Help vs BA

[Darkmagi]

Ok I have a buddy of mine who is working up a BA list for Hard Boyz, when he told me the list I shivered because I have no idea how to deal with this much armor... the approximate list is:

 

3x storm raven carrying blood talon furiosos

4x god hammer land raiders as dedicated transports for assault squads

and a captain or libby in tda...

the storm ravens can certainly be psy-rifle dread fodder but how to deal with the massed av14?

 

The main issue here is any solution must be pure gk.... no inquisition.

[thade]

Bring as many psycannons as you can. :) Also, between techmarines and Bro Capts you can have upnto five orbital strikes...

[nurglez]

psycannon's can own landraiders, but the problem is range. if you are in range to shoot, chances are they are in range to assault you next turn (with base size, assault range of a unit in a landraider is around 20-22 inches). storm raven's with multi melta's might help, but thats still only 1 shot and to get the extra penetration you will need to be within 12...

 

Orbital strikes are a bit hit and miss :) , a conversion beamer might help, but only at 42inches +

 

Good luck ^_^

[thade]

psycannon's can own landraiders, but the problem is range. if you are in range to shoot, chances are they are in range to assault you next turn (with base size, assault range of a unit in a landraider is around 20-22 inches). storm raven's with multi melta's might help, but thats still only 1 shot and to get the extra penetration you will need to be within 12...

These are sound points. Note however the sheer number of psycannons you could have on the table in this kind of a game though. I'd take at least one or two Purgation squads even and - were it not a kill point mission - I'd combat squad everything. With luck and planning, you'll still have shooting to spare to soften up the contents after Rending open the Raiders as they approach.

 

 

Orbital strikes are a bit hit and miss :D

No doubt. Don't take just one. Minimum two; I'd almost assert minimum three...

 

a conversion beamer might help, but only at 42inches +

If only we could mount these on bikes like the Vanilla codex. I'd sooner risk the Orbital Strike. ^_^

 

A DK or two with Greatswords hanging around your gun line can mop up whatever gets that close (provided they survive the lascannon salvos). If they are Phobos pattern LRs, get your DKs up and in early...or reserve them and use Communion to keep them on the bench until the fight is at your doorstep.

[shan vener]

well heres some advice from a BA player. it's actually VERY hard to kill a stormraven due to the fact that any semi-intelligent BA player will turbo boost and use PotMS to fire a lascannon or a bloodstrike missile which will make your dreads have a very bad day.

[Azurious]

that is a lot of nasty armour, however theres a complete lack of anything infantry wise that would cause your gk's to so much as sweat, hes spending a minimum of 1560 pts on his veichles add to that his hq and hes only looking at four min sized assault squads in those raiders.

 

Personally I would go for a groundpounder force with 3 psyfleman dreads and a vindicare ass then simply squeeze as many psycannons into the list as possible and give every squad at least one deamon hammer.

 

The BA list is very nice, and it would potentially ruin a mech guardsmans day, however I think a solid GK list is one of the most hated matchups that list could face as while theres a lot of scare in it it lacks the finishing touch to deal with footslogging knights as the only real things that are gonna cause serious damage are the bloodtalon dreads and even then you can include countermeasures in your units to deal with them.

 

I would love to hear how you get on if you play him though as atm this is all just theoretical ^^

[Inquisitor Fox]

The Assault squads are most likely minimum sized if they still exist in that list, which brings up the following point: Ignore the armor as much as possible and kill the troops. I'm not saying ignore it completely, because then it kills you... but this goes back to my point of "Keep your mind on the mission objectives." With psycannons even our basic infantry squads can kill a Land Raider, and chances are Grey Knights are better in combat with their Nemesis Force Weapons than a bare bones Blood Angel Assault Squad at 5 men to be able to fit that much armor into a list points wise.

 

As long as you're taking hammers to deal with Dreadnoughts, or gunning them down yourself, deal with things as they come and keep your mind on the mission objectives. Keep your cool and it aught to be okay. Psycannons are a godsend because they're a weapon that can do everything we need it to do, back it up with some long range firepower of your own (psyflemen should do fine against a Storm Raven, as they should be able to put one or two wounds on it each turn and they'll fail saves eventually), and above all "Don't Panic!" :tu:

[Toasterfree]

well heres some advice from a BA player. it's actually VERY hard to kill a stormraven due to the fact that any semi-intelligent BA player will turbo boost and use PotMS to fire a lascannon or a bloodstrike missile which will make your dreads have a very bad day.

iirc even if you turbo boost you cannot fire with PoTMS. i am not very good with fast vehics so please correct me if i am wrong.

 

dont count on psyifles or psycs. you need something that can reliably break armor of any kind. a DK may be short survived, but he can do it. a psyifle has a chance to do it, and plazors or twinlasazors can do it. i think thougt that the SR may be a better choice

[JamesI]

well heres some advice from a BA player. it's actually VERY hard to kill a stormraven due to the fact that any semi-intelligent BA player will turbo boost and use PotMS to fire a lascannon or a bloodstrike missile which will make your dreads have a very bad day.

iirc even if you turbo boost you cannot fire with PoTMS. i am not very good with fast vehics so please correct me if i am wrong.

 

dont count on psyifles or psycs. you need something that can reliably break armor of any kind. a DK may be short survived, but he can do it. a psyifle has a chance to do it, and plazors or twinlasazors can do it. i think thougt that the SR may be a better choice

The Storm Raven can move fast and still use 1 gun through POTMS.

[Toasterfree]

well heres some advice from a BA player. it's actually VERY hard to kill a stormraven due to the fact that any semi-intelligent BA player will turbo boost and use PotMS to fire a lascannon or a bloodstrike missile which will make your dreads have a very bad day.

iirc even if you turbo boost you cannot fire with PoTMS. i am not very good with fast vehics so please correct me if i am wrong.

 

dont count on psyifles or psycs. you need something that can reliably break armor of any kind. a DK may be short survived, but he can do it. a psyifle has a chance to do it, and plazors or twinlasazors can do it. i think thougt that the SR may be a better choice

The Storm Raven can move fast and still use 1 gun through POTMS.

does that also allow you to fire s4 weapons?

[JamesI]

well heres some advice from a BA player. it's actually VERY hard to kill a stormraven due to the fact that any semi-intelligent BA player will turbo boost and use PotMS to fire a lascannon or a bloodstrike missile which will make your dreads have a very bad day.

iirc even if you turbo boost you cannot fire with PoTMS. i am not very good with fast vehics so please correct me if i am wrong.

 

dont count on psyifles or psycs. you need something that can reliably break armor of any kind. a DK may be short survived, but he can do it. a psyifle has a chance to do it, and plazors or twinlasazors can do it. i think thougt that the SR may be a better choice

The Storm Raven can move fast and still use 1 gun through POTMS.

does that also allow you to fire s4 weapons?

Nope, just 1 weapon from POTMS.

[Toasterfree]

and the bloodstrike is a s8 missile right?

[BrotherWasted]

1 TL Lascannon? Vs A Dreadnought?

 

I don't see a reason to be scared. It's a 50/50 to penetrate and a 1/3 to destroy. Including the potential cover saves available, I don't really like your odds there. On the other hand, I have 4 S8 TL shots. Almost guaranteed to hit with all 4, 1/3 chance to penetrate for all hits, something is bound to penetrate eventually. Especially if I have multiple dreads and Psycannons on the table.

[thade]

and the bloodstrike is a s8 missile right?

S8 AP1, single shot. (Like a hunter-killer missile, only with a dumb new name.)

 

PotMS allows a vehicle to fire one more weapon than it would otherwise be allowed to. How many weapons can it fire when it turbo boosts? Zero. What's zero plus one? <3 One gun.

 

It's still AV12, turbo boost or no. Overwhelm it with psycannon bolts, he'll fail a save eventually.

 

"Kill the troops" is a great way to go about things though. If they're sacrificing scoring bodies, make them pay for it.

[templargdt]

To the OP:

 

AV14 is not going to go down to Psycannon rounds. You have a 3.5% chance to destroy an AV14 target per psycannon hit.

 

Versus massed Land Raiders, I think your best bet is going to be Demon Hammers with hammerhand. How do you feel about interceptors?

 

I would recommend something like this:

 

3x Rifleman dreads. Shoot down storm ravens to get at the blood talon dreads (who will wipe your infantry out if you let them.)

 

Lots of interceptors. Manuever them so that they are waiting in range of the now on the ground dreads. Use their psycannons and any other psycannons you can get in range to immobilize/wreck the Furiosos.

 

Once that is done, move in the interceptors and start hammering away at the Land Raiders. If you bring a Librarian, giving him "Might of Titan" would be really helpful here.

 

Watch out for a Land Raider Redeemer.

 

Good luck!

[BrotherWasted]

And yet, those are still better odds than a lascannon when you factor in the number of shots per gun.

 

Both weapons need 6 to penetrate/rend and both have a 1/3 chance to destroy.

[Inquisitor Fox]

It's true... psycannons end up more effective than lascannons due to the rate of fire. Scary isn't it? The difference is in range and potential waste of the rest of the units shots...

[Darkmagi]

Wow thanks for all the reply's... as other then termies i only have 4 pa psycannons and 2 interceptor psycannons i shall have to look into psyrifle dreads for swatting ravens then maby running termie squads with hammers as a way to possibly breakt he av14... thanks for all the ideas so far... keep em coming though am always interested to hear ideas on how to deal with heavy armor

[Souba]

a libby with warp rift can also be very devastating for those raiders. put him in a save squad and he can bring very good results.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Tehehehehe....I'm assuming this is at 2.5k, cut out the Terminators and warding stave if it's 2k

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/warding stave, 'Might', 'Quicksilver', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding', 3 x servo-skulls

(220 points)

 

Troops:

 

Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Bro Banner, 2 x Terminators w/hammers,

2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 4 x Terminators w/halberd

(475 points)

 

(2) Justicar w/master-crafted hammer, 2 x Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Knights

(235 points each)

 

Fast Attack:

 

(3) Stormraven w/twin multi-melta, twin lascannon

(205 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(3) Dreadknight w/greatsword, teleporter

(230 points each)

 

Total: 2,500 points

 

Still 30 points short, so take a heavy incinerator or something. You've got 3 Stormravens to suicide melta his Raiders, and three Dreadknights to eat his Raiders and hunt down the Stormravens. Bait the Stormravens into moving where the servo-skulls are (to destroy them and thus ruin your Deepstrike attempts), then move your Stormravens on from Reserve and annhilate his Raiders. Then it'll be a duel between the Thunderchickens.

 

To make him really sweat, you probably match numbers of power-armoured manz, but yours are in full squads and outshoot him by a lot. There is also the Terminator blob, which combined with 'Shrouding' will frustrate his attempts to lascannon snipe them, and will mush his heavy armour if it comes near them. You also eat his Librarian and tiny combat squads handily with shooting or assault.

[thade]

Yea, I'd take massed psycannon fire over a LR swarm any day of the week. Just like a pack of Nobz w/ power klawz, you can glance a LR to death with sufficient volume of shots.

 

Don't neglect the psychological impact of a boat-load of psycannons either. The common conception is that they shred AV14 (even more effectively than they actually do) so you might be able to use that to your advantage. If he's too timid early, you might be able to ground the LRs with scary things inside on his table side. :)