Brother Valerius Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Title says it all. While not as weighty as a GW FAQ, my FLGS has a standing rule that the INAT FAQ is used for store events, so it's good to see an update covering some GK questions that GW didn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 What on earth is an INAT FAQ, and why have you not provided a link? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Sorry, I figured it was common knowledge. http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/inat_faq.jsp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The Adepticon FAQ (basically). Which I've always despised since it let Guardsmen use their medpacks against lascannons while marines couldn't, but that's another issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Even GW uses the INAT FAQ for some of their big events, which is pretty cool. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I have to admit it looks interesting but there are some odd rulings.... Such as the dreadknight with hammer or great sword gains an extra attack for close combat weapons, which seems totally at odds with the games workshop rulings on the doom fists as only walkers gain an extra attack for each dccw they have and the doom fists dont work on the dreadknight except as a basic Nemesis weapon without the str boost... unless i'm missing something.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The INAT FAQ has some 'interesting' game-changing rulings. Take it with a grain of salt. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Completely incorrect on at least one point. A unit performing a teleport shunt does not need to take a dangerous terrain test. Why? Because it is specifically stated in the Codex that you ignore terrain during the shunt, and that you cannot end your move in terrain anyway. And yes, of course, the ruling regarding Dreadknights and Daemonhammers is also wrong, since a Daemonhammer follows the rules of a Thunderhammer. I'm not sure where they get the idea that Rad Grenades do not stack either. Servo Skulls will disappear if a unit is deployed within 6", this was already stated in the GW FAQ. Still, I appreciate the FAQ being more relevant than GW's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Completely incorrect on at least one point. A unit performing a teleport shunt does not need to take a dangerous terrain test. Why? Because it is specifically stated in the Codex that you ignore terrain during the shunt, and that you cannot end your move in terrain anyway. You're incorrect on both counts. The rule states you cannot end in impassable terrain, not terrain in general, and it says you ignore intervening terrain, not the terrain at your destination or start. I agree that the Dreadknight ruling is wrong though, I'd like to hear their reasoning on that one. Besides the daemonhammer (which I hadn't thought of your point), there's nothing in the codex to overrule the BRB rule that says you don't get bonus attacks for two special close combat weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I lol at Medipacks negating Lascannon wounds, who ever thought that up was sleeping as its stated in the dex they couldnt (speaking of previous IG dex). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drahazar Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 INAT is stupid. The stores down here do not use it since it is not official at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 INAT is stupid. The stores down here do not use it since it is not official at all. That's neither a valid reason to not use something, nor to call it stupid. Do you not allow house rules because they aren't official? Are house rules stupid? The INAT FAQ has its problems (some questionable rulings), but it gives you a nice handy document to point to when you need to govern rules disputes. Don't like it, don't use it (or modify the parts you don't like), but something not being official is no reason to refuse to use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 And the guys who produce the INAT FAQ are actually really cool about going over their rulings- they take alot of community input on what questions need answering, and if you dont like a ruling you can always take the time to post up a good reason why... and they read it. Ive seen them change rulings based on stuff that was overlooked. It might not be perfect, but nothing is- particularly in this gaming system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Do you not allow house rules because they aren't official? yes. Are house rules stupid? nope. because they are not official. but something not being official is no reason to refuse to use it. ehh isnt the whole idea behind rules and any sociaty is that stuff is official ? +for europe there is whole US thing , any ruling made by an US tournament be it GW or not will offten be seen as wrong/bad/stupid , because those are not our kind of people . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 +for europe there is whole US thing , any ruling made by an US tournament be it GW or not will offten be seen as wrong/bad/stupid , because those are not our kind of people . Man, you make me smile each time... The way I imagine it, you live in some kind of dystopian Warhammer Death Camp where players that lose don't get to eat until they win. Rules are enforced with a whip. Lists are written in human blood. :D Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 +for europe there is whole US thing , any ruling made by an US tournament be it GW or not will offten be seen as wrong/bad/stupid , because those are not our kind of people . Man, you make me smile each time... The way I imagine it, you live in some kind of dystopian Warhammer Death Camp where players that lose don't get to eat until they win. Rules are enforced with a whip. Lists are written in human blood. :D Phil But the truth hurts and we all know it, thats why those INAT Faqs arent used over here in Europe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Completely incorrect on at least one point. A unit performing a teleport shunt does not need to take a dangerous terrain test. Why? Because it is specifically stated in the Codex that you ignore terrain during the shunt, and that you cannot end your move in terrain anyway. You're incorrect on both counts. The rule states you cannot end in impassable terrain, not terrain in general, and it says you ignore intervening terrain, not the terrain at your destination or start. I agree that the Dreadknight ruling is wrong though, I'd like to hear their reasoning on that one. Besides the daemonhammer (which I hadn't thought of your point), there's nothing in the codex to overrule the BRB rule that says you don't get bonus attacks for two special close combat weapons. It does seem that I misred the Personal Teleporter rules. Oh well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 And the guys who produce the INAT FAQ are actually really cool about going over their rulings- they take alot of community input on what questions need answering, and if you dont like a ruling you can always take the time to post up a good reason why... and they read it. Ive seen them change rulings based on stuff that was overlooked. It might not be perfect, but nothing is- particularly in this gaming system. Grey Mage's words here are wisdom and fact. Also, INAT and I virtually disagree on everything. ^_^ Take that as you will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 There are too many questions resolved as a clarification in my opinion. Also the same people who wrote it said it's more intended for the TOs rather than actual players. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 For those complaining about the INAT FAQ being unofficial, please allow me to provide the following as a reminder: "The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules'. They are, of course, useful when you play a pick-up game against someone you don't know, or at tournaments (i.e. when you don't have a set of common 'house rules' with the other player). However, if you disagree with some answers and prefer to change them in your games and make your own house rules with your friends, that's fine. In fact we encourage you to shape the game around your needs and your taste. We firmly believe that wargaming is about two (or more!) people creating a gaming experience they are both going to enjoy. In other words, you might prefer to skip the FAQs altogether and instead always apply the good old 'roll a dice' rule whenever you meet a problematic situation." The FAQ that GW itself provides is no more "official" than what the INAT folks have done. They have just done exactly what the 40k designers suggested, which is to figure out their own 'House Rules' to provide a common framework for playing the game in their tournaments. Regards, Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Do you not allow house rules because they aren't official? yes. Are house rules stupid? nope. because they are not official. Jeske... wow, man. That's a really narrow view. If everyone in the game you're playing agrees that a certain GW rule is stupid, what on earth do you gain by slavishly following it rather than agreeing to follow a different version? There's nothing about GW's rules that makes them some sacred cow. Rules are simply a social contract between the players, to play the game in a certain way. GW's rules are the default, but there is nothing that makes them inherently better than a different social contract that everyone discusses and agrees upon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 . If everyone in the game you're playing agrees that a certain GW rule is stupid yes that does include me. what on earth do you gain by slavishly following it rather than agreeing to follow a different version? first of what? As what people gain. Clear rules . you go in to a shop or a local tournament and you know how stuff works and dont find out about it turn 3 of game 2 . are GW rules stupid and bad ? ask me what I think about the nid auras working different then any other aura or primas not being able to join spore units . But at least stuff is clear there is not "oh we let him use the upgraded rules for SS/TH " . also there is something people from english countries may not understand , but when you are using foreign language with rules , specialy when your language does not belong to the same group stuff has to be clear and for it to be clear RAW is the only way to do it . Does it mean that it sucks for some players ? yes it does . my brother had beastman army , when GW changed the number of models in ranks to get the rank bonus they "forgot" to FAQ beastman . army was made unplayable , but then again one could say it was his foult he didnt want to play chaos demons. There's nothing about GW's rules that makes them some sacred cow.oh I get that a lot too. See am a customs officers and dudes tell me all the time , that stuff they bring in or out is "their own thing" , "trading makes the whole country better , so why is this or that not legal" and they pay taxs so I can get my wages . Or why is he not allowed to bring stuff X in to the country when no laws says he cant. Laws are there to be obeyed in real life and in GW games . you want to use house rules ? sure you cant , but your not playing w40k your playing your own game . Rules are simply a social contract between the players, I think we have a different understanding of how law works . Rules are something enforced on people by rulers . There is no social contract , if there was something like that it would mean people are more or less equal , which by birth they are not. GW's rules are the default, but there is nothing that makes them inherently better than a different social contract that everyone discusses and agrees upon. How would you even enforce that ? It would mean that anyone with a higher social standing [or plain bigger] would enforce the rules he wants . A friend of the tournament org says rule X works in his favor and there would be nothing you could do about it . even with friendly games it would be the same , and then what pay for the table and quit [and look how the dude finds another opponent and plays against him when you paid for the use of the table 0_o] . That doesnt make sense at all . If someone wants better rules he plays a different system or the tournament organizeres make special scenarios , but changing rules for units or gear is a no go . It will always be done in favor of some players . Even scenarios are a slipery thing I remember some of the US ones that were punishing nids players,because tournament orgs said there was too many of them[or to be more precise that there was too many identical lists]. And while different lists arent in itself bad[in fact dexs with many possible builds are awesome] , what does it say in the background about the orgs ? buy a different army or you will get punished for your pick [at the same time no one was punishing elder for circus or sm gunlines]. The FAQ that GW itself provides is no more "official" than what the INAT folks have done. cool . try to play a tournament of w40k without GW FAQ being official . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The GW Faq not official statement also raises an eyebrow with me. I wonder if Valerian also considers the Codexes as not official? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Its not a question of whether Valerian considers the FAQs official or not, its GW who doesn't - Valerians quote is taken directly off the GW site after all. The only thing 'official' are the few erratas - also published in the FAQs. - That aside, there are tons of house rules enforced at tournaments. GW FAQs, INAT FAQs, various army composition rules, funky dress codes etc. etc. Players follow the GW creed of making the game their own this way. If you don't like INAT FAQs, then don't use it, don't attend tourneys that use it and go lead a happy life in your own bubble of superiority. And please stop using the 'I'm a european'-defense. GW are based in europe, even though they like to separate themselves with a channel and a wall of tea and crumpets, they are very much european in their attitude - an english humour, combined with an italian disdain for rules - its really not a game to take very serious, and if you do, then you need to establish your own interpretation of rules in order to make the game yours in a satisfiable way (besides I'm european and insist on taking everything GW with a pinch of salt) :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 There's a world of difference between the rules of the game and the laws of the land. And I suspect that 'social contract' may have been a little lost in translation in Jeske's reply. The social contract is simply an informal agreement between players that they will abide by a given set of rules. Those rules can be anything as long as they are agreed in advance by both sides. Nothing to do with social standing, bullying or enforcement by rulers. The default is of course the RAW in the rulebook, usually modified by GW official FAQ and/or Errata. But many tournaments will further modify those rules to a greater or lesser extent. Again, as long as it's all perfectly clear in advance then I don't see the problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233358-inat-faq-is-updated/#findComment-2809862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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