Menkeroth Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Fully agreed! Nothing to add <_< And gamewise it'd good) At least Initiative should be 5 or 6 (and even more with Mark of Slaanesh!). Oh, by the way. Is it really true that we get our codex in the March and 6th edition in summer? It makes me very suspicious that GW will make the same mistake as in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liba terminatus Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Well that is the Rumour and I'm fine for it being then... I just hope tzeentch doesn't pull a fast one on us... Or it will end worse then slaanesh on happy pills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 As i know, Architect of Fates doesn't want to be in a hurry and awaits a good moment to release the codex. So it can be that it will be released later... I only praise to Him in order to not to have the same situation that already were... But i'm sure it will end happily for us :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZ_AV_NZ Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Chaos renegade army lists were the prior release to focus more so on Marine armies turned renegade. The old legions were forgotten in a way. Now the old legions are coming back in force with a new rule set with there huge resources being focused on fighting necrons and tyranids which Id imagine will be threatening there own realms, The Imperium is in decline in the 6th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Is it true? :angry: it'd be interesting... though i think their own codex (for Legions) ain't a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Is it true? :P it'd be interesting... though i think their own codex (for Legions) ain't a good idea... Why not? you could still have plenty of warbands composed of a single legion, much like ADB's night lords. Also if you read Blood Reaver, you can see Huron and the red corsairs from one of the legion's perspectives. For the most part I think the CSM players play one of the legions more often than renegades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think so 'cause i collect the renegade chapter that will be played with the current codex. If we get the Legions one so the current one will again be forgotten for a long time. It ain't good for me and those who play Black Legion or their own warbands... When i was starting in the hobby i was also very keen on Legions, esp. Iron Warriors. But then i realised that their time has gone away, Chaos must now change, it can't always count on Legions. It's now time for those like Huron who created an empire even for Legions to be reckoned with. And i realised i like such csm much more than old ones ;) May be 'cause of this i'm full of energy and hopes for future as true follower of the Lord of Knowledge must be) and i'm sure Chaos will return. But with not Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The legions themselves are gone for the most part, but there are still warbands of legionnaires which is what most people (myself included) I think are keen to be able to represent on the tabletop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Maybe. But they can also be presented in the general codex, with two or three pages per legion - and than all chaotic players will be satisfied, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It ain't good for me and those who play Black Legion or their own warbands... but it was all good when EC and undivided legions lost all their flavor/rules/playabilty ? There were always more legion players then warband players , even now with the beyond suck codex people still cling to legions as main force . The new dex and the whole focus on huron didnt spawn countless corsiar armies , if anything the number of chaos players droped by a lot . It's now time for those like Huron who created an empire even for Legions to be reckoned with which fluff wise makes no sense how he did it considering he sits near one of the best organized and structured legion the WB. specialy as he started with more or less nothing after he lost his home planet . Him as a pirate , maybe even a warlord made sense . him as the leader of 10k followers and ambushing legion vessels and not getting punished doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchort Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think so 'cause i collect the renegade chapter that will be played with the current codex. If we get the Legions one so the current one will again be forgotten for a long time. It ain't good for me and those who play Black Legion or their own warbands... I can't imagine that the premier Traitor Legion, the Black Legion, is going to be left out of that book in any way or form. I'd be surprised if they weren't expanded upon tenfold, in the same manner as the Ultramarines in the SM codex, truth be told. I play Black Legion and I'm very much looking forward to the rumoured Traitor Legions dex. When i was starting in the hobby i was also very keen on Legions, esp. Iron Warriors. But then i realised that their time has gone away, Chaos must now change, it can't always count on Legions. It's now time for those like Huron who created an empire even for Legions to be reckoned with. And i realised i like such csm much more than old ones :) Sorry, but one of the major complaints of the Renegade centric CSM codex is exactly that, that it's Renegade centric. As Jeske pointed out, the Legions are what are popular, and with things like the Horus Heresy novels, this can only grow. Hell, how many people play Renegades that are just spin-offs of the Traitor Legions? The story of the struggle between the ancient Traitor Legions and the Imperium is at the heart of 40k (and if rumours are to believed will be even more true come 6th edition) and is much more interesting and has more depth than sergeants who go native or Space Wolves who turn heel at the drop of a hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 but it was all good when EC and undivided legions lost all their flavor/rules/playabilty ? There were always more legion players then warband players , even now with the beyond suck codex people still cling to legions as main force . The new dex and the whole focus on huron didnt spawn countless corsiar armies , if anything the number of chaos players droped by a lot . Ha! You haven't seen those times. But my friends have. And many on the WarForge too. Fluff didn't change much from thosе times, they'd lost only rules. And those rules were doom for the balance - the most players chose BL, WB for their daemons and IW for their obliterators and Basilisks and Vindicators with indirect fire. Ah, and EC for their daemon-bomb. which fluff wise makes no sense how he did it considering he sits near one of the best organized and structured legion the WB. specialy as he started with more or less nothing after he lost his home planet . Him as a pirate , maybe even a warlord made sense . him as the leader of 10k followers and ambushing legion vessels and not getting punished doesnt. Kor Phaeron and his WBs don't help Huron, they can't even help themselves - they generally produce weapons, ammo and such for themselves and forces of Lorgar. And you don't know the fluff so go away. I repeat - he created an empire to be reckoned with, it's fluff from GW. And he does have a large and mighty army with lot of gene-seed after destroying the Vilamus and defeating the Marines Errant. He ambushes and capture whole convoys, he's even captured the Wolf of Fenris. But it doesn't matter for you as you don't know the fluff. Sorry, but one of the major complaints of the Renegade centric CSM codex is exactly that, that it's Renegade centric... Yes, from the Legions players) old rules of theirs're gone, so it's not surprising. But you're right, sadly. And if so, current codex will be again forgotten in the darkness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The fluff has changed dramatically menkeroth. The current dex had next to NOTHING about anything other than renegades. The jeske does know what he's talking about by the way. GW doesn't care about balance they only care about their sales, haven't you seen the new GK codex? Exactly they don't help huron if anything they would hinder/attack him. They're one of the few legions that is still a semi-functioning legion and most legions don't especially like the renegades. So really that fluff about huron really doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Is it true? :ph34r: it'd be interesting... though i think their own codex (for Legions) ain't a good idea... Why not? you could still have plenty of warbands composed of a single legion, much like ADB's night lords. Also if you read Blood Reaver, you can see Huron and the red corsairs from one of the legion's perspectives. For the most part I think the CSM players play one of the legions more often than renegades. After reading that and First Heretic, I actually imagined a scenario where my Warband's leaders are in essentially a bar where they are being mocked for not having fought on Terra, and the usual crap-when my Warband's leader pretty much just yawns and says something like "You guys are our biggest heroes-we literally have murals of your primarchs and Robute Guillman and just touch ourselves and cry daily, because not only will we never be Ultramarines-having not come from Guillman's genestock-something we've been dealing with since our Chapter was made, but we won't be Original Traitor Legions either. Frankly, if we weren't out doing stuff, we'd have washed our mouths out with a bolter. You guys are like the old people who go on about 'Back in my day...' stories. Just DIE already, or go do something." They have a self-defeating attitude in general though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Wow... Someone saying the Jeske doesn't know what he's talking about... Wow... You... You're actually saying the Jeske doesn't understand what Chaos lost, rules or fluff-wise? He's one of the most influential posters here about Chaos, both fluff and rules-wise. Dude, I try to support the new people as much as I can, but don't come on here making accusations against people with significant experience both on this site and playing the game, that they don't know what they're talking about. Speaking for myself, the Chaos codex is bland as all hell, both rules and fluff-wise. To say that the Word Bearers are nothing but factory-workers is plain wrong. While the Legions have fractured, have a look at Soul Hunter/Blood Reaver to get a good look at how your warbands operate. The Legions still exist, just not as unified forces. You say the Corsairs are awesome because they took a single Strike Cruiser? Perhaps you should have a look at the fluff youself, and see that it's nothing to be proud of. Woo, they captured one of the smallest sorts of ships in an Astartes fleet! During the Babad War, the Astral Claws decimated entire Astartes fleets. Even the Legions you ridicule so much have achieved much, much more. For example, let's have a look at the Gothic War. I see your Wolf of Fenris, and raise you two Blackstone Fortresses. To date, Huron's biggest accomplishment is the destruction of a fortress monastery protected by only a skeleton crew. The Legions ravaged the galaxy, and still are doing so. Huron is a pirate. A well-equipped pirate with a large army, but a pirate none-the-less. Perhaps if you read some background yourself, beyond the Renegade Codex, you might actually see that, and learn not to make baseless accusations about others. Yes, the previous codex wasn't perfect. However, the answer to that wasn't to drastically reduce the size of the book, and shift the focus away from what the majority of players wanted. Yes, the Legions are shattered. However, they shattered into warbands that, more often than not, are organised around Legion allegiances, changing, for example, the Night Lords 10th Company into the Exalted's Warband. Both are parts of the Legion, the only thing that really changed is the naming, and a warband must be more self-sufficient. Other than that, not much changed. Now to wait for the Jeske's reply. This should be good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 *shamelessly jumps on the 'Defend the Jeske bandwagon'* Ive gotta say that after reading posts here for over a year now, calling out the Jeske for 'not knowing his stuff' is proper comedy. Whilst he does have a tendency to repeatedly lament the state of our current dex regarding limitations to army composition (with regards to winning games not funsies), he's a pretty knowledgable person with regards to rules, builds AND fluff. It's probably a good idea to check post counts and previous contributions before ill advisedly calling out a stalwart of the chaos forums :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ha! You haven't seen those times. :P how about you check since when am posting here. repeat - he created an empire to be reckoned with, it's fluff from GW. so is draigo soloing the holy places of chaos gods . Doesnt change the fact that both dont make much sense . Great powers dont accept or tolerate other growing or even existing next to them . Even If a force gains the dominant position it doesnt just stay there thinking ok , now that we beat all the others we can have peace . No they destroy everything that is not theirs till there is nothing left. as to who did more awesome stuff. Even counting the new Gav dex and the stuff from BL , here is some of the stuff legions did lately . The NL wiped out a whole planet just to find one of their old leaders and the Cruz corona nox. The AL infiltrated a loyalist chapter to a point when they gained whole control of it . The IW looted one of the biggest stock piles of gene seed outside of Mars which both fueled the gothic crusade of abadon and the 13th . This is post heresy stuff ,that even if we take the new warbands fluff and forget the 3.5 and IA fluff , means the legions made bigger stuff on larger scale , which for some may make it more awesome . taking a ship ? that is nothing [actualy huron destroyed a whole undefended agri world too , just for the sacrifices ] compering to whole sector crusades or incrusions that ended with whole planet systems being purged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'd just like to state that my post was about a funny thought I had about my Warband's characters reacting to the typical Legionary's "We're better than you/We fought on Terra/we conquered x worlds for the Imperium" tirades they are so fond of. And I get the impression that the larger Warbands of Legions are drawing in the "new recruits" of Marine Renegades. The Black Legion seems real big on 'assimilation' down to folks adopting elements of their color scheme to show allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCHAOS Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The current Chaos Codex is just turd, and its probably the biggest de-motivator of the hobby for me. Heres the way I see it in its basic form bare with me: Old Dex: Iron Warriors Chaos Lord (I don't know the Kai gun or whatever,bionic parts) 1x CSM Squad, Champion with servo arm 1x CSM Squad, Champion with servo arm Deathguard Chaos Lord (Plague sword, mutations, plus hes also a plague marine) 1x PM Squad 1x PM Squad World Eaters Chaos Lord (Berzerker glaive, hes also World Eater and a Zerker) 1x Berzerker Squad 1x Berzerker Squad Word Bearers Chaos Lord (Now a Dark Apostle with correct wargear) 1xCSM Squad 1xUnit of non generic Daemons Alpha Legion Chaos Lord (Again any Gifts from a whole page full) 1x CSM Squad 1x Cultist Squad I could carry on if I wanted, but I'm just scratching the surface, even though its just a Lord and two units every one could look different and have effects on the Table Top. Current Dex: Iron Warriors <<<Painted Silver Chaos Lord 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword Black Legion <<<Painted Black Chaos Lord 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword Word Bearers <<<Painted Red Chaos Lord 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword Nightlords <<<Painted Blue Chaos Lord 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword 1x CSM Squad Champ with powerfist/power sword World Eaters Chaos Lord (who's NOT a World Eater) 1x Berzerker Squad 1x Berzerker Squad Deathguard Chaos Lord (Who's NOT Deathguard) 1x Plague Marine Squad 1x Plague Marine Squad Where is the motivation in that? Chaos Lords Can have a power weapon with extra rules, or there full blown Daemon Princes. And don't even get me started on the 2x Slaneshi DP leading a World Eater warband Complete and utter turd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think what GW intended as we already know is that the Legions are gone, all that remains are Warbands who seek there own glory and unite when told or forced too. The problem here though is GW's fluff on the Legions, as it is all awesome, it's what makes us choose which to collect and play as. What really needs clearing up is the warband approach they are trying just doesnt work and make sense, we know they recruit but how do they since there are no apoths, we know they can get to worlds but how do they land troops and drop pods? this is what Space Marines are famed for but when you become a warband you somehow forget about years of training and warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think what GW intended as we already know is that the Legions are gone, all that remains are Warbands who seek there own glory and unite when told or forced too. *cough* Word Bearers..... Word Bearers still function pretty well as a legion. As do the Iron Warriors to a degree. The dedicated 'Four' are pretty fractal but some of us maintain a semblance of unity :) Saa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think what GW intended as we already know is that the Legions are gone, all that remains are Warbands who seek there own glory and unite when told or forced too. *cough* Word Bearers..... Word Bearers still function pretty well as a legion. As do the Iron Warriors to a degree. The dedicated 'Four' are pretty fractal but some of us maintain a semblance of unity :) Saa Well we all can't have a Primarch who is still relatively sane now can we :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCHAOS Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 They need to move forwards with the Special Characters fluff we have had since 2nd Ed. Bile for instance cares not for the Codex hence he has a whole planet for growing new Marines *Blood Angel Books Spoiler* Bile has loads of clones of himself, and like above has thousands upon thousands of new marines being vat grown on his planet. What ruins the current codex the most is Codex creep, and what I really don't want to see is the same for the next Codex and 6th Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 They need to move forwards with the Special Characters fluff we have had since 2nd Ed.Bile for instance cares not for the Codex hence he has a whole planet for growing new Marines That's old news; during the 3.5 era he was established as the "only" source for new Chaos Space Marines, forcing the Legions to work with him to replenish their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayurst Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 As a long time chaos player, I was no fan of the new CSM codex when it came out. I was happy to see the chaos daemon codex arrive, but really disappointed when the legions lost their unique flavors. As the most dedicated chaos player in our local group, I was torn. We try to play with the most current rules and concepts to allow those who are regular tournament participants have as much local practice as possible. Yet we had long running campaigns we did not just want to derail and throw out. I still have my 2500 world eaters, 1500 points of 3rd edition Alpha Legion, 1700 points of Thousand Sons, 2000 points of Khorne Daemons, and my traitor guard using the Servants of Slaughter list from Imperial Armor 6. Sometimes I put elements of it together when people want to do a 13th Black Crusade battle or not. For the most part I won't play chaos marines in tournament. But will play them in local campaigns, even though with the alpha legion I insist on using 3rd edition codex rules so the infiltration army concept makes sense. Still, even with the new codex Chaos has a bite. We had a recent series of games with one of the other players trying to get ready for a game convention tournament with his Blood angel list. It was amusing to remind him that while the current CSM codex might be less than stellar, that does not mean you can ignore a well played army. It still comes down more to the player than the army list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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