Psyfile dreads

[Toasterfree]

Looking at making GK my second army and I have a 2k list pointed that I am happy with but are psyfile dreads THAT effective? Sure being s8 is amazing and that gives them more of a punch against a lot of stuff, but is it worth taking two?

[uberschveinen]

The thing is, everyone these days rocks light vehicles as transports because 5th edition and the codex changes make them almost universally cheap and effective. Psyflemen are one of the game's premiere choices for dealing with this target, and the Grey Knights don't have that much else that specialises in this role at all, let alone so well.

[Valerian]

Looking at making GK my second army and I have a 2k list pointed that I am happy with but are psyfile dreads THAT effective? Sure being s8 is amazing and that gives them more of a punch against a lot of stuff, but is it worth taking two?

 

4 shots each on a mobile platform (Walker), that don't miss often (twin-linked), are hell on infantry or light armour (strength 8). All for a 5 point upgrade? Yeah, they're pretty much a no-brainer. What else are you going to do with those points in that FOC slot?

 

Valerian

[Toasterfree]

only other thing i was looking at was a DK. the DK i have no idea what I would put on him though, possibly the heavy incen and a heavy psy can

 

Looking at making GK my second army and I have a 2k list pointed that I am happy with but are psyfile dreads THAT effective? Sure being s8 is amazing and that gives them more of a punch against a lot of stuff, but is it worth taking two?

 

4 shots each on a mobile platform (Walker), that don't miss often (twin-linked), are hell on infantry or armour (strength 8 and Rending). All for a 5 point upgrade? Yeah, they're pretty much a no-brainer. What else are you going to do with those points in that FOC slot?

 

Valerian

where is the rending on the autocannon?

[Valerian]

only other thing i was looking at was a DK. the DK i have no idea what I would put on him though, possibly the heavy incen and a heavy psy can

 

Looking at making GK my second army and I have a 2k list pointed that I am happy with but are psyfile dreads THAT effective? Sure being s8 is amazing and that gives them more of a punch against a lot of stuff, but is it worth taking two?

 

4 shots each on a mobile platform (Walker), that don't miss often (twin-linked), are hell on infantry or armour (strength 8 and Rending). All for a 5 point upgrade? Yeah, they're pretty much a no-brainer. What else are you going to do with those points in that FOC slot?

 

Valerian

where is the rending on the autocannon?

 

Oops, disregard the Rending part. Those Psybolt upgraded Autocannon still shred light armor, like transports and enemy walkers. They also have a nice 48" range, which hardly anything else in a GK force has. It's real nice to be able to reach out and touch, while other units move to position.

 

V

[Toasterfree]

yeah i didnt think that there was rending there, you made me really happy and then i was sad again.... lol

 

 

do you think that two is enough, or should you spam at least three?

[Inquisitor Fox]

That depends.. what type of vehicles and other weapon platforms are you running?

 

If you are including things that also have the range (Jokaero, Land Raiders, Razorbacks potentially, Storm Ravens, etc) spamming multiple becomes less of an issue. In my opinion, it's not about how many of one unit you have, but how many units can pull off the same or similar role. If you have two or three units with a 36 - 48" range (say, a Storm Raven, Autocannon Dreadnought, then some Jokaero or perhaps a Razorback) having multiple dreads is less of an issue. How you get those multiple units with range capability is up to you :P

[Toasterfree]

ive got two plazorbacks as my other fire supports. which should be enough with the shooting going at my psyfles to allow them to move up for a turn or two to get max range on people, plus my DS terms with a psycan.

[nurglez]

The problem with DK's, is that if you want them to be effective, you will want to give them a personal teleporter, and then they cost a lot!

The psyrifle dread brings something that grey knight's generally don't have, a long range str 8 weapon. Also don't forget about the reinforced aegis, -4 to psychic tests vs targets within 12 inches of the dread is rather nice, and both of those reasons are why I have 1 dread in my 2000 point draigo wing list :)

 

2 should be fine, 3 is in my opinion overkill, also worth remembering that it is very useful vs light vehicles, can still glance armour 14, and will instant kill toughness 4 chars (though with an ap of 4 does allow most saves...).

[DarkGuard]

My friend uses two normal psyfleman Dreads and two Ven psyfleman Dreads. And he's thinking of adding a 3rd normal one, as the last Elite slot is occupied by a Vindicare. Add that to the amount of psycannon shots he has in his Rhinos through Purifier spam and I'm really worried for him. It's such a boring list to play against and I'm worried people will stop playing him soon, especially if he runs a 5th psyfleman. But hey, he swears by them, and they're very effective, to the point that now everyone runs them and I've even heard people say that Rifleman Dreads in the other Codices aren't good choices anymore :).

[Toasterfree]

The problem with DK's, is that if you want them to be effective, you will want to give them a personal teleporter, and then they cost a lot!

The psyrifle dread brings something that grey knight's generally don't have, a long range str 8 weapon. Also don't forget about the reinforced aegis, -4 to psychic tests vs targets within 12 inches of the dread is rather nice, and both of those reasons are why I have 1 dread in my 2000 point draigo wing list :D

 

2 should be fine, 3 is in my opinion overkill, also worth remembering that it is very useful vs light vehicles, can still glance armour 14, and will instant kill toughness 4 chars (though with an ap of 4 does allow most saves...).

thats part of the reason to take them is the long range s8. the reinforced aegis is something also. should I walk the dreads forward and keep them as a buffer for those units? i think a DK with the GKGM in the list wouldnt be bad as I could make it a scout and then I get that free movement at the beginning of the game, same with the purs in their trucks with guns.

 

My friend uses two normal psyfleman Dreads and two Ven psyfleman Dreads. And he's thinking of adding a 3rd normal one, as the last Elite slot is occupied by a Vindicare. Add that to the amount of psycannon shots he has in his Rhinos through Purifier spam and I'm really worried for him. It's such a boring list to play against and I'm worried people will stop playing him soon, especially if he runs a 5th psyfleman. But hey, he swears by them, and they're very effective, to the point that now everyone runs them and I've even heard people say that Rifleman Dreads in the other Codices aren't good choices anymore ^_^.

i stopped running my rifleman dread in my SW list for two reasons, one people stopped taking lots of light trucks against me since I was shooting them down all the time, and two they would go to the opposite side as me where I was a little weaker. Which is why I wanted to take two, but I think more than that and people start to get pissy. last thing i want to do is piss everyone off that I play.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In response to OP:

 

I take two in every list I play, and they perform superbly at their intended role. Against things they're not suited to killing (heavily armoured targets, anything AV13 or AV14, horde infantry), they are a bit failtastic however. Also, you often have to concentrate fire to achieve the desired results; the damage roll can and often will screw you with 1-3's (which most transports don't care about, Landraiders even less so).

 

Don't rely on them to be your sole long-ranged anti-tank though. I find the Vindicare invaluable, because his turbo-penetrator shot is just about the only long-range weapon you have for damaging AV13/14. He reliably blows up or immobilises my mates LRC game after game, while the Dreads just plink off its hull. He's also certain death to lighter armour, as you have roll stupidly bad not to penetrate. Secondarily, the Vindicare can blow storm shields off characters etc. Primarily though, he's an anti-tank sniper rifle.

 

My other anti-tank counter is a greatsword+teleporter+heavy psycannon Dreadknight. He does clock in at a lot of points, but he's tough as hell and hunts down armour like a pro (re-rolls to hit and armour penetration is huge against something like a Raider). The heavy psycannon is a personal choice, I find it variable but when it works, you cause serious carnage to light armour and infantry.

 

In response to other posters;

 

How about not caring what other people think of your list? If they're whining about it being unbeatable, you're not the one with the problem. Build whatever you like as an army, don't place arbitrary restrictions upon yourself to please small-minded opponents. Autocannon Dreads do one thing really well; they damage light-medium armour very reliably. Against most other targets, they vary from mediocre to downright useless. If youre opponent doesn't have the imagination to build counters (Dreadnoughts have a number of weaknesses), or re-do his army to make your Dreads useless (for example, foot horde or heavy armour/infantry aren't as worried about a couple of autocannon rounds), thats his problem.

[thade]

Rifleman Dreads in marine lists are nice against light armor (Rhinos, Chimeras, and to an extent other dreads); adding one to their strength only increases that. If you're stacking psycannons or other anti-heavy armor in your list, you can commit your Rifleman Dread(s) to transport popping. Robbing your opponent of mobility plays to the GK's strength of firing at full strength at 24" on the move.

 

A teleporterless DK is like a very, very large Demon Prince without wings. It's either going to spend a lot of time running and taking fire or it's going to hide behind a very tall building playing base defense. I hesitate to say they're useless, but I definitely agree that they are worth their weight in gold with the teleporter pack.

 

I recommenda gainst the H Psycannon on the DK. A single shot large blast template doesn't seem worth it to me. You can get pretty creative with the H Incinerator though. :)

[Toasterfree]

but i feel the h psilencer is a waste of life......the h psycan would be a better choice.

 

the teleport allows him to move 12 correct (the DK)

[Brother Valerius]

but i feel the h psilencer is a waste of life......the h psycan would be a better choice.

 

True, but that doesn't mean you should take the heavy psycannon either. I would, in truth, take neither unless it was just to mess around (in which case I'd take the gatling psilencer, because spewing that many shots in one round makes me giddy).

 

the teleport allows him to move 12 correct (the DK)

 

Yep. Moves as jump infantry, with the once-per-game 30" shunt.

[templargdt]

I take two Rifleman dreads with Psybolts in every single list. Light to medium armor and monsterous creatures get slammed by them. Three might be overkill but I haven't tried it yet.

[Brother Knight]

I take 2 and use a Grand Master to make them scoring and plant them on a home objective, not much will shift these to dreads especially if you deploy the objectives carefully near cover as most barricades will cover half your dread giving you a decent cover save ;)

In 1500 points they will wreak havoc! target their killy units' transport and watch them footslogg across the board whilst your PAGK harass them wih str 5 bolters :cuss with 48" range they will touch the transport forcing it either to take longer to reach you, due to cover jumping, or just take it out and watch the unit footslogg into your 24" bolter range at which point it'll take them approximately 3 turns to reach you ;)

Also dark eldar will hate you if yu choose to deepstrike them and then take out their ravagers with them as this for me has negated 6 dark light weapons which would have otherwise ravaged my terms :D

[DarkGuard]

I take two Rifleman dreads with Psybolts in every single list. Light to medium armor and monsterous creatures get slammed by them. Three might be overkill but I haven't tried it yet.

 

Three are overkill IMO. If you take two you can stick one in each corner, I suppose the third can go down the centre, but then you're lacking in scoring units, mass infantry firepower, assault capability. You need to balance things nicely, and one does fine, two is good, three is too much, especially as you lock yourself out of using other units.

[Darkmagi]

On the idea of the Psy-rifle dread has anyone tried using them with TLAC and DCCW? Especially of the ven-dread variety? I think this could be a potent mix as they can still advance with the rest of the army allowing you to take advantage of the reinforced aegis ad helping fix the issue of tar-pitting.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The problem with DK's, is that if you want them to be effective, you will want to give them a personal teleporter, and then they cost a lot!

 

Yeah but it's so worth it. With the greatsword and teleporter, he's not that much more than a Tzeentchian Daemon Prince, but his re-rolls are always 'on' (as opposed to requiring a psychic test), you have the 30" shunt built in, and the 2+ armour save is a huge boost vs the meta-game of krak spammage.

 

I recommenda gainst the H Psycannon on the DK. A single shot large blast template doesn't seem worth it to me. You can get pretty creative with the H Incinerator though.

 

Have a try with it man, I've found it much more effective than the dinky super-flamer. Rending is awesome, and unless you roll really badly for scatter, you usually cause at least a few wounds before charging in.

 

I would, in truth, take neither unless it was just to mess around (in which case I'd take the gatling psilencer, because spewing that many shots in one round makes me giddy).

 

Gatling silencer is only for lulz, it is truly one of the worst guns they've ever invented. S4 shooting is something Knights already do just fine, and even against my local Daemon player, it's pretty close to useless.

 

Three are overkill IMO. If you take two you can stick one in each corner, I suppose the third can go down the centre, but then you're lacking in scoring units, mass infantry firepower, assault capability. You need to balance things nicely, and one does fine, two is good, three is too much, especially as you lock yourself out of using other units.

 

Pretty much. I mean they invented the rules for the Dreadknight to be super-awesome so the model would sell. Three Dreads is boring and getting redundant (and our Venerable Dreads are stupidly expensive). Take the crazy alien-designed exoskeleton guy. Where the Dreads fail, he succeeds brillantly. Short of Stormhammers or other Deathstars, he's very hard to stop. Landraiders can't drive fast enough to escape him either.

[Toasterfree]

I take 2 and use a Grand Master to make them scoring and plant them on a home objective, not much will shift these to dreads especially if you deploy the objectives carefully near cover as most barricades will cover half your dread giving you a decent cover save :)

 

that brings another question. the GKGM does he give ALL of the unit type that special rule i.e. walkers. I have two dread if i choose walkers do all dreads get it? if i choose infantry do all non-scoring infantry get it? Or if I get 3 on my d3 do i have to PICK which units they are?

[Darkmagi]

you need to pick so if you get a 3 you can pick 3 dreads or 2 dreads and a dreadknight or any combination of 3 allowed units

[thade]

I take 2 and use a Grand Master to make them scoring and plant them on a home objective...

I'm very leery of doing this as the thought of a single lucky shot robbing me of a control point makes me uncomfortable; still it has theoretical merit. Then again, you didn't say they were all you had sitting on those objectives. If they were accompanied by PAGK or even scoring henchmen it could be okay. (Then again, if you are applying pressure elsewhere they might get left alone in many cases.)

[templargdt]

I think having two scoring dreads (in cover, hopefully) on a objective is pretty solid, in theory. Still haven't had a chance to test since I'm loving my Librarian so much.

 

Really, I think at decent sized games (1750, not say, 2500) if you want to get rid of them you're going to need to get some melta in half range to get the job done. If you drop the objective on a board edge that's going to be tough for your opponent to do.

[Toasterfree]

I actually agree with thade on this, I don't really like the idea of a scoring dread. A scoring mc eh. If the table was right then I could look at maybe doing a scoring dread but it would have to be right.