Cain Tiberius Kondrad Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hi folks. I am currently in the process of building the 2nd Co. of the Blood Angel chapter. Fluff states Companies 2-5 consist of 6 Tac Squads, 2 Assault and 2 Devestators. Companies 6 & 7 are all Tactical, Co. 8 is all Assault and Co. 9 is all Devestator as per Codex Astartes. However, I would like to build my company with the following composition. 4 Tactical Squads, 4 Assault Squads and 2 Devestator Squads. I know people will say to simply make the 3rd and 4th Assault units with an alternate Co. marking. But, I want to remain within the 2nd Co. with the exception of a few units from the 1st and 10th Co's. My question is. If I do this, is the big bad fluff monster gonna try and maw me to death? CTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It's not fluffy if you want them all to be the same company, so I'm one of your alternate company recommenders. However, there's always the successor chapter with different organisation option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 There is tactical and strategic precedent of a Captain issuing a change in armament to his Tactical Marines to allow for a more appropriate response to a specific situation. In the BL novel The Nightbringer, Ventris has chainswords issued to his Tactical Marines when they assault a Dark Eldar Cruiser from their Thunderhawk. Whilst the obvious criticism here is Ventris wasn't very "Codex", this particular action was never mentioned as being anti-Codex at all and is logical when you consider it. Personanlly I wouldn't do this as if I wanted to have a Battle Company I'd like it to look traditional so it was easily recognisable, but if you don't mind explaining the situation then go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 first up- are you building the 2nd company, or do you just want 10 squads of marines? If you're doing the 2nd company, then its only 2 assault squads. Other options include painting as tactical marines, but then arming them with bp/cs- which would work if the squad was in a transport, but not very well with jump packs or painting them as from a supporting company... The fluff monster has nothing to do with it- if you want to build the 2nd comp then its 6 tactical squads, if you want 4 assault squads are you really doing it because you want to build 2nd comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Tiberius Kondrad Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 first up- are you building the 2nd company, or do you just want 10 squads of marines? I would eventually like to build a full Co. I'd like that to be a single Co. appart from the above mentioned additions from the 1st and 10th Co's. If I simply wanted to make 10 Squads I wouldn't be asking. I have always felt it odd that one the most Fluffed Assaulty chapters has so few actual Assault units. Yeah I know all their vehicles are either fast or can Deep Strike. But even so.. Anywho, thanks for your input folks. CTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCommanderSamirus Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 The Blood Angels may be very Assault oriented but they are a Codex Chapter... for the most part. Your best bet is to do both. By this I mean build your full Company (6 Tac, 2 Assault, 2 Dev) but then expand and do 2 more Assault from say the 8th Company. From my understanding it isn't out of the ordinary for units from the reserve companies to accompany battle companies on campaigns where more of a certain unit type might be needed. Yes it might wind up costing more money but you've already decided to collect a company worth of marines. Once you've gone that far and spent that much whats another 100 dollars. -Samirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I can not remember where I read it, but I'm dead certain that somewhere it is stated that Blood Angels keep their jump pack from assignment to death. They are just not using it when not assigned to a assault marine squad. And that Force Commanders therefore had the option of deploying his marines as Tacticals or Assault squads. Thereby validating the rules for jumpers as troops through fluff. I've scoured the books in hope of finding this particular piece of background, and it might be some feverish dream from my part. But for the love of Him on the throne I cannot seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Yellow Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Don't remember that being mentioned. I'm in agreement with CommanderSAmirus. BA are codex chpater mostly. A company is 6 tac, 2 ass and 2 dev. Anything else would be attatchments from other companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm doing 3rd co. and with my newest RAS I've went down the good old route of painting them as Tac's, just with CCW. I justify it by saying they are a particularly blood thirsty squad lol. BTW I for the knee pad I have it the yellow one with the red blood drip (can't remember the squad no. off hand) but they look 'yellow' enough with their yellow hazard striped chainswords :P Am I happy? Yep. Fluffy? erm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 my 3rd company is codex, and has 3 tactical squads currently, and just 1 assault squad, I'm now working on the 1st devastator squad. Anything beyond the company will be painted in different company colours or more likely simply not made (exception is veterans and terminators which I shall of course paint as 1st company) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My guys are 2nd company, too, and very soon the jumppackers and bikers and landspeeders use up all twenty yellow helmeted assault marines. My compromise is to assume that the non-jump-packers with chain swords and bolt pistols are actually tactical marines assigned to a close combat mission role. They all know how to fight in assault, it was part of their training. They all have bolt pistols. It is easier to imagine that they check in their bolters and draw their chainswords, than that they store their jump-packs. So in practice that means I have 10 man assault squad without jump-packs with red tactical helmets, to keep the canonical number of marines. Personally, I don't think the fuff is right on this. As far as we see it in play, each company seems to have at least an equal number of assault and tactical marines, and I would imagine that at least 10 of those devastators sit around doing nothing. The explanation that assault companies are always kept up to strength by eager volunteers from the tactical squads, which are often depleted, does not really match this, with many lists and GW photos showing more than 20 yellow hats in a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I can not remember where I read it, but I'm dead certain that somewhere it is stated that Blood Angels keep their jump pack from assignment to death. They are just not using it when not assigned to a assault marine squad. And that Force Commanders therefore had the option of deploying his marines as Tacticals or Assault squads. Thereby validating the rules for jumpers as troops through fluff. I've scoured the books in hope of finding this particular piece of background, and it might be some feverish dream from my part. But for the love of Him on the throne I cannot seem to find it. I remember reading that but I can't find it either? I'll have to have a dig through some old White Dwarf mags and see if was in one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 IIRC ive read that sometimes tactical squads deploy as assault squads when the need for more assault marines was present.... not sure where though. il read the codex abit and if i find it il let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 As far as I know, and I'm sorry for repeating what others said, it's 6 Tacs, 2 Assaults and 2 Devs in one company. Supported by Landspeeders, Bikes and Trikes which are drawn from the 8th company(or elements from other companies) if all the assault marines from one company are deployed in battle. Tactical Marines are the oldest Space Marines in our chapter(from regular companies, not the 1st) so they excel at every combat style. In case that the assault squads suffer losses, it is not the tactical marine that is assigned to an assault squad, but other newly-made Marines as the position of an assault marine is the first sort of rank that new recruits have to go through. Yes, in certain missions squads of Tacticals are given Chainswords and Rhinos, but to keep it fluffy, they would not wear yellow helmets nor would they have Jumppacks. And I still don't see why everyone thinks that we should have more assault marines as other SM chapters when our assault marines are significantly better than others? Being an assault-dedicated chapter does not mean to have more regular assault troops. It means that our combat style is close combat, which the codex depicts pretty well. Our army is so much better at decapitating our foes(and in most cases, it can be taken literally) thanks to our special troops made for pure assault. Sanguiary Guard, Deathcompany, Stormraven(more a support element, though), Furioso and Deathcompany Dreadnoughts, Reclusiarchs and our special characters are what makes us great in the combat phase. Focusing on the special units, supported by regular troops is the main aspect of the blood angels in my opinion. We do not need more assault marines. We have something even better. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 hmm cant seem to find the line i was looking for in the dex.... did find a line that i may be confusing it with though: 'there is rarely a shortage of battlebrothers with suitable training and temperament to fill assault squad rosters as casualties occur' while this doesent mean that he have MORE assault squads it does mean our assault squads tend to stay at full strength :rolleyes: it does however mention that the marines can be deployed as assault marines and the fact that it opens up a new scale of tactics.... so does it outright mention we can have more assault squads? no. but it does make it plausible we only have 2 assault squads in a company. but other squads can reinforce assault squads. then the codex mentions we have more tactics with more assault squads... hmmmm i suddenly think this is plausible :lol: (but only for certain scenarios where its needed mind you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Tiberius Kondrad Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 My whole reason behind this is. I want 2 full Assault squads with JPs and still be able to field Bikes and Speeders with Yellow Helms and within same Co. CTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjaco Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Here's an alternate idea, your outfit is a TASK FORCE based primarily around 2nd Company. That gives you 6 Tac's and 2 Assaults, with 2 Devastators automatically. But since they are a Task Force they are augmented with an additional two Assault Squads in this case. Now you could argue that they have been assigned to this Task Force for a while so they adopted the company paint scheme as their own. Just an idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Tiberius Kondrad Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hmm, thats plausable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 all of my speeders and bikes are from the seventh company, and are assigned out when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 That isn't how I read p 25 'There is rarely a shortage of Battle-Brothers with suitable training and temprament to fill Assault Squad rosters as casualties occur' I think this means from the tactical squads, as the scouts are hardly fully trained battle brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 if you want to use the battle company formation in apocalypse... its 6 tacs, 2 assault and 2 devastator. If you just want to make it a company and not use the formation, then painting up a couple of assault squads with red helmets would probably suffice from a 'fluffy' standpoint. minor note... why do people WANT that many assault squads? the majority of lists I see with more than 2 assault squads tend to be 5 or 6 man squads... which could from a fluffy standpoint be 2 10 man squads deployed seperately and led by a sergeant (tactical marine thats older and wiser leading them)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It's not that he wants more squads, it's that he wants bikes and speeders, which are driven/piloted by assault marines normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Tiberius Kondrad Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 It's not that he wants more squads, it's that he wants bikes and speeders, which are driven/piloted by assault marines normally. Yep, you hit the nail right on the head ^_^ Something interesting though. On p8 of the Codex, it says In addition to the personal armour and weaponry required by its Battle Brothers, each company, save the 10th, also maintains a host of support vehicles, ranging Rhino and Razorback transports to Bikes and Land Speeders I read that to mean even Tactical Co's. 6 & 7, as well as Devestator Co. 9 have accesss to Bikes and Speeders. CTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 sounds reasonable to me! just paint up a few bikes/speeders with red helmets :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here's an alternate idea, your outfit is a TASK FORCE based primarily around 2nd Company. That gives you 6 Tac's and 2 Assaults, with 2 Devastators automatically. But since they are a Task Force they are augmented with an additional two Assault Squads in this case. Now you could argue that they have been assigned to this Task Force for a while so they adopted the company paint scheme as their own. Just an idea though. This is what I'm currently working on. I more or less have all the marines I need for my whole 4th company force, and I'm going to have them supported by bikes and speeders from one of the assault companies. I may make a bike/speeder squad from the 4th for when I don't use two full squads of marines and still want to maintain fluffy-ness. However I've been considering making a rodeo list so the chances are just as good that I'd use them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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