Can there be a successor chapter to a successor chapter?

[skamp]

I was wondering can there be a successor chapter to a successor chapter? I plan on making a chapter :D

[Lysimachus]

Well, a new Chapter is created from rigourously tested gene seed stores on Mars, selected from the tithe they collect from the various older Chapters. A single 'perfect' specimen is chosen and replicated in laboratory conditions hundreds of times to create enough gene seed for the beginnings of the new force. Which specific Marine of which Chapter it came from is therefore not necessarily known, only which Primarch/Legion.

 

However, a new Chapter's training cadre (Liber assumption but a reasonable one) can come from any Chapter or Successor, i.e. a Chapter created from Ultramarines geneseed could be training by a cadre of Ultra's, or by White/Black Consuls, Genesis, Sons of Orar, etc, etc etc... If such a Chapter is trained by one of these Successors, it is usually described as being the Successor of the Successor (if that makes sense). Therefore, given the long history of the Imperium with 26 different Space Marine Chapter Foundings, a Chapter could possibly be a successor of a successor of a successor of a successor of a successor of a successor... you get the idea.

[Octavulg]

That's a 'yes', if it's not clear. ;)

 

If you want a canon example, the Marines Errant are successors of the Eagle Warriors, who are a 2nd Founding successor of the Ultramarines.

[Lysimachus]

:P Why use one word when ten will do!

[skamp]

hahah yes I understand and im particularly glad you explained it I hate simple responses such as yes or no....hmmm I was thinking of havinf flesh tearer successors but that seems unlikely due to their black rage problem.....maybe they(Sanguinary Partisans)can just be BA successors?.....I want to base them off of 15th century spain

[Octavulg]

What aspects of 15th century Spain?

[Kurgan the Lurker]

hahah yes I understand and im particularly glad you explained it I hate simple responses such as yes or no....hmmm I was thinking of havinf flesh tearer successors but that seems unlikely due to their black rage problem.....maybe they(Sanguinary Partisans)can just be BA successors?.....I want to base them off of 15th century spain

 

Well even if you had them as a Successor of the Flesh Tearers you would still have them trace their lineage all the way back to the Blood Angels. The would be a Blood Angels Successor by way of the Flesh Tearers.

[skamp]

hmmmm they wouldnt wouldnt they? but I want them as a more savage version similar to how the flesh tearers are.....also what aspects? I suppose Names,Iconography,Maybe some conversions to weapons and armor,Culture,maybe have them close to the inquisition if that would work hahah and conquest and colonization of planets?.....maybe I should just do spain in general?.........just realized how can I have them savage but based on spain?hmmmmm? any suggestions or would I have to pick one or the other?

[Arkangilos]

Well, the Conquistadors were somewhat savage and brutal. The Spanish Inquisition was as well.

 

They can be a regular BA successor but be extremely savage, its all how the chapter deals with the flaw. The Flesh Terrors give into it, the Blood Drinkers use it to control it, yours could just give into it if you wanted. Or you could do a mix. Its all just up to the character of the chapter, not where they are from.

 

You could have them close to the inquisition, but you have to remember, the flaw isn't widely known, and it is likely that if seen, you could be declared excommunicated. So the closer you are, the harder you have to "hide" it.

 

Of course, you could "do away with" your whole Death Company, and I don't mean the flaw. Just, rather than use those who fall, you kill them out right. In fact, now that I think of it, that would be really unique amongst chapters, and I might use that one day :P

 

So, you kill your Death Company so that you have no beserkers running around, so the Inquisition is none the wiser. You also torture your enemies for information, and, your chapter itself is very inquisitor like in its porceedings...

 

Now I see it, a Blood Angel successor with Interrogators :P Thats like a Dark Blood Angel :D

[Azekai]

You could have them close to the inquisition, but you have to remember, the flaw isn't widely known, and it is likely that if seen, you could be declared excommunicated. So the closer you are, the harder you have to "hide" it.

 

Not necessarily- should some more radical members of the Inquisition learn of such a weakness, they may seek to exploit it, rather than simply purge the offending party. :P

[skamp]

actually good sire I think I might use that if its alright with you.....and hmm yes savage but rather refined hahah I like where this is going....also can a chapter master stay a scout for preference of finesse and speed? or do they need to go through the whole transformation? but then how is there high rank scouts such as torias telion? one question leads to another hahah

[Arkangilos]

Use what?

 

And the Chapter Master would have to have gone through the Transformatino, BUT he can choose what he is equipped with. So if he wanted to go into combat with scout armor, her could.

[AbyssKnight]

Just wanted to add another example of "successor of a successor" would be Mantis Warriors, successors of the Mauraders, themselves successors of the White Scars.

 

I also think the idea of a BA successor chapter that kills all the brothers who fall to the Black Rage an interesting idea. A denial of the darkness within, affirmation of their own humanity kind of vibe (plus the logistical benefit of not having to care/warden a bunch of raving psychos).

 

I think you could possibly tie it to one of the BA successors described as "consumed by their own geneseed."

 

So maybe the are successors of the Flesh Eaters, and to avoid the self destruction that happened to their forebearers they are very rigorous in maintaining their geneseed. As part of this obsession with purity, they are very "Inquisitorial" and even execute any of their own members who fall victim to the Black Rage. You could still tie in Spanish influences, the most famous real life inquisition is after all the Spanish Inquisition (weren't expecting that were you, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!).

 

For the name you could include the normal Red, Blood, Angels, etc., but I would also suggest possibly using Martyrs (referencing Sanguinius' death for the Emperor, that they themselves will die in the Service of the Emperor, and the destruction of the Chapter's forebears, the Flesh Eaters).

[skamp]

Just wanted to add another example of "successor of a successor" would be Mantis Warriors, successors of the Mauraders, themselves successors of the White Scars.

 

I also think the idea of a BA successor chapter that kills all the brothers who fall to the Black Rage an interesting idea. A denial of the darkness within, affirmation of their own humanity kind of vibe (plus the logistical benefit of not having to care/warden a bunch of raving psychos).

 

I think you could possibly tie it to one of the BA successors described as "consumed by their own geneseed."

 

So maybe the are successors of the Flesh Eaters, and to avoid the self destruction that happened to their forebearers they are very rigorous in maintaining their geneseed. As part of this obsession with purity, they are very "Inquisitorial" and even execute any of their own members who fall victim to the Black Rage. You could still tie in Spanish influences, the most famous real life inquisition is after all the Spanish Inquisition (weren't expecting that were you, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!).

 

For the name you could include the normal Red, Blood, Angels, etc., but I would also suggest possibly using Martyrs (referencing Sanguinius' death for the Emperor, that they themselves will die in the Service of the Emperor, and the destruction of the Chapter's forebears, the Flesh Eaters).

hmmmm I think I might just have them as BA successors to avoid complications and name wise I was thinking maybe sanguinary partisans?

[Azekai]

So maybe the are successors of the Flesh Eaters, and to avoid the self destruction that happened to their forebearers they are very rigorous in maintaining their geneseed. As part of this obsession with purity, they are very "Inquisitorial" and even execute any of their own members who fall victim to the Black Rage. You could still tie in Spanish influences, the most famous real life inquisition is after all the Spanish Inquisition (weren't expecting that were you, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!).

 

Well, there are two problems with that- the first is that 'rigorously maintaining geneseed purity' will not stave off the effects of Black Rage. That is a psychic death scream that echoes down through the eons and it originates with the primarch. No matter how 'pure' it is, the geneseed still comes from Sanguinius and will always cause some of its bearers to lose themselves in rage at his unjust death.

 

Second issue is that among the Flesh Tearers the black rage is so prevalent that it is destroying the chapter. If you want to simply kill all those marines rather than have them be formed into death companies, that will take a massive unecessary toll on the composition of the successor.

Not saying don't do it, just seems rather unrealistic.

[Marshal Rohr]

Commissar Molotov created a chapter that drew heavily from the Vulcans of Star Trek for a Blood Angel successor who would resist the Rage through sheer willpower and those who fell were euthanized.

[skamp]

So maybe the are successors of the Flesh Eaters, and to avoid the self destruction that happened to their forebearers they are very rigorous in maintaining their geneseed. As part of this obsession with purity, they are very "Inquisitorial" and even execute any of their own members who fall victim to the Black Rage. You could still tie in Spanish influences, the most famous real life inquisition is after all the Spanish Inquisition (weren't expecting that were you, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!).

 

Well, there are two problems with that- the first is that 'rigorously maintaining geneseed purity' will not stave off the effects of Black Rage. That is a psychic death scream that echoes down through the eons and it originates with the primarch. No matter how 'pure' it is, the geneseed still comes from Sanguinius and will always cause some of its bearers to lose themselves in rage at his unjust death.

 

Second issue is that among the Flesh Tearers the black rage is so prevalent that it is destroying the chapter. If you want to simply kill all those marines rather than have them be formed into death companies, that will take a massive unecessary toll on the composition of the successor.

Not saying don't do it, just seems rather unrealistic.

thats percisely why I wanted to avoid the flesh tearers simply having them as BA successors would make it seem more realistic

[skamp]

Use what?

 

And the Chapter Master would have to have gone through the Transformatino, BUT he can choose what he is equipped with. So if he wanted to go into combat with scout armor, her could.

your idea and excellent

[AbyssKnight]

Well, there are two problems with that- the first is that 'rigorously maintaining geneseed purity' will not stave off the effects of Black Rage.

And? The Black Rage affects different successors to different degrees without any apparent reason. This chapter (in theory since the OP seems to be leaning a different way) believes they can reduces the impact of the BR by "rigorously maintaining geneseed purity." Kinda like how the Lamenters were supposed to have avoided the problems of the BR and Red Thirst altogether. It doesn't have to work in reality, objectively, for them to think it might work and be doing it in-universe.

 

Second issue is that among the Flesh Tearers the black rage is so prevalent that it is destroying the chapter.

And where did I say anything about the Flesh Tearers? I suggested the Flesh Eaters myself, specifically because they were already destroyed by the effects of the BR. As far as killing the Death Company resulting in losing too many brothers, that really depends on how many brothers fall into the BR (and as stated above that varies from one chapter to another for no real rhyme or reason) and recruitment/induction rate.

 

Say the rate of BR was lower than the Flesh Tearers, and the recruitment rate is higher. The chapter will probably still be condemned to an eventual extinction, but it will be slower than the Flesh Tearers and they will not be raving mad dogs but noble heroes in their final hours. The end would be the same but the theme of it would be different.

[skamp]

Commissar Molotov created a chapter that drew heavily from the Vulcans of Star Trek for a Blood Angel successor who would resist the Rage through sheer willpower and those who fell were euthanized.

hmmm never watched startrek before and is there a thread for them?

[Octavulg]

The Redemptors

[Arkangilos]

Well, there are two problems with that- the first is that 'rigorously maintaining geneseed purity' will not stave off the effects of Black Rage.

And? The Black Rage affects different successors to different degrees without any apparent reason. This chapter (in theory since the OP seems to be leaning a different way) believes they can reduces the impact of the BR by "rigorously maintaining geneseed purity." Kinda like how the Lamenters were supposed to have avoided the problems of the BR and Red Thirst altogether. It doesn't have to work in reality, objectively, for them to think it might work and be doing it in-universe.

 

Second issue is that among the Flesh Tearers the black rage is so prevalent that it is destroying the chapter.

And where did I say anything about the Flesh Tearers? I suggested the Flesh Eaters myself, specifically because they were already destroyed by the effects of the BR. As far as killing the Death Company resulting in losing too many brothers, that really depends on how many brothers fall into the BR (and as stated above that varies from one chapter to another for no real rhyme or reason) and recruitment/induction rate.

 

Say the rate of BR was lower than the Flesh Tearers, and the recruitment rate is higher. The chapter will probably still be condemned to an eventual extinction, but it will be slower than the Flesh Tearers and they will not be raving mad dogs but noble heroes in their final hours. The end would be the same but the theme of it would be different.

 

^ This.

 

Also, just because they are a Flesh Terror successor does not mean that they will have the same luck with the BR.

 

However, unlike what Abyss said, I would say that it does somewhat have a reason, in that chapters who embrace the BR seem to have more DC than others (ie, the Flesh Tearers). So a lot of it is about mentality, meaning that just because they were a Flesh Terror successor does not mean they will have their luck because they reject it, rather than embrace it. They will still have it, but at a differant level.

[skamp]

hmmmm I guess its all ready taken a shame.....now to brainstorming lol