Had Loken Grown Balls (spoilerses)

[Unintentional Batman]

Just a random thought for the evening. Granted, it's been a while since I read the first three books and can't really say if Loken would have had a chance before Horus was too far gone (mainly, did he know enough before Horus got stabbified at Davin), but what if instead of sneaking around being all suspicious and herculepoiroty he would have manned up and killed Eerebus where he stood?

 

Could we have averted ze Heresy altogether, or was the game already way too far progressed by that point? Or does this fall into the unthinkability of a marine turning on another marine regardless of how vile a bastard Loken through E to be?

 

Just throwin ideas around. Sorry about the populistic thread title :lol:

[Task Force Gauntlet]

Or does this fall into the unthinkability of a marine turning on another marine regardless of how vile a bastard Loken through E to be?

This, you answered your own question right there.

[Blood Angel Scout]

Think you make a good point about killing Erebus would've altered the events as from First Heretic, this is referred to by Xaphen (I think) along the lines of Erebus has had the ear of the Warmaster for a long time, even above those in his own legion but whether or not this would have avoided the heresy...not entirely sure

[Greyall]

One thing I've always liked about the Heresy fluff is how said unthinkability of Marines turning on each other and their Emperor was made consistent and almost tangible.

[Morollan]

One thing I've always liked about the Heresy fluff is how said unthinkability of Marines turning on each other and their Emperor was made consistent and almost tangible.

 

And then Prospero Burns came along and Russ blows that whole concept out of the water.

[Tutteman]

I think if Loken had killed Erebus it would of been a case of Loken THINKING with them not growing them. I mean anything he said would instantly be discredited by the blood on his hands/sword/whatever. But maybe he should of mentioned his suspicions regarding Erebus to someone else like...Horus? I guess he didn't think he had enough to go on to accuse such a trusted advisor? :P

[Kizzdougs]

One thing I've always liked about the Heresy fluff is how said unthinkability of Marines turning on each other and their Emperor was made consistent and almost tangible.

 

And then Prospero Burns came along and Russ blows that whole concept out of the water.

 

 

I don't think the Wolves exactly enjoyed what they had to do (in fact they hated it). They simply believed it was the task they were created for, as unpleasant as they found it. I seem to remember Russ was the main voice of restraint when the problem of Lorgar was first considered.

[Greyall]

Kizzdougs nailed it, and I'll add just one detail:

 

The best proof that Russ didn't invade Prospero out of pure hate but rather by following orders is that it wasn't even his idea to raze the whole thing to the ground. He was there to bring Magnus to justice, as was ordered to him.

 

PS: Even if he wanted to break the Red's face.

[Codicier Lucion]

Would Erebus even have effected the whole Heresy that much? Certainly, the Sons of Horus would not have joined in but Lorgar was still firmly set on his path as were the Word Bearers. I can think of at least two legions who would have willingly joined them and a third who would have been forced into joining them.

 

Killing Kor Phaeron before the legion was formed might have had some impact, at the very least slowed the corruption of the legio astartes, but Erebus was just one agent in a larger plan.

[The Broker]

Would Erebus even have effected the whole Heresy that much? Certainly, the Sons of Horus would not have joined in but Lorgar was still firmly set on his path as were the Word Bearers. I can think of at least two legions who would have willingly joined them and a third who would have been forced into joining them.

 

Killing Kor Phaeron before the legion was formed might have had some impact, at the very least slowed the corruption of the legio astartes, but Erebus was just one agent in a larger plan.

 

Which ones?

 

It seems that Lorgar was held in contempt by a good few of his brothers (Fulgrim, Curze, Perturabo), and I can't see the likes of Angron, Mortarion, Alpharius,etc taking up his offer of rebellion.

 

Magnus probably would be forced to join because of Prospero, but I'd imagine he'd more than likely just leave for the Eye and set up shop there. Forget about the rest of the galaxy and research his spells.

 

Lorgar temporarily lost his nerve at the Drop Site Massacres, I don't think he'd be capable of planning or seeing through a galaxy wide civil war - especially from such a numerical disadvantage.

[Arkangilos]

Well Horus was still the ultimate reason why Magnus turned, because he ordered the butchering of Prospero by the Wolves. Also, the whole reason Magnus used his powers that made the Emperor want him brought in was to warn the Emperor that Horus turned. If Horus would not have turned, no warning would need to be spent, Magnus wouldn't have turned.

 

Angron would have turned though. He hated the Emperor, and any opertunity to get him wouldn't be passed up. Also, the Night Terror probably would have turned too, for teh same reasons, his bad visions, and his homeworld.