Smoke and Vehicle Squadrons.

[SeattleDV8]

When a squardron is being shot at you first determine if each model in the unit is obscured (or granted cover), this is done on a model by model basis.

Is model A obscured ? is model B , etc.

You then compare the number of models in cover to the number of models in the entire unit.

If this number is equal to or greater than 50% then the unit gets a cover save.

It doesn't matter where or how the models got their cover.

If half or more do the entire unit gets it.

The FAQ is pointing out that a infantry unit is granted a 5+ save is any member of a unit is within 6".

Only the vehicles that are within 6" count as obscured.

It doesn't effect the unit directly like the infantry.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

No, but if 50% of them pop smoke, the others get a save.

The smoke rules say that "will count as obscured in the next enemy shooting phase, receiving a 4+ cover save"

Pg um 62(3?)

Hence, if 50% of the squad pop smoke, the entire squad will gain a cover save.

Ah I see. That's...a bit dodgy. :P But RAW.

 

That could allow vehicle squadrons to have more than one application of smoke per game, which I do not like.

 

PreFAQ, you could buy one Disruption pod [gives cover if the enemy is >12" away] for a Pair of Piranhas. You would get cover for the pair as long as the Dpod Piranha was far enough away.

 

Realy?

Page 21

Cover is basically anything that is hiding a a target or protecting it from incoming shots. I.E. Smoke

Thus a unit with 50% smoke popped counts as being in cover,

 

Read the rules for vehicles and cover. A vehicles must be obscured to get cover. Smoke launchers grant the vehicle obscured and thus allow it it utilize a cover save. A vehicle that has not popped smoke is not obscured and therefore cannot utilize a cover save.

 

If I have a pair of Typhoons, and put one behind a Pred's turret, it gets cover. Half the squadron is in cover, therefore the whole squadron is in cover.

 

Same with smoke.

 

+++

 

Basically, vehicles in squadrons are poor.

Them getting cover for half being in cover is the small recompense for suffering a Destroyed instead of an Immobilised.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I think I found another nail in the coffin for this argument, in the new Ork FAQ of all places.

 

Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a vehicle within 6" of it? (p35)

A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6” of the custom force filed will count as obscured.

Here is precedent that special rules granting cover saves only grant cover saves to the vehicle affected by the special rule, not to the entire squadron.

 

Only vehicles that pop smoke are obscured; they do not grant it to the entire unit, even if 50% of the vehicles are obscured through smoke.

 

No nail :P

 

Yeah, stuff outside does not get a cover save.

 

Insert into two situations.

1] Three Kanz are near a KFF. 'A' is within 6" but then other two are not. Cover for 1/3rd of the unit, therefore no unit cover.

 

2] Three Kanz are near a KFF. 'A' and 'B' are within 6" but the last one is not. Cover for 2/3rds of the unit, therefore unit cover.

Is the last one personally in cover? No, just like the OrkFAQ tells us. How about by virtue of being in a unit? Yes, just like the cover rules tell us.

 

+++

 

Just because people don't like a rule, isn't a reason for the rule to not be so.

Many do not like wound allocation. It is still a rule and we all 'exploit it' if we are sensible.

 

Don't let bias rob you of good units, tactics and so on. If you don't like it, cool, don't use it. But the rule still works.

[Something Wycked]

No nail :P

 

Yeah, stuff outside does not get a cover save.

Yes nail :P Emphasis mine. No distinction is made for the BRB 50% rule in the codex or the FAQ; codex overrules BRB- "stuff outside the KFF does not get a cover save."

 

Its not bias; it doesn't make any logical sense (unlike wound allocation, which makes perfect sense- big, swirling melee that isn't represented well by static models on a tabletop.)

 

You're a heavy weapons gunner, and you're faced with a group of vehicles all rolling towards you. A bunch of them pop smoke, and its hard to see the vehicles that popped smoke. But the outliers, who aren't behind the ones who popped smoke, just sitting out there in the open with no cover at all...

 

Those are juicy, unobscured targets.

 

If your interpretation is correct, these "good units, tactics, and so on" are things I will never take advantage of.

[Morticon]

I think I found another nail in the coffin for this argument, in the new Ork FAQ of all places.

 

Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a vehicle within 6" of it? (p35)

A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6” of the custom force filed will count as obscured.

Here is precedent that special rules granting cover saves only grant cover saves to the vehicle affected by the special rule, not to the entire squadron.

 

Only vehicles that pop smoke are obscured; they do not grant it to the entire unit, even if 50% of the vehicles are obscured through smoke.

 

 

Actually, this was already covered in another forum.

This ruling does not conflict nor over-rule the 50% squad obscured = cover argument.

 

In the case of the orks, this has been specified since the KFF says "all units with a model within.."

In the case of 3 Kans for example, one can being in KFF range, and therefore getting a cover, will not grant it to the squad since the squad is not obscured.

However, 2 of them in KFF range will ensure that the whole squad is counted as obscured.

 

The KFF FAQ is sadly irrelevant.

 

I think I found another nail in the coffin for this argument, in the new Ork FAQ of all places.

 

Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a vehicle within 6" of it? (p35)

A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6” of the custom force filed will count as obscured.

Here is precedent that special rules granting cover saves only grant cover saves to the vehicle affected by the special rule, not to the entire squadron.

 

Only vehicles that pop smoke are obscured; they do not grant it to the entire unit, even if 50% of the vehicles are obscured through smoke.

 

No nail :P

 

Yeah, stuff outside does not get a cover save.

 

Insert into two situations.

1] Three Kanz are near a KFF. 'A' is within 6" but then other two are not. Cover for 1/3rd of the unit, therefore no unit cover.

 

2] Three Kanz are near a KFF. 'A' and 'B' are within 6" but the last one is not. Cover for 2/3rds of the unit, therefore unit cover.

Is the last one personally in cover? No, just like the OrkFAQ tells us. How about by virtue of being in a unit? Yes, just like the cover rules tell us.

 

+++

 

Just because people don't like a rule, isn't a reason for the rule to not be so.

Many do not like wound allocation. It is still a rule and we all 'exploit it' if we are sensible.

 

Don't let bias rob you of good units, tactics and so on. If you don't like it, cool, don't use it. But the rule still works.

 

 

aaaand also explained beautifully here!