Callidus assassin...useful?

[Something Wycked]

No codex in hand, but yes: pretty sure you can take three assassins so long as they are each of a different temple.

Yep. Unique, but only for the same type of Assassin; you can have three of the four temples in your army, but no duplicates.

[thade]

So I found another pocket use case for my dear Callidus. See the analysis in the OR forum.

 

TL;DR she can be used to eek out those last few wounds needed to free one of your units from an assault they're still locked in at the top of your Movement phase, as when she deploys her hits are allocated against a unit of choice...even if they're locked in combat. Something else to note is that she can use her "Deployment hits" and her shooting attack against different targets.

 

In the list I've crafted up I've got two HQs with Psychic Communion; that +/-2 gives me pretty good control over when she comes in. I'm excited to paint her...but I gotta figure out what to put in her hands as a C'tan phase blade. :)

[Kay]

What I think is that you are pointing the callidus in the wrong direction. She is not suited to be a mid-table killer. She is a back-table dominator. Everybody complains about the cheesynesh of SW's longfang missile launcher spam. Callidus them to death. Obliterators in a ruin throwing plasma at your paladins? BAM! Callidus! Apocalypse or crisis suit teams de-meching you? Fry their brains with a callidus neuroshredder.

 

Every single army out there, except maybe 1 or 2 have BACKFIELD units that can be targeted by a Callidus much safer than just throwing her in front of the enemy guns hoping to kill a handfull of marines before she eats the dirt.

 

She is a diversion skill, a tool your opponent is not counting on, and as such she must be used, not as a bullet magnet.

To me she is the second best assassin, after the vindicare. I find the eversor much harder to use, unless you give him a personal ride, and even then he is just another MEQ killer which GKs don't lack, and the cullexus relies on enemy psychic presence to be less than a joke, and still, unless you face a seer council or tyrannies, most armies just brim one psiquer...

 

Just my 2 cents there...

[Sturm Moonwolf]

Can a neural shredder cause instant death verse leadership or toughness? Seems to be a question someone asked me that i'm unsure about.

[thade]

This came up before, but I can't remember where.

 

It can cause Instant Death...but it's Leadership vs Leadership, so it won't come up very often. Don't sweat it though, she's nasty enough.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

Ok, thanks Thade. That's what I pretty much figured just wanted other thoughts to be sure.

[neonfunk]

Hi all,

Just a quick question re the Callidus' Polymorphine.

 

Take for example, a 5 man tactical squad in a rhino...

When the Callidus arrives from reserve and "reveals" herself, can she allocate her D6 S4 Ap2 attacks against the passengers INSIDE the transport? Or must the hits be allocated against the actual transport (i.e. rhino) itself?

 

Thanks in advance

[thade]

For the same reason that the Tyranid-psyker character cannot template the models inside of a transport, neither can the Callidus affect the models in the transport. So...no. <3

[neonfunk]

For the same reason that the Tyranid-psyker character cannot template the models inside of a transport, neither can the Callidus affect the models in the transport. So...no. <3

 

^ I wasn't referring to the Callidus's Neural Shredder Attack (which is the template that u were referring to)....

 

I was referring to the Callidus' POLYMORPHINE attack... i.e. the D6 S4 AP2 attacks when she "reveals" herself...

 

I know the rules says that "the chosen unit takes D6 S4 Ap2 hits"... But since she "reveals" herself amongst the INFRANTRY unit, does the polymorphine attack gets allocated to the INFRANTRY INSIDE the transport?

 

And since you brought up the template attack (neural shredder), it explicitly states in the dex that the shredder "cannot harm vehicles"...

 

So What about in the case of one Raider, with a whole bunch of DE on it.

 

Now, lets consider if i choose this unit for my Callidus' target... SO:

 

1) Does the POLYMORPHINE affect the passengers? I can argue that yes it can, since it the raider is an an open-topped vehile, as well as my aforementioned ^ argument.

 

2) The Neural Shredder Template Attack. Against the Rhino, this would be useless - because the rules explicitly state that the neural shredder cannot harm vehicles. However, if it an open topped raider with bunches of DE on board, would it be possible to place the template over them, and hence, would the neural shredder cause potential harm to the PASSENGERS?!?!?!?!??

 

Thanks in advance for any help

Much appreciated

[thade]

Nope, I was also not referring to the template. You can't target a unit that's in a transport. Her polymorphine attack can hit the transport itself, but not the passengers.

 

Bottom-line: you can't use an ability to target a unit that's embarked unless the ability specifically says you can.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have found using an assassin to hang back and protect my psyflemen works well.

 

G :D

[thade]

I have found using an assassin to hang back and protect my psyflemen works well.

I'm into this. The Callidus is interesting in that she's flexible (can *poof* in to help any of your teams that are mired in an assault, mid to late game) but for that particular role (watch dog for your riflemen) I think I'd go with the Evisor. The guy is a beast and restricted to foot-slogging anyway (unless you let him commandeer a transport, of course). Also, the Dreads are Psykers, no? Cullexus. :D

 

EDIT: typo.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the Eversor. The skull mask is BAMF !

 

http://images.mcanime.net/images/avatars/864455723478b7c1172981.jpg

 

G :)

[neonfunk]

Firstly, thank you for all the feedback and rules clarification, much appreciated...

 

(Black Orange @ Aug 10 2011, 11:44 AM) 
I have found using an assassin to hang back and protect my psyflemen works well.
I'm into this. The Callidus is interesting in that she's flexible (can *poof* in to help any of your teams that are mired in an assault, mid to late game) but for that particular role (watch dog for your riflemen) I think I'd go with the Evisor. The guy is a beast and restricted to foot-slogging anyway (unless you let him commandeer a transport, of course). Also, the Dreads are Psykers, no? Cullexus.

 

Assassin to "protect" a dreadnought? can't say I've hear hat before. If anything, wouldn't you deploy a techmarine near the dreads (for obvious reasons) to "protect" them?

 

On a semi-related topic on assassins... Has anyone considered mounting a vinidare in a rhino, and zoom him around (of course, he can use his exitus pistol when doing so), to a good location? 3 reasons... 1) to increase the assassin's durabiliy 2) to create firing lines/terrain with the use of other vehicles... not then mention the summonung psychich powers from the libby can come to play in terms of summoning vehicles/dreadnoughts in the situation. I'd wager, that a vindicare in a trhino would be at the top of the opponent's priority list...!

[thade]

Assassin to "protect" a dreadnought? can't say I've hear hat before. If anything, wouldn't you deploy a techmarine near the dreads (for obvious reasons) to "protect" them?

If a Dread has a 2xTL-Autocannon loadout, it has no DCCW. In combat it's thus 2 attacks at S6, allowing armor saves. Assault him with anything and he's basically locked down and useless until he dies. With some kind of counter-CC in the neighborhood (in this example, an Assassin) you not only hang a giant neon sign over the Dreads saying "ASSASSIN WILL WRECK YOUR WORLD IF YOU GET CLOSE ENOUGH", you also give them a way to escape those combats (i.e. the assassin wrecking their world) so he can again contribute fire to the game.

 

On a semi-related topic on assassins... Has anyone condsidered mounting s vinidare in a rhino, and zoom him around (of course, he can use his exitus pistol when doing so), to good location? 2 reasons... 1) to increase the assassin's durability, AND 2) to create firing lines/terrain with the use of other vehicles... not then mention the summonung psychich powers from the libby can come to play. I'd wager, that a vindicare in a trhino would be at the top of the opponent's priority list...

Vindicare gets five to seven shots a game; that's five to seven Pen'd LRs or killed Power Fists/ICs/whatever-other-annoying-models-you-like...if you roll hot. He's going to roll a 1 for one of those shots, likely (either to hit or to wound)...so you want to maximize his kill potential. That involves using Infiltrate/Scout and getting him in a position with the best cover and views possible.

 

Rolling him out in a Rhino deprives him of at least a turn of shooting. Sure, the pistol is usable...but if he can hit something at 12", that something can assault the Rhino and eat him that turn.

 

Doable? Sure. Would I do it? No. Even on a mostly bare table, I'd just screen him with an infantry unit or two for the 3++ cover and suck up the cover save everybody else got.

[Something Wycked]

On that note, however, sticking a Vindicare in a Rhino would certainly be a viable tactic. Multimelta bunkers are well known for protecting their cargo from small arms fire, and they could certainly do the same thing for the Vindicare.

 

Of course this would be limiting his turn 1 potential, but really only if you're going first. If your opponent has first turn, he'll likely move units into the Vindicare's range. Now he has to devote at least two units to killing the Vindicare- one to pop the Rhino and another to weight of fire/assault the Assassin.

 

The Callidus could also work well as a Dreadnought rescue unit- if she comes in as the opponent is moving units near the Dread, she can put a serious hurt on them before they can tie up the Dread.