder]

Addition: Remember, a stormraven moving flat out that suffers a wrecked, immobilized, or destroyed result means everyone inside dies as to the BRB FAQ. Good bye death company stormraven with dread attached ^^.

 

Remember that this only occurs during the turn of the player controlling the storm raven, meaning that if he is dumb enough to move flat out and finish his move in terrain, fail the dangerous terrain check, and crash then yeah he loses the squad, otherwise everyone inside disembarks.

 

 

can happen with tempests wrath.