Toasterfree Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 for the question posed here we are not using PSAs. would be using something like an augment of some kind (WHFB reference). Warp time would be a great example of this. definitions: When can you use it? What phase, on or off the table, etc. When cant you use it? when any of the above conditions would not apply (i.e. not on the table and please cite the page on the BRB or FAQ that says you cant use a power while not on the table). please back up your response with the power spec rules if necessary, or examples from the BRB or FAQ. the reason why i am asking is for timing on psychic communion. yes i understand that it has to be at the beginning of my movement phase, but i am looking for cited times when you can and cant use a power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Warptime is used at the start of the turn (any players). When can it be used...start of turn. When can't it be used...any other time. As to your real (if I'm guessing right) questions. A model not on the board can't use psychic powers. I can't think of / find a reference exactly but as the rules are designed to be permissive, not exclusionary, it stands to reason that this is the case. So, a character with Psychic Communion can't affect his reserve roll or the rolls of anyone else until he is on the board. As all reserves are rolled before any are deployed (BRB pg 94) he can't affect anyone on the turn he arrives. Did I guess right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Warptime is used at the start of the turn (any players). When can it be used...start of turn. When can't it be used...any other time. As to your real (if I'm guessing right) questions. A model not on the board can't use psychic powers. I can't think of / find a reference exactly but as the rules are designed to be permissive, not exclusionary, it stands to reason that this is the case. So, a character with Psychic Communion can't affect his reserve roll or the rolls of anyone else until he is on the board. As all reserves are rolled before any are deployed (BRB pg 94) he can't affect anyone on the turn he arrives. Did I guess right? That is what I am looking for, but only by half. If there is nothing saying that I have to be on the board to use a power then I can use that power off the board. There is nothing saying anything about inclusivity or exclusivity. Which is why I am wanting a brb or FAQ reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexenes Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ahh.. The old " Anything not forbidden is permitted" argument. Dangerous territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytool Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 while it does not answer your question exactly it goes to prove the "cant use powers when not on the board" 1 BRB FAQ p6 c2 question no.8 " Q: If a unit is in reserve, and it has an ability that . occurs at the start of a turn can they use that ability on . the turn they arrive? (p94) . A: No. Unless specifically stated otherwise." 2 BRB FAQ p1 c2 question no.2 " Q: Can models move off the table? (p11) . A: Not unless a rule or the mission being played clearly . specify that they can. All good wargamers know that . the edge of the table is the end of the world!" 1 says no to using an ability till its on the board and 2 while more of a fluff sentence implies that unless its on the board its not part of the game thus cant affect it unless specifically noted otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 oh dear... Was hoping this wouldn't be about this little chestnut... No, you cant use a power before you're on the board, as indicated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 The power's description quite clearly states when you can use it. Psychic Communion says beginning of your movement phase, so if you want to use it you have to use it before Reserves, Regroups etc. If you don't then you can't use it. This means that if your HQ deep strikes you can't use it in the turn he Deep Strikes. In another example, Null Zone says quite clearly that it's at the start of the Librarian's shooting phase, so to be safe if you intend to use it then do so at the very beginning of the shooting phase, and not after you begin firing units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 It might help you to think on it this way: every Psychic power has a descriptor such as "start of turn" or "start of (something) phase". If a model is not on the table, it has no turns and has no phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 From the C:SM FAQ ... FAQs Q. If a Sorcerer in Terminator armour with a psychic power that works at the beginning of the turn (e.g. Warptime) is deep striking, what takes place first, teleporting in or psychic powers? Or does the owner decide on the order? A. The psychic power is used ‘at the beginning of the turn’, while the unit deep strikes in the Movement phase, so a deep striking model cannot use Warptime or similar powers in the turn they deep strike. To me it is clear. If it is not on the table it does not get to use any special ability before entering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 There's nothing saying that all my Guardsmen's lasguns aren't actually strength 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 There's nothing saying that all my Guardsmen's lasguns aren't actually strength 8. ...Other than their stat line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 there's nothing in the rules to say that my honour guard arent all Librarians either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 there's nothing in the rules to say that my honour guard arent all Librarians either... ...Other than their codex entry? I fail to see the points you all are making here with this hyperbole. o_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Its called trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Its called trolling. I was afraid of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sorry - I was going for the overexagerated point to disprove the If there is nothing saying that I have to be on the board to use a power then I can use that power off the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Allowing anything 'off board' to affect the battlefield would be horrible! Who here wants a Basilisk squadron in reserves to be able to bomb the battlefield? Yeah, that would be great... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Allowing anything 'off board' to affect the battlefield would be horrible! Who here wants a Basilisk squadron in reserves to be able to bomb the battlefield? Yeah, that would be great... :blink: I think we've jumped the shark in this thread, gentlemen. <3 Even the shark agrees, if a model's not on the table it affects nothing unless it's rules specifically say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I've seen a BA player argue this for his librarian dreadnaught's Wings of Sanguinus power when it was arriving from reserve. He even had the gall to assume it automatically passed the leadership test because it "had plenty of time to make the check successfully before it arrived". Made me laugh and laugh. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I like the little DnD 3.0 interpretation he used there. :D I've actually allowed players to use Wings of Sang (and other top-of-movement-phase powers) when moving in from Reserves. They are deploying/moving as if in BtB with the table edge (just off of the table) and are in play when they move (or possibly just before they move). That's "okay". Auto-passing the check is not. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Allowing anything 'off board' to affect the battlefield would be horrible! Who here wants a Basilisk squadron in reserves to be able to bomb the battlefield? Yeah, that would be great... :blink: Although, to be fair, that really is where they should be firing from. Not even the worst idiot would put their artillery up near the front lines, making indirect fire weapons vulnerable to the enemy. Tanks close with enemy forces to destroy them, not artillery pieces. Original question answered. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I like the little DnD 3.0 interpretation he used there. :P I've actually allowed players to use Wings of Sang (and other top-of-movement-phase powers) when moving in from Reserves. They are deploying/moving as if in BtB with the table edge (just off of the table) and are in play when they move (or possibly just before they move). That's "okay". Auto-passing the check is not. :cuss I'd make a distinction there personally - using WoS after moving on from the board edge as normla would be ok, but using WoS in order to affect a deep-strike would be out - based off the (old?) rule that a unit couldnt use a special rule to move on if there was a chance it would prevent a unit then moving onto the board (eg: the old BA supercharged engines couldnt be used on the turn you enterd the board because if you rolled a 1 you would be immobilised so not able to actually move on.........) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 haha, yea...I wouldn't allow WoS for DSing. The power says "moves as JI"...it doesn't say "deploys as", "counts as", or "is" jump infantry. :P So we are in agreement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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