Help a young Inquisitor!

[Keirra]

Hello everyone!

 

I am new to the Hobby and having selected my first force (I haven't bought anything save the Codex), I went for the Grey Knights. The interest came in my love of Paladins and all sorts of evil vanquishing Knights in other universes. I've read the background behind the Grey Knights and I love it, but i've read also the Eisenhorn Omnibus so I am somewhat familiar with the Imperial Inquisition.

 

Being on a tight budget and with next to no games played under my proverbial belt i'm pretty unsure how to start. I know picking a Commander and two core troops is mandatory and eventually set up for small 500 point games. At this point I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some pointers on which way to go. I like both Inquisitors and Grey Knights, so it's a bit odd. ..

 

So far my thoughts are to buy Brother Captain Stern, a Unit of Terminators, a unit of power armor Grey Knights (will be using Captain Stern as a normal Brother Captain) and a dedicated transport in the form of a Razorback for the Power Armor Grey Knights

 

My second choice would be getting Inquisitor Coteaz, give him a Fire Support retinue (Henchmen with Flak Armour, Boltguns and perhaps 3 Flamers), an Inquisitorial Rhino followed by a squad of power Armour Grey Knights.

 

Regardless suggestions are welcome.

 

Signing off,

Inquisitor Trainee Keirra Lukkanen

 

Thought of the day: A moment of laxity can spawn a lifetime of heresy.

[thade]

Nothing odd about it: the GK are directed to tasks by the Inquisition...they work together often.

 

My honest first-army advice is to buy what you would enjoy painting; you're more likely to stick with it that way. B) Also, favor "more troops" over "fancier troops/gear". Volume of shots is key. And psycannons are gold. Gobble em up.

[Keirra]

To start with I thought to begin with not 500 but 750 points to bring a feeling of the whole Inquisition if i may say so. I will go down the Inquisitorial path, add a Grey Knight Commander at a later point. Thus far my list of purchases is as follows: Inquisitor Coteaz, Squad of Imperial Guardsmen (to become Henchmen), Chimera, Squad of Grey Knights, Razorback and a Squad of Grey Knight Terminators on top.

 

I'll include a list below, i'm not sure if it's even good but it's how I imagine it working:

 

Inquisitor List - 750 point (757 total)

 

Inquisitor Coteaz - 100

 

Troops:

Hencheman Warband (11)

Composition: 6 Crusaders, 2x Mystic, 3 Warriors - 152

Wargear: Warriors w/ Flamers

 

Grey Knight Strike Squad (5) - 155

Wargear: Psycannon, Psybolts, Nemesis Force Halberds

 

Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5) - 230

Wargear: Psycannon, Nemesis Force Halberds, Master Crafted Halberd

 

Dedicated Transports:

Inquisitorial Chimera - 70

Upgrades: Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer

 

Razorback - 50

Upgrades: Psybolt Ammo

 

The list goes as it is: Inquisitor Coteaz & his Warband climb in the Chimera, acting as a beacon. The Flamers & Heavy Flamers are there to soften anything the Crusaders Might come across. The mystics are there to become Psychic beacons for Grey Knight Terminators kept in orbit (reserve). The Grey Knight Squad & Razorback will provide fire support and assist the Inquisitor or Terminators as needed.

 

* Strength 6 Heavy bolters/Strength 5 Storm bolters seemed good for me. Easier to wound with them if i remember right. The two Psycannons should work well in 750 points I think. After reading carefully seems the Chimera will be able to transport the Terminators as well once the Inquisitor is out along with his people and ferry them around.

 

* For objectives I think the base will be to get the Chimera and it's cargo to objectives I may need to get to, stop it there, unload after deepstriking the Terminators. The Grey Knights will be able to secure objectives while their Razorback will drive around providing fire support where it is required.

 

As future additions I'm thinking to add a dreadnought or two and a Grey Knight Commander, as well as a Purifier Squad and Castellan Crowe. He seems rather inexpensive and good, turning Purifiers into Troops. I'm not sure if we have a miniature for Castellan Crow yet ...well it will be probably the first fellow I convert.

 

Again ideas are welcome!

[Bismarxist]

that list looks solide enough for me although I would change the Terminators MC halberd to a hammer so they can deal with monsterous creatures and walkers and keep the chimeria's hull heavy bolter and keep it back as a fire support platform

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Yes there is a model for Crowe and do remember that Terminator take up two slots in a transport.

 

The list looks good.

 

The one thing I can think of it you need some of the Hammers just for big stuff just in case. I can't remember but isn't the Hammer the same point cost as a Halbred for the Jusitar?

[Keirra]

Idea noted. Also another question for future developing this list!

 

* Do you think a couple of Dreadnoughts with 2x Twin Linked Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo would deal well with enemy vehicles, except say, Armour 13 or 14?

* Another one, has any of you tried Purifier Squads? They seem rather promising to me.

 

Codex says, Elric I can give anyone hammers for free. MasterCrafted only for the Justicar.

[Bismarxist]

I positively adore my Dreadnoughts and almost never hit the ground without at least one. although I haven't tried the psyfileman build yet, yes 4 twin-linked strength eight shot will completely eviscerate most enemy vehicles bar the av 14 ones.

 

I've played a few games with purifiers and yes they are a rock solid assault unit. however I have been unimpressed with cleansing flame, but then again most of the players around my area run power armor lists of one sort or the other

[thade]

Purifiers are heralded by many to be one of the best (if not the best) unit in the codex, point-for-point. I'm a paladin-junkie, so I can't speak to why. <3

 

Do I think Psy-Rifleman Dreads will be effective against light armor? Most definitely. :D One Dread kit + Aegis Defense Line Kit + Dremel = Rifleman. Paint it silver and pretty.

 

I caution against putting upgrades on the Justicar that you can put elsewhere in the unit, given that he is the first to go on a Perils of the Warp. I can understand wanting to give him an upgrade though, as in many squads he has +1 attack with his veteran stat line. It's a toss up; depends on what you want the unit to do while it's on the table. :)

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Idea noted. Also another question for future developing this list!

 

* Do you think a couple of Dreadnoughts with 2x Twin Linked Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo would deal well with enemy vehicles, except say, Armour 13 or 14?

* Another one, has any of you tried Purifier Squads? They seem rather promising to me.

 

Codex says, Elric I can give anyone hammers for free. MasterCrafted only for the Justicar.

Ok I would give the terminators one hammer it doesn't matter who because they all have 2 attacks and I would give the Strike Squad a hammer on the Justicar because he is the only one with 2 attacks.

[Keirra]

An updated first list ... let's hope it's better this time.

 

Inquisitor Coteaz - 100

 

Troops:

Hencheman Warband (11)

Composition: 6 Crusaders, 2x Mystic, 3 Warriors - 152

Wargear: Warriors w/ Flamers

 

Grey Knight Strike Squad (5) - 155

Wargear: Psycannon, Psybolts, 3x Nemesis Force Halberds, 1x Hammer for Justicar

 

Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5) - 230

Wargear: Psycannon, Nemesis Force Daemonhammers, MC Hammer for Justicar

 

Dedicated Transports:

Inquisitorial Chimera - 70

Upgrades: Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer

 

Razorback - 50

Upgrades: Psybolt Ammo

 

Looking now forward to buy the first wave of this list! Coteaz, the Grey Knights and Razorback :D I can borrow 5 regular terminators and some guardsmen from local players until I get my own.

[thade]

It looks okay. It looks a bit Troop light to me, but it's probably due to the point value. With Coteaz, that henchmen band is a Troop choice (if memory serves) which is good. You'll probably have fun with it. :D

 

When you expand it, definitely go with more Strike Squad(s)/PAGK. More bodies will do you good.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Just a funny comment here but if you the Ordo Malleus you really do need hammers its in the name lol. The list looks like a real solid starting point to get you into play with Grey Knights. You got the hammers in there to help with big stuff and you got good ranged weapons and you have third troops choices so you got that. The HQ is a good one to use.

[Bismarxist]

that second list is certainly an effective list but I would change the Terminators to only have the justicar carry a hammer because that is all you need and give the rest halberds

[number6]

Welcome aboard! :)

 

Considering how small your army list is, it's hard to make something outright bad. :D That said, you can still be a bit more efficient with some of your choices if you desire. IMHO, it's a good idea to pick up the right habits early so you can apply them properly when you play bigger points games and the issues involved become more apparent.

 

For Strikers, I would strive to keep upgrades on them to a minimum. I do favor hammers on Justicars -- because of their extra attack and because it is a good idea to be capable of fighting any threat that might present itself (e.g., monstrous creatures, walkers) -- but otherwise I don't believe upgrading Striker melee weapons is A Good Idea. Most of the time. There is usually an exception to every "rule", right? ;) In the case of list-building, you can likely build a list that would support the use of massive amounts of melee upgrades for strikers ... but I don't believe a small 750 pt list is that case. :lol: (Speaking of which, you appear to be 7 pts over, if that matters....)

 

Strikers are slightly-better-than-average close combatants thanks to their NFWs ... but only slightly. They're still stuck with a basic Marine statline which is the game's middle-of-the-road average. You're better off putting those points elsewhere. Either into more Striker models (since you have small squads) or into actual melee units that can put out some decent pain in an assault. For example, GK Terminators. They can get hammers and halberds for free! And they're terminators. ;) Purifiers have 2 attacks each and the costs for halberds and hammers are half what they are for Strikers, so that's just a much better deal. (In fact, I'm surprised I don't see more Purifier units with 100% hammers in them. Nasty!)

 

I like the GKT unit. :) Though I am personally in love with taking just 1 hammer and 4 halberds, since most of the time you'll find Init 6 Terminators to be incredibly handy. As with my comments on the Strikers, the hammer is really to expand the diversity of valid targets. YMMV, of course. I don't see anything actually "wrong" with wanting to go 100% hammers, I would just want to have a good number of Init 6 attacks available as well. Our terminators don't have access to storm shields, so dedicated enemy assault units can actually burn through the 2+ save and hit their weaker 5+ invul save relatively easily, and units that can do that are plentiful, and they'll put the hurt on our Terminators if not dealth with beforehand.

 

Psybolts are another upgrade that I consider purely optional. It's useful ... but not necessary. I would also not bother with it on small units. It's really only worth it on maximized units. If you're sticking with small units of Strikers, don't bother with psybolts. That's a LOT of points in a small list that can be repurposed.

 

Regarding your Henchman: Take meltas on your Warriors instead of flamers. The GK army has quite a huge ability to shoot down infantry. Mass stormbolters and psycannons are quite handly. PLUS you have a heavy flamer on the Chimera (which is always a good idea.) But melta weaponry is incredibly handy for popping the enemy vehicle you are about to assault with your crusaders. In any case, even with mass psycannons, the GKs can struggle to pop armour; it's always been the inherent limitation of the army. Take meltas where you can get them. Always.

 

I don't think your mystics do anything for you. At all. You can't afford to deep strike anything in such a small game anyway, so chuck 'em. Personally, I'd replace them with DCAs. They add a significant bite to your assault (see earlier comments about Init 6).

 

Finally, I would want to replace two of the Crusaders with Banishers wielding eviscerators. That gives you between 2-4 "thunder hammer" like attacks that also happen to really put the damage to enemy walkers. This is important for the non-GK unit because you don't have access to Str 8+; you top out at Str 6. Getting that extra armour penetration die is vital, otherwise a single enemy dreadnought can just tarpit your assault unit, neutralizing it for the entire game. Don't let that happen!

 

The combination of meltas to pop transports and then assault the stranded occupants + Init 6 DCA attacks + Banisher eviscerators + Crusader storm shields = a unit that hits very hard yet can be difficult to remove either via shooting or in assaults.

 

If you were to take all this advice on board, you could end up with something like the following.

 

HQ

[100 pts] Coteaz

 

Troop

[192 pts] 4 Crusaders, 2 Banishers w/eviscerators, 2 DCAs, 3 Warriors w/meltas

[55 pts] Chimera, hull heavy flamer

[120 pts] 5 Strikers, psycannon, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[225 pts] 5 Terminators, psycannon, 3 (?) halberds, 2 (?) hammers

 

Total: 742 pts

 

Gives you 8 pts to play with. ;)

[thade]

Strikers are slightly-better-than-average close combatants thanks to their NFWs ... but only slightly. They're still stuck with a basic Marine statline which is the game's middle-of-the-road average.

Don't discount that PAGK get 2x the shots of MEQ when they charge in (due to their storm bolters) and that Hammerhand makes them all S5; if they're wielding Halberds, they are better than Furious Charge BA tacticals on the charge. Also, they all have power weapons, so there are no armor saves to those S5 swings. If they do get charged instead, halberds mean they still swing first, and Hammerhand means they are still S5. They are very good in melee.

 

Going at I6 in melee can be extremely valuable as it will deny some (hopefully many or even all) attacks back that the unit you charged might do. Having a few halberds in that unit can be very good.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Welcome aboard! :)

 

Considering how small your army list is, it's hard to make something outright bad. :P That said, you can still be a bit more efficient with some of your choices if you desire. IMHO, it's a good idea to pick up the right habits early so you can apply them properly when you play bigger points games and the issues involved become more apparent.

 

For Strikers, I would strive to keep upgrades on them to a minimum. I do favor hammers on Justicars -- because of their extra attack and because it is a good idea to be capable of fighting any threat that might present itself (e.g., monstrous creatures, walkers) -- but otherwise I don't believe upgrading Striker melee weapons is A Good Idea. Most of the time. There is usually an exception to every "rule", right? :lol: In the case of list-building, you can likely build a list that would support the use of massive amounts of melee upgrades for strikers ... but I don't believe a small 750 pt list is that case. :lol: (Speaking of which, you appear to be 7 pts over, if that matters....)

 

Strikers are slightly-better-than-average close combatants thanks to their NFWs ... but only slightly. They're still stuck with a basic Marine statline which is the game's middle-of-the-road average. You're better off putting those points elsewhere. Either into more Striker models (since you have small squads) or into actual melee units that can put out some decent pain in an assault. For example, GK Terminators. They can get hammers and halberds for free! And they're terminators. ;) Purifiers have 2 attacks each and the costs for halberds and hammers are half what they are for Strikers, so that's just a much better deal. (In fact, I'm surprised I don't see more Purifier units with 100% hammers in them. Nasty!)

 

I like the GKT unit. :) Though I am personally in love with taking just 1 hammer and 4 halberds, since most of the time you'll find Init 6 Terminators to be incredibly handy. As with my comments on the Strikers, the hammer is really to expand the diversity of valid targets. YMMV, of course. I don't see anything actually "wrong" with wanting to go 100% hammers, I would just want to have a good number of Init 6 attacks available as well. Our terminators don't have access to storm shields, so dedicated enemy assault units can actually burn through the 2+ save and hit their weaker 5+ invul save relatively easily, and units that can do that are plentiful, and they'll put the hurt on our Terminators if not dealth with beforehand.

 

Psybolts are another upgrade that I consider purely optional. It's useful ... but not necessary. I would also not bother with it on small units. It's really only worth it on maximized units. If you're sticking with small units of Strikers, don't bother with psybolts. That's a LOT of points in a small list that can be repurposed.

 

Regarding your Henchman: Take meltas on your Warriors instead of flamers. The GK army has quite a huge ability to shoot down infantry. Mass stormbolters and psycannons are quite handly. PLUS you have a heavy flamer on the Chimera (which is always a good idea.) But melta weaponry is incredibly handy for popping the enemy vehicle you are about to assault with your crusaders. In any case, even with mass psycannons, the GKs can struggle to pop armour; it's always been the inherent limitation of the army. Take meltas where you can get them. Always.

 

I don't think your mystics do anything for you. At all. You can't afford to deep strike anything in such a small game anyway, so chuck 'em. Personally, I'd replace them with DCAs. They add a significant bite to your assault (see earlier comments about Init 6).

 

Finally, I would want to replace two of the Crusaders with Banishers wielding eviscerators. That gives you between 2-4 "thunder hammer" like attacks that also happen to really put the damage to enemy walkers. This is important for the non-GK unit because you don't have access to Str 8+; you top out at Str 6. Getting that extra armour penetration die is vital, otherwise a single enemy dreadnought can just tarpit your assault unit, neutralizing it for the entire game. Don't let that happen!

 

The combination of meltas to pop transports and then assault the stranded occupants + Init 6 DCA attacks + Banisher eviscerators + Crusader storm shields = a unit that hits very hard yet can be difficult to remove either via shooting or in assaults.

 

If you were to take all this advice on board, you could end up with something like the following.

 

HQ

[100 pts] Coteaz

 

Troop

[192 pts] 4 Crusaders, 2 Banishers w/eviscerators, 2 DCAs, 3 Warriors w/meltas

[55 pts] Chimera, hull heavy flamer

[120 pts] 5 Strikers, psycannon, Justicar w/hammer

[50 pts] Razorback, psybolts

[225 pts] 5 Terminators, psycannon, 3 (?) halberds, 2 (?) hammers

 

Total: 742 pts

 

Gives you 8 pts to play with. ;)

how much is a warrior with a meltas?

[thade]

how much is a warrior with a meltas?

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Answering this question is not something we do here. If you want specific points-costs, check the codex. If you answer this question, don't be surprised when a mod waves a very large hammer at you. <3

[Elric the Silvercoat]

how much is a warrior with a meltas?

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Answering this question is not something we do here. If you want specific points-costs, check the codex. If you answer this question, don't be surprised when a mod waves a very large hammer at you. <3

I was just wondering if the melta gun was 5 points or not that is it because if it is then that is 8 points that he could use up and get one more melta gun for this warband.

[thade]

That is in fact precisely the kind of thing we can't post. :P You can recommend he look into a melta gun, provided it falls below the remaining points (note how I used no numbers there).

[RolandTHTG]

All warriors w/ special weapons are the same points cost, wither it is a melta, flamer, or plasmagun, so its an easy switch, as it doesn't change the poinst cost of the model to go from flamer to melta.

 

Also, coteaz can cast both Hammerhand and sanctuary, providing his squad with a surprising boost in close combat.

[number6]

Don't discount that PAGK get 2x the shots of MEQ when they charge in (due to their storm bolters)

Oh yes, stormbolters are awesome. But I wasn't referring to GK superiority in shooting. ;)

 

and that Hammerhand makes them all S5; if they're wielding Halberds, they are better than Furious Charge BA tacticals on the charge. Also, they all have power weapons, so there are no armor saves to those S5 swings. If they do get charged instead, halberds mean they still swing first, and Hammerhand means they are still S5. They are very good in melee.

I don't think you can ever count on Hammerhand (or any other GK psyker power) going off. There's a lot of psychic defense available -- almost all armies have access to some form of it -- and LD 9 is exactly as reliable as a terminator's 2+ armour save. Very good ... but not "automatic" by any means. :rolleyes: The last game I actually played with massively upgraded Strikers (9 halberds and 1 hammer in a unit of 10), I was up against BA and I never got a single psyker power off. ;) And even going 1st with all those power-weapon halberds didn't help much in that game, either. I still got wiped easily by assault troops and death company. The assaulters had twice the attacks -- which was crucial -- and the DC had superior WS and thrice the attacks.

 

So while I agree that paying for the CC upgrades on Strikers makes a difference, I don't actually believe the difference is enough to warrant the expenditure. That is, the opportunity cost for the upgrades is far too high. You're better off making those upgrades on the units with superior assault capability already. I.e., terminators (better defense and 2 attacks and the upgrades are free) or purifiers (twice the attacks and 1/2 cost for the same upgrades).

 

Keep your Strikers basic. Power weapon marines are still pretty scary to most normal Troops. Considering that no amount of upgrades will make them into actual assault units, that's good enough. :yes:

[thade]

That's interesting you say so, number6; I'm usually the only player with a psychic hood in a room full of 40k players. I thought I was weird or something. :rolleyes: I can't dispute it though. Whittle down an approaching assault team enough with storm bolter fire and when they do make charge range, power weapons may be enough.

 

However, all of my PAGK are metal and holding halberds...soooooo they will still see the field. :yes:

[number6]

However, all of my PAGK are metal and holding halberds...soooooo they will still see the field. ;)

They became my purifiers. I've got 40 of them now! :)

[Elric the Silvercoat]

That is in fact precisely the kind of thing we can't post. :) You can recommend he look into a melta gun, provided it falls below the remaining points (note how I used no numbers there).

Ok them well I am sorry I guess I missed that little bit in the rules. Well I recommend the you look into a warrior with a melta gun if he can fit into the extra points you have left over.

[Keirra]

Again I come up with a few questions:

 

1. How do we deal with things like Shadow in the Warp. A friend who got me into the hobby plays tyranids and he offered to play some introductory games with me
   
2. What is the best way to deal with multiwound creatures such as Tyranid Warriors that have the Lashwhip I think, debuffing our close combat abilities.
   
3. Are Nemesis Warding Staves worth it? On paper they look very good to me at least being inexperienced.
   
4. I was considering now looking at Vindicare Assassins to remove enemy psychic defense with Master Marksman, Shieldbreaker and Turbo Penetrators. Would the Shieldbreaker's ability to remove invulnerable saves work against for example Eldar Farseer Rune armour which gives him or her a 4+ invulnerable save?
   

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Thought of the day: There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.