MaliGn Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Right, so everyone has perpetually been disgruntled with the loss of cult terminators and generally everything else about the chaos codex, I was thinking last night that perhaps there was a simple solution. based on the way that wargear options for SM commanders affect what unit may be taken as troops etc. here's my idea. 1. move cult troops to elites. 2. give cult units the option to buy terminator armour/bikes and replace their wargear etc etc. for an appropriate points jump. (bikes move them to Fast attack) 3. allow marked chaos lords to take the appropriate cult units as troops, unless they have terminator armour (stay as elites) or (fast attack) unless the lord himself is equipped with either terminator armour or bike himself. 4. add in undivided lords with terminator armour/bike to take terminators/bikes as troops a la Space Marines 5. Add the option for Lords to take the effects of Posession also allowing Posessed as troops 6. you would be able to take elite cult units from another god even if you had a mark on your lord (if you so desired) This would allow for the oft missed cult terminators, hopefully without tipping any balance too far. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Without a decent delivery system our terminators would still probably end up sub par unfortunately. Not really a fan of Termies as troops either.... We've already got Deathwing and Draigo Wing, do we really need to add Chaos Wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Without a decent delivery system our terminators would still probably end up sub par unfortunately. Not really a fan of Termies as troops either.... We've already got Deathwing and Draigo Wing, do we really need to add Chaos Wing? A small team or two of Chosen with icons to infiltrate and create secure deliver for deep-strike? Should work theoretically I think. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffy.Gee Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 We've already got Deathwing and Draigo Wing, do we really need to add Chaos Wing? Spikey wing? JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 A small team or two of Chosen with icons to infiltrate and create secure deliver for deep-strike? Should work theoretically I think. TDA The problem would then be keeping them (the Chosen) alive until the termies arrive...(reserve rolls are not my friend). Increasing the squad sizes (for survivability) would just get cost prohibitive in my opinion... Dreadclaws, better Land Raiders, some kind of DOA rule...I really don't know... edit - grammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I dunno but i would rather have them do the following. Chosen > single entry to customize > Cult upgrade through mark or Icon > TDA, Bikes, jumppack upgrade Chaos Spacemarines > Cult upgrade through mark or icon/ or possessed (makes them more usefull) Traitor guard > Cult upgrade throuh Icon > Mutants upgrade Lesser Daemons > Mark upgrade > 1 per chaos spacemarine unit may take up a slot on the FOC > wings make them fast instead of troops. Marks grant statt bonus, access to special wargear and a special skill. Icons only provide a statt bonus and its lost when icon bearer is slain. Addition of the Dreadclaw (droppod for chaos for those who dont know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Strange how all the four cults theoretically will fit having the same "skill": feel no pain... Plague Marines: Well, duh, they doesn't feel pain and if you hit them with something you'll be as likely to hit something they weren't using anyway(like spleen, lung or something else useless)... Noise Marines: Pain is what they are after, and they are completely pumped full of drugs. If you take their arm off it's not likely it even registers in their brain, they might just carry a spare around anyway from some victim... Berzerkers: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! They don't care if they are hit, they are so into their rage that you could take a leg off and they'd still come charging at you with their chainaxe, take their arms off and they'll come and bite you to death! Thousand Sons: Walking suits of armour...they literally feel no pain, there is no body to be able to feel anything...a boltershot destroying so much of the armour that the soul inside is incapable of moving it anymore? Not very likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 We've already got Deathwing and Draigo Wing, do we really need to add Chaos Wing? Spikey wing? JG Well it existed with the old codex... You had Slaanesh = Lustwing Tzeentch = Dustwing Nurgle = Plaguewing Well not all terminators but terminator heavy lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 About Dreadclaws, I think Chaos Space Marines version of a Drop Pod should allow for assault in the turn they land. And assault ramps/open top for Rhinos for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 About Dreadclaws, I think Chaos Space Marines version of a Drop Pod should allow for assault in the turn they land. Why? What justification would there be for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Perhaps, 'cause of bloodthirst and thirst for battle being much more than the loyalist one? However, after the Grey Knights it isn't so evident)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The justufication is that its the way Dreadclaws are designed. They are designed to allow direct assault after landing,plus the fact that a squad can re-embark in it a fly somewhere else on the table. And thats how they work with their rules, they count as open topped vehicles for purpose of disembarking,and because he is a flyer thats lands in orbital landing and not in Deep Striking,you can assault in the same turn. Why do you think a Dreadclaw cost twice the price of a regular Drop Pod? Now i'm not sure about the ramp on Rhinos,maybe a new variant of lite assault vehicle then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baragash Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 And thats how they work with their rules, they count as open topped vehicles for purpose of disembarking,and because he is a flyer thats lands in orbital landing and not in Deep Striking,you can assault in the same turn. FW FAQ says use the Drop Pod rules and ignore the reference to flyers, they DS and you can't assault. You still get to hover around the board from the following turn though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 About Dreadclaws, I think Chaos Space Marines version of a Drop Pod should allow for assault in the turn they land. Why? What justification would there be for this? Chaos knows how to install an assault ramp in their pods, Loyalists are too dumb. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 And thats how they work with their rules, they count as open topped vehicles for purpose of disembarking,and because he is a flyer thats lands in orbital landing and not in Deep Striking,you can assault in the same turn. FW FAQ says use the Drop Pod rules and ignore the reference to flyers, they DS and you can't assault. You still get to hover around the board from the following turn though. The Faqs says it comes from reserves as a Drop Pod,but that the following turns it use the Flyer Hover mode,as described in IA Apoc book,wich then allow a unit that disembard it to assault. So you can the first turn it comes on the table DS him next to or behind a high enough cover, and the next turn declare that he use the Hover mode to move around,and then letting disembark his squads with the opentopped rule and thus allowing them to assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverike_prime Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I dunno but i would rather have them do the following. Chaos Spacemarines > Cult upgrade through mark or icon/ or possessed (makes them more usefull) dear god! NO! I've seen this suggested dozens of times and it's a bad idea every time. Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Khorne =/= Khorne Berzerkers Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Slaanesh =/= Slaanesh Noise Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Nurgle =/= Nurgle Plague Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Tzeentch =/= .... erm... I'll come back to this one I'm sorry, but the Cult Marines represent pinnacles of debasement. The marines transcend their trans-humanity and become something totally different. Berzerkers have given themselve over fully to their blood lust and gone even further then that. You don't become this super-sadistic, blood lusting psycho simply by painting the Icon of Khorne on your arm. With the exception of the Thousand Sons, all the cult marines represent the end result of decades of service and debasement to their chosen god. Look at the Chaos Lord we have now. We don't get A World Eaters champion, we got a Lord with +1 attack. This was my single biggest pet peeve with the 3.5 codex. You couldn't run non-cult marked troops. You take CSMs, given 'em mark of whatever and presto. Now you've got cult troops. The Thousand Sons are a bit unique as they are the exception. Literally, like Tzeentch is ment to be the essence of change, and the Thousand Sons are unchanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_giles Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 dear god! NO! I've seen this suggested dozens of times and it's a bad idea every time. Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Khorne =/= Khorne Berzerkers Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Slaanesh =/= Slaanesh Noise Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Nurgle =/= Nurgle Plague Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Tzeentch =/= .... erm... I'll come back to this one I'm sorry, but the Cult Marines represent pinnacles of debasement. The marines transcend their trans-humanity and become something totally different. Berzerkers have given themselve over fully to their blood lust and gone even further then that. You don't become this super-sadistic, blood lusting psycho simply by painting the Icon of Khorne on your arm. With the exception of the Thousand Sons, all the cult marines represent the end result of decades of service and debasement to their chosen god. Look at the Chaos Lord we have now. We don't get A World Eaters champion, we got a Lord with +1 attack. This was my single biggest pet peeve with the 3.5 codex. You couldn't run non-cult marked troops. You take CSMs, given 'em mark of whatever and presto. Now you've got cult troops. The Thousand Sons are a bit unique as they are the exception. Literally, like Tzeentch is ment to be the essence of change, and the Thousand Sons are unchanging. I'll be honest, I liked it better than the whole "give a squad a mark and make them marginally better" method that we had in the 3.0 codex. Which is what we have right now, you take a squad of CSMs and give them a marginal upgrade. Believe me, I ran armies like that and they tended to suck compared to a full cult list. The notable exception was Slaanesh Marines close combat squads. Although I do kinda like the idea of the "pure" legions being able to take cult troops again. Word Bearers Thousand Sons, anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverike_prime Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 dear god! NO! I've seen this suggested dozens of times and it's a bad idea every time. Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Khorne =/= Khorne Berzerkers Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Slaanesh =/= Slaanesh Noise Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Nurgle =/= Nurgle Plague Marines Chaos Space Marines + Mark of Tzeentch =/= .... erm... I'll come back to this one I'm sorry, but the Cult Marines represent pinnacles of debasement. The marines transcend their trans-humanity and become something totally different. Berzerkers have given themselve over fully to their blood lust and gone even further then that. You don't become this super-sadistic, blood lusting psycho simply by painting the Icon of Khorne on your arm. With the exception of the Thousand Sons, all the cult marines represent the end result of decades of service and debasement to their chosen god. Look at the Chaos Lord we have now. We don't get A World Eaters champion, we got a Lord with +1 attack. This was my single biggest pet peeve with the 3.5 codex. You couldn't run non-cult marked troops. You take CSMs, given 'em mark of whatever and presto. Now you've got cult troops. The Thousand Sons are a bit unique as they are the exception. Literally, like Tzeentch is ment to be the essence of change, and the Thousand Sons are unchanging. I'll be honest, I liked it better than the whole "give a squad a mark and make them marginally better" method that we had in the 3.0 codex. Which is what we have right now, you take a squad of CSMs and give them a marginal upgrade. Believe me, I ran armies like that and they tended to suck compared to a full cult list. The notable exception was Slaanesh Marines close combat squads. Although I do kinda like the idea of the "pure" legions being able to take cult troops again. Word Bearers Thousand Sons, anybody? I've always felt that the difference between Legionnaire Chaos Marines and Renegade Space Marines. The Legionnaires are the ones from the heresy. They've had several thousand years to perfect their preferred method of war or their level of devotion to their god(s). Here is where you get the Furious Charge, the Feel No Pain, Daemonic weapons. These are the guys that the legends of horror and damnation are based on. They may or may not make use of daemonic allies/slaves as they desire. The Renegade Space marines are the squads or individuals who've become dis-enfranchised with the imperials creed, the warriors who feel their service goes unnoticed, or their acts unrewarded and their sacrificed uncounted. These are the raiders and pirates. The Warlords and the self made tyrants. These are the ones who would get the basic +1 to a selected stat by bearing an Icon or being marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Personally, I believe it should be a 3-Tier system. No Association, Marked, and then Cult (apologies for the simplicity, but I don't know another way to call it). No Association is like the normal Marines now without Icon. Marked is like the current Marines with an Icon (but don't lose it because Bob bought it). Cult then combines the Marked with Fearless, USR, and special gear access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Personally, I believe it should be a 3-Tier system. No Association, Marked, and then Cult (apologies for the simplicity, but I don't know another way to call it). No Association is like the normal Marines now without Icon. Marked is like the current Marines with an Icon (but don't lose it because Bob bought it). Cult then combines the Marked with Fearless, USR, and special gear access. Another alternative to this idea is that the champion can be upgraded to the "cult" version, giving him access to more unique wargear and/or stat bonuses. Personally I prefer this because I don't want our ACs to be mirrors of loyalist vet sergeants but rather minor warlords in their own right, more powerful but more expensive as balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I just hope they find a way to signify the elite feel of a squad of legionnaires from the heresy or a warband of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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