Vanguard Bodyguard

[Master Melta]

Hello,

 

I've been mulling something over for a while and wanted to get some B&C advice on the matter.

 

I run a shooty Iron Hands list that includes a captain and his command squad. The only problem with my set up is that the captain can really only be assault oriented, no matter what gear I give him and I typically go for the classic Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol. However, his command squad is a 4 x plasma gun toting infantry destroyer. The two just don't mix.

 

I thought about finding a melee oriented squad to roll with the captain and vanguard in a rhino or razorback sound pretty good.

 

Something like: TH, PW, maybe a shield or two, and the rest stock. Likely just a 5 man squad to keep it cheap and be able to las plas a razorback.

 

Well, what do you think? After transport and limited gear, I'm looking at around 200 points.

 

Thanks

 

MM

[thade]

Sounds like a fine loadout; I frequently accompany my melee-centric HQs with Vanguard in that way. Just make sure each Vanguard has no more than one upgrade, and that the stock vanguard in the unit number near half the squad (so someone is there to take the hits...shields count as "stock for this part).

 

At such a small size I might break that last rule...but I'd more likely stick them in a Land Raider and boost the squad size to seven or eight.

[Master Melta]

Thanks thade.

 

I'll think about the LR. I might go up to a rhino to account for more troops first.

 

Counter assault is the name of the game. I plan on running some dreads and tactical terminators as well to add to the protection of my tactical squads but wanted something that would add some quick melee to handle things that would chew through the terminators/tacts.

 

MM

[thade]

I'll think about the LR. I might go up to a rhino to account for more troops first.

Rhino can work very well for certain use cases. Sounds like you have a handle on that though.

 

Counter assault is the name of the game.

Quite right; even in the Land Raider if they punch deep and hop into the thick of it you can expect them to die within a turn or two as they get counter assaulted or shot up post-Sweep. While there are tactics that work well with "punching them deep" (tying up more than one squad at a time with multi-charge, for instance) they work well counter-charging, if not better.

 

I plan on running some dreads and tactical terminators as well to add to the protection of my tactical squads but wanted something that would add some quick melee to handle things that would chew through the terminators/tacts.

Vanguard vs Tac Terminators (5++) is not a bad fight as you do quite a few armor-ignoring attacks on the charge with even a conservative load out, but I wouldn't charge that unit without them having been shot up first. As for the legendary VV vs TH/SS scenario, when I do engage that unit of Hammernators, it's not with the Vanguard alone. I use the Vanguard's model-count and base-sizes to weave and squeeze, making sure to engage each of the Hammers and any enemy ICs so as to lock them in place...then I can put my own ICs and other charging units in where they can do damage and take minimum return heat. The Vanguard of course takes the brunt of the attack, but really that's their goal. In fact, that gives me an idea: I'm going to try a Vanguard that takes only storm shields as upgrades. @_@ It's a weird unit; not one I'd recommend, as it's super picky in use cases. I'm still going to try it though. Anyway...hope this works out for you. :lol:

[Master Melta]

Yeah, I will be doing the running of the terminators, and will use this unit to engage those that pose a threat to them in combat. To tie them up or soften them, like ork boys or even a blob squad that the terminators would beat but maybe only after taking some losses and swinging last.

 

thanks again!

 

MM

[Meatman]

When it comes to having to engage TH+SS terminators, throwing as many I2< as possible. The chose to swap the ability to strike at initiative for the better invulnerable save, so don't let them use it. 2+ is great, but not unstoppable. So yes, as Thade says, hit them with multiple squads, including your counter assaulting vanguard.

 

 

Keep them in a rhino, land raiders, while nice, defeat the point of taking vanguard. Vanguard have a major advantage over terminators in that they can go in a cheap rhino. Saving 200+ points which you can use on upgrades. If you're going the land raider route, may as well go terminators, as you get all that nice wargear as standard.

 

Sticking 5 in a las-plas razorback is a nice idea, great firepower and ability to get out and beat the tar out of anything coming close. If you're going that route, keep it cheap. Thade is like some sort of guru when it comes to vanguard, and listening to him is normally a good idea :P

 

I'd be tempted to change your captain to having a relic blade rather then a power weapon, as your squad can make up for that extra attack. The strength 6 will be a good addition. Here's what I'd do:

 

1: Sergeant with relic blade/power weapon (Which ever one your captain doesn't take)

2: Vet with power weapon

3: Vet with storm shield

4+5: stock

 

155/170 points plus transport and captain. Not at all unreasonable. Power weapons are a personal favorite of mine, just because they look cool :P Lightning claws are nice, but power swords have the rule of cool :)

[thade]

Ork Boy squads are one of my favorite things to engage with my Vanguard. Engage that power claw model with one of the VV so the power klaw hits can be soaked by the shield-bearers. Then your mean IC/assault team/tactical squad that also charges in can mop up the unit without fear of being insta-gibbed.

 

Happy to help. :) Enjoy.

[thade]

Thade is like some sort of guru when it comes to vanguard, and listening to him is normally a good idea :P

This is by far the nicest thing anybody's ever said to/about me in the context of WH. Thank you, Meatman. :) I wouldn't say I'm a guru...more than I'm a nut that's obsessed with units people claim are underpowered.

 

 

1: Sergeant with relic blade/power weapon (Which ever one your captain doesn't take)

2: Vet with power weapon

3: Vet with storm shield

4+5: stock

 

A few things here. Relic blades are awesome; don't shy away from sticking it on your Sergeant if the goal of the Vanguard is anti-infantry. Also, get a PF in the unit if you can afford it; a TH if you're feeling cheeky. A single lighting claw is strictly better than a PW (in a math-a-maxing sense) but power weapons look cool to, I concur. (I like single lit claws as I feel they look cool.) At least one vet with just a storm shield; I prefer two shield bearers (as most guys with fists get two swings and you can't always overflow back to the shield guy).

 

I can support them camping in a Rhino; I like having them in a Raider because it allows them to have a large threat range AND the Raider is a massive AV14 gun boat that provides a lot of cover for other units. :P Even if they do camp out in the back lines, that Raider is still a nice part of a Rhino wall mid to late game.

[Meatman]

Thade is like some sort of guru when it comes to vanguard, and listening to him is normally a good idea :D

This is by far the nicest thing anybody's ever said to/about me in the context of WH. Thank you, Meatman. :P I wouldn't say I'm a guru...more than I'm a nut that's obsessed with units people claim are underpowered.

 

 

You and me both, brother. Assault marines and land speeder storms ftw.

 

1: Sergeant with relic blade/power weapon (Which ever one your captain doesn't take)

2: Vet with power weapon

3: Vet with storm shield

4+5: stock

 

A few things here. Relic blades are awesome; don't shy away from sticking it on your Sergeant if the goal of the Vanguard is anti-infantry. Also, get a PF in the unit if you can afford it; a TH if you're feeling cheeky. A single lighting claw is strictly better than a PW (in a math-a-maxing sense) but power weapons look cool to, I concur. (I like single lit claws as I feel they look cool.) At least one vet with just a storm shield; I prefer two shield bearers (as most guys with fists get two swings and you can't always overflow back to the shield guy).

 

I meant to talk about fists, manage to leave them out of my post somehow? Yup, I agree, powerfists are are a must. But only on bigger units. This is a 5 man unit that still "only" has a 3+ save. Not enough bodies to protect him, especially if you're counter-charging something nasty. That's my personal opinion though, I will, however, stick a powerfist in a unit 7+, or in a 5 man if it has 2+ save, feel no pain (command squad), or increased toughness (bike squads)

 

I can support them camping in a Rhino; I like having them in a Raider because it allows them to have a large threat range AND the Raider is a massive AV14 gun boat that provides a lot of cover for other units. ^_^ Even if they do camp out in the back lines, that Raider is still a nice part of a Rhino wall mid to late game.

 

This is true. If they're going to be camping on the back lines, as you put it, I'd stick them in the twin-linked lascannon variety. Long range support ^^

[Master Melta]

On the point about Fists. I will definitally have a thunder hammer for fluff reasons and just in case, even in the 5 man squad. If he isn't able to contribute, that's fine, but I figure vs Dreads or vehicles I need something in there. I understand the logic and don't disagree, I just know I plan to use one. Especially since I have the cool IH metal ones from the IH tact squad boxes.

[thade]

If the vanguard is so small that you're worried a model with a fist/hammer won't be able to swing, you REALLY need to light that unit up before you charge, or strictly use the vanguard to charge a unit that's already engaged. (Still, wound them a lot first.) I recommend 2-3 more guys. :)

[Master Melta]

Good points! Nowadays with casualty selection I have hard times shooting then charging since people know it's coming and pull the closest first. Countering or assaulting into a squad that is tarpitted with a dread will be preferred tactics.

[thade]

Awesome.

[Master Melta]

yeah, Iron Clads really are tough to beat, even with fists attacking them and don't have damage output once in combat to finishing things off quickly.

 

That's were these lads and terminators(yes tactical!) will come in.

 

Thanks again for all the positive advice! It's not to get a list of these responses: "Those are dung, use TH SS terminators instead"

 

MM

[thade]

Possibly because I've been duking it out in TH/SS vs VV threads for weeks now; people have perhaps grown tired of it. :) OR LEARNED THAT VANGUARD ARE ACTUALLY USEFUL. More likely the former.

[Meatman]

I can understand why you choose a thunderhammer, they also benefit from rule of cool, and having that assurance against dreads and T4 multi-wound stuff is always handy. Best of luck with your unit and let us know how it performs :cuss

 

Possibly because I've been duking it out in TH/SS vs VV threads for weeks now; people have perhaps grown tired of it. :lol: OR LEARNED THAT VANGUARD ARE ACTUALLY USEFUL. More likely the former.

 

I've been having to argue against using Shrike and TH+SS terminators so many times it gets tedious. As a community, we will make TH+SS terminators redundant!

[Master Melta]

List up on the army list review.

 

Please provide feedback if you are able.

 

Thanks

 

MM