Brother Ambroz Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Make Abby's sword & talon ignore all saves ( regular and invuln) and ID. Then we'd have a character tougher than Draigo! Anyways I think we should get some options like Vanguard or Sternguard just not carbon SM copies. Try to chaosify them, like make possessed be able to choose flying/beastial cc or some sort of shooty? I think they should put a limit on DPs, one to an army again and just make them slightly tougher, that way people would have a reason to use a Lord or Sorc again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2845773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Delias Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I concur with DPs being much rarer in armies. Two in a simple battleforce seems rather much to me, especially considering that a daemon prince has a tenuous at best hold within the material realm. It makes little sense to me to have daemon princes EVERYWHERE. For my own right, I only have plans for one, yes, only one daemon prince, in my entire CHAPTER of chaos marines. The bulk of the rest of the companies are being commanded by either Lords or Sorcerers, and no, I don't care if they are not as good as a DP, DPs are supposed to be rare for a reason... much the same way as I detested seeing the battles of abbadon, against himself... It was annoying to me, and still is now. Only now I get it with marine players spamming specials... at least they have enough specials that you usually only see one of each at small tournaments... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2845794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Make Abby's sword & talon ignore all saves ( regular and invuln) and ID. Then we'd have a character tougher than Draigo! You realize this is the first codex where Drach'nyen doesn't give him an extra attack that ignores all saves and auto-wounds, and will auto-penetrate any vehicle it hits? His old attack profile was something like 3+1, where the +1 was Drach'nyen. Oh, and he also never had a chance of hitting himself either because he was just *that* leet. Anyways I think we should get some options like Vanguard or Sternguard just not carbon SM copies. Try to chaosify them, like make possessed be able to choose flying/beastial cc or some sort of shooty? I think they should put a limit on DPs, one to an army again and just make them slightly tougher, that way people would have a reason to use a Lord or Sorc again.For a Legions list, I don't really like this idea. Why can't we just get the old summoned daemons back, and make them not suck? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2846278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Yes actually I did know that giles. I have 3, 3.5 and 4th ed codexes in this very room, although he always inflicted instant death you were always allowed invulns. It was a joke in reply to someone else. Because summoned daemons don't apply to everyone for one. The whole point of a "legion" codex would be to personify the legions and make them unique from the cults and the current "renegade" codex. Two, they've already got a separate codex for daemons and unless they're going to be making options for bloodcrushers and the like (which wouldn't be fluffy for many armies besides WE, BL and WB) I guarantee there would be alot of pissed off people because alot of the old models they purchased for the daemon codex would be worthless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2846515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCHAOS Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 What would work for me: First things first I know we are Chaos BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET RID OF THE RANDOMNESS! Possessed: If you could choose what powers your Possessed could have then people would use them, plus think of the conversion potential. Dreads: Again who wants to have a model that they dont know what its going to do, i.e kill your own models Daemonic Weapons: O look here's our Chaos Lord, the Destroyer of planets, the killer of untold Imperials, oops hes just killed himself with his own weapon. If they do make that choice again then at least make it tempting i.e Chaotic/Experimental weapons that the Imperials would never touch, they should be able to blow whole squads apart if I'm going to risk loosing something to myself. I didnt like the way how Chaos Marines have moved away from mutations, i.e CSM with Mace/Scorpion tails, inbuilt guns Obliterator style, you know the things that people used to do to convert there models. Now all we are is bad loyalists with a bit of pointy bling on our armour, Chaos has always been about conversion work and what crazy idea's we could come up with and I would like to go back to them days. I really really hope that GW dont stuff up the Legion Codex, then once again I can move back to what got me into the Hobby in the first place! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2847114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Daemonic Weapons: O look here's our Chaos Lord, the Destroyer of planets, the killer of untold Imperials, oops hes just killed himself with his own weapon. There's a guy at my gaming club who frequently runs Abaddon, and is notorious for Abaddon being killed or made completely useless by his daemon weapon all the time. For this reason, Abaddon is considered a joke at the club. Hopefully, like you say, this will get mended withe the next Codex - basically, your opponent should soil themselves with fear when you deploy him on the Table top, not thorugh laughter... ;) ;) :pirate: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2847233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Delias Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm guessing you haven't seen a Khorne lord mince an entire squad yet have you? Khornates are the only thing I fear when I play ork hordes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liba terminatus Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agree on khorne lords, I used the bloodfeeder to wipe out draigo on 15 attacks :D My opponent literally jaw dropped when he asked how many attacks I had (I told him 3+2d6). He died a little inside after that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 aaah, how I miss the old 2nd ed Khorne lords in termie armour... 2+ save on 2d6 with a reroll if failed... ...or just khorne termies with a 2+ save on 2d6... ..or just ordinary termies with 3+ on 2d6... Back when terminators were hard to kill... (forgot to mention the frenzy, giving him double attacks, lol) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 First things first I know we are Chaos BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET RID OF THE RANDOMNESS!I've noticed most of the people who clamor for randomness either aren't chaos players, or want to build excessively silly lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Multi-choice is the expriencd man's randomness Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I've noticed most of the people who clamor for randomness either aren't chaos players, or want to build excessively silly lists. The designer notes of the previous codex even stated that the reason they made stuff like, for example, Possessed into the "buy an upgrade" version was precisely the reason people don't take them now, it's hard to build a proper list when you don't know what most of your stuff will be doing. Orks are random, but they have the numbers to make up for it, and their randomness is more precise, if that makes sense. A shokk attack gun is random, but you always know what it's going to be good at, and is pretty cheap. Possessed, on the other hand, can change dramatically in role depending on their ability, so while they'll always be choppy, you don't know in what way they'll be choppy. To put it another way, Chaos should be random (varied would be a better word), yes, but not unpredictable. Chaos is random(/varied) in the sense that that Terminator over there might have a tentacle instead of an arm tomorrow, but that tentacle will stay there, he won't regrow his arm but gain wings just before the next battle. Orks are unpredictable, Chaos should not be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2849897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think Possessed could be the new vanguard/death company/wolf guard for chaos if given the right abilities. They have so much potential as a cool/fluffy unit. I agree completely with getting rid of the randomness, it's just retarded and you can not build a dependable list when you don't know what you're buying with a random unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think Possessed could be the new vanguard/death company/wolf guard for chaos if given the right abilities. They have so much potential as a cool/fluffy unit. I agree completely with getting rid of the randomness, it's just retarded and you can not build a dependable list when you don't know what you're buying with a random unit.Four thousand chaos players demand point-buy possessed, ten thousand players of everything else demand random possessed. If GW has no way to tell the feedback is from chaos players, then guess whose demands are met? Maybe we should start demanding stupid junk for everyone else's codex? Random movement for Dark Eldar Talos and 'Cron Scarabs, Blood Angels cannot sweeping advance because they're too busy exsanguinating their victims, Space Wolves take the slower of the two dice when moving thru forests because they're sniffing and spraying every tree? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Maybe we should start demanding stupid junk for everyone else's codex? Random movement for Dark Eldar Talos and 'Cron Scarabs, Blood Angels cannot sweeping advance because they're too busy exsanguinating their victims, Space Wolves take the slower of the two dice when moving thru forests because they're sniffing and spraying every tree? If you draw up the paperwork, I'll crack on with the door knocking.....let's get this thing done lol :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hahahaha that's great darth I'm going to use that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddnes666 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I agree on khorne lords, I used the bloodfeeder to wipe out draigo on 15 attacks :blink: My opponent literally jaw dropped when he asked how many attacks I had (I told him 3+2d6). He died a little inside after that... khorne lord with bloodfeeder has 4+2d6 not 3+2d6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liba terminatus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I agree on khorne lords, I used the bloodfeeder to wipe out draigo on 15 attacks :devil: My opponent literally jaw dropped when he asked how many attacks I had (I told him 3+2d6). He died a little inside after that... khorne lord with bloodfeeder has 4+2d6 not 3+2d6 I knew that :) but he was just starting so I made it a ...bit... Easier for him :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Grius Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Well my giant target (Khorne Lord) is on a huge target (Juggernaut) so he has 6+2d6 when he charges. I actually think it is excessive when it works, and incredibly frustrating when it doesn't. I would be happy with a Daemon weapon that is toned down but doesn't hit me 1/3 of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I think Possessed could be the new vanguard/death company/wolf guard for chaos if given the right abilities. They have so much potential as a cool/fluffy unit. I agree completely with getting rid of the randomness, it's just retarded and you can not build a dependable list when you don't know what you're buying with a random unit. I use my Chosen squads as pseudo wolfguard. If I want an extra flamer, melta or plasma gun, or swap out a power fist for a power weapon, there's a chosen who can step in. That goes with being a Nightblade though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 What would really be nice is to lose the stereotypical villian twirling his moustache and laughing manaically approach tbh, that and to give Abaddon some awesome points instead of being a complete and utter failure as many fluff points says he is, the guy is the only one since Horus to unite the Legions against the Imperium. He should be downright feared when you place him on the table but instead we get bets and jokes on when he will slap himself in the face with his daemon sword... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2850706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'm sure Legions will not return. Never return. They're shattered and fight each other and fight Imperium only when Abbadon calls (except Alpha Legion and Word Bearers). On the other hand Huron created an empire to be reckoned with, his Red Corsairs can have less numbers and experience than Legions but not ferocity, fury and equipment. Huron is feared by the Imperium and even Legions have to reckon with him. So such csm as he can fight Imperium instead of Legions (except Abbadon, of course). So i think fluff will change according to that. And we will never be so as strong as loyalists but our new codex well surely be awesome according to the new tendency (Tyranids or DE for example). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2851083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 So, you could have Legions as the few elite hunters, fighting with millenia of experience, while Huron gathers what seems to be a small empire, and enough marines to be called a legion. I don't know, i've always felt that Chaos needs to be taken more seriously, with more emphasis on the Legions, which do still recruit and train their soldiers, with some of them (iron hands) actually seeming to still be organised and deployed as per the Great Crusade, although the nature of Chaos means there are still warbands, joining together and splitting according to their beliefs or the charisma of their leaders. The fluff should be more showing the evil, harsher nature of Chaos, and less of the 'Haha, my plan comes together-Damnit, i'll get you next time you meddling kids....' which is what 90% of their leaders seem to be. You think ten thousand years of war would make them slightly better than their relatively young enemies. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2851093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 So, you could have Legions as the few elite hunters, fighting with millenia of experience, while Huron gathers what seems to be a small empire, and enough marines to be called a legion. Chosen're essentially those legionnaires. Esp. from the previous codex. I don't know, i've always felt that Chaos needs to be taken more seriously, with more emphasis on the Legions, which do still recruit and train their soldiers, with some of them (iron hands) actually seeming to still be organised and deployed as per the Great Crusade, although the nature of Chaos means there are still warbands, joining together and splitting according to their beliefs or the charisma of their leaders. Of course he must be taken more seriously, but Legions're not his only forces. Now forces of Chaos and Abbadon consist of many csm, not only legionnaires. And situation grows worse as they easily fight each other and generally still only Dark Hosts of WB and warbands of AL remember about the Long War. And i must say that Iron Hands're loyalist. D'you mean Iron Warriors? The fluff should be more showing the evil, harsher nature of Chaos Chaos ain't evil as Imperium ain't good. In our world and so in Warhammer there're no evil and good forces, there's only war between rival factions fighting for their own reasons. And most of Chaos leaders, if they get victories, slay and slave hole populations of conquered worlds, often razing them to dust. Is it not enough? You think ten thousand years of war would make them slightly better than their relatively young enemies. No, i don't think so and hope our ten or so thousand years veterans will be shown in the new codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2851146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-around-the-roses Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Sorry, yeah, meant Iron Warriors. And ten thousand years of fighting should make them much better than their relative loyalist brothers. The original Legionnaires should (fluffwise, not gamewise, well maybe gamewise slighlty :o ) be as good as honour gaurd. I kinda imagine them just walking through a scout squad, disarming them and killing them with sharp, measured blows all the while moaning about how useless this millenia's Astartes. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233328-the-overall-decline-of-chaos/page/3/#findComment-2851150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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