Levitas Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I blame Hero, partly. But I am working on new lists without the use of long fangs and Thunder Wolves. To mostly play new units and get some variety in my games and play style. For dedicated Tournament play i'll still use them, but for now i'm working on leaving the venerable old timers at home. I'm going for an old school Ragnar and Wolf Guard in a transport core, with each WG armed differently. Couple of storm shields, set of wolf claws, frost blade and 3 combi (flamer and melta x2). With a wolf priest in for the ride and re-rolls. Around that I'm going for six Grey Hunter packs of slightly different sizes with 1 of each of the razor back loadouts,sprinkling of melta and plasma. Throw in some melta scouts and a couple of Typhoons with MMs and i'm ready to roll. I 'think' I can still handle armor. Again this is not super competitive, but hoping it still has some bite and a lot of fun. Any thoughts on life without rocket support? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutzot Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 get a wolf priest with a JP put him in a squad of 5-10 skyclaws with power weapon or power fist(your choice) and a mark of the wulfen and just look at them tearing through any unit you throw them at or get thrown at them remember do never throw them at termi they will die horribly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Put your anti-transport needs on the shoulders of some rifle dreads. Put your anti-heavy armor needs on the shoulders of melta GH packs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I never had lif on rocket support to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, all the anti armor you need is a land speeder sqaud with MM's on all of them, and a few melta weapons sprinkled here and there, which is kind of what you have done. On the other end of the spectrum, a whirlwind is a must if you want long range anti infantry. Then you have your choice of dakka preds, vindicators, or lots of havy bolter/assualt cannon razorbacks. Thats just my two cents. Not that I have whole two pennies to make any sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Space Wolf scouts and Land Speeders are perfectly capable of acting as anti tank or infantry (or in scouts case, it ties infantry up), even more effective at the anti tank thanks to melta, the only real concern is what else you do to the heavy slots, Preds are the main, other route, unless you are needing a Land Raider. That being said, 180 of autocannon goodness on a nice hull sounds fine, since I would want these guys as mobile as the rest of the army, that being said, a whirlwind could be fairly good, since melta spread through out the army sounds more then capable of handling armour. Just the main issue is that the army will lack reach beyond 24 inches, beyond Living Lightning and autocannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 just field a predator instead of the long fangs, this way you're also including the predator VS long fangs debate! ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What makes Long Fangs such great fire support is that they're cheap, pack a lot of punch (with up to 5 missiles per squad!) and the ability to split fire. Including them in an army is typically a no-brainer choice, and when optimizing army lists, tend to be the easy route for fielding a good amount of firepower with little effort or forethought. It does, however, dictate (in a way) what you do with the rest of the army, and Long Fangs in themselves have limitations as to what they can and can't do, and how durable they can be. Can Space Wolf army lists work without Long Fangs? Absolutely (in fact, my Space Wolf army/company of 120 marines has only 12 Long Fangs, only 3 of which have Missile Launchers (the rest are 5 Heavy Bolters and 2 Multi-Meltas)), but it creates a gap in your army composition (that is, the role of anti-light armor/transports, and of suppressive long-ranged firepower) that needs to be filled. There are a variety of units to do so, but you have to keep in mind that their application/style differs greatly from Long Fangs, and is certainly not the sledge-hammer unit that the Fangs are. Wolf Scouts with Meltagun/Meltabombs (you can attach WGPLs with Combi-Melta/Fist for some extra punch) Grey Hunters with Meltaguns (in Drop Pods are a nice tasty surprise) Wolf Guard with Cyclone Missiles (if you field enough Wolf Guard for Pack Leaders, using the 5th in a Drop Pod squad with Combi-Melta is a nice multi-purpose unit that can spear-head an assault or be used to grab an defend an objective) Land Speeder Tornados (MM and HF) Land Speeder Typhoons Predators Vindicators Dreadnoughts with MM in Drop Pods Dreadnoughts with dual-Autocannons I could go on and on but you get the idea. Not taking Long Fangs does force you to be more aggressive with your army, as the firepower you have to take to match up for it is either less in quantity (thus you need to maneuver to minimize the impact a reduction in firepower will do when your opponent shoots back/rushes you), or is significantly reduced in range and forces you to close with the enemy. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What makes Long Fangs such great fire support is that they're cheap, pack a lot of punch (with up to 5 missiles per squad!) and the ability to split fire. Including them in an army is typically a no-brainer choice, and when optimizing army lists, tend to be the easy route for fielding a good amount of firepower with little effort or forethought. It does, however, dictate (in a way) what you do with the rest of the army, and Long Fangs in themselves have limitations as to what they can and can't do, and how durable they can be. Can Space Wolf army lists work without Long Fangs? Absolutely (in fact, my Space Wolf army/company of 120 marines has only 12 Long Fangs, only 3 of which have Missile Launchers (the rest are 5 Heavy Bolters and 2 Multi-Meltas)), but it creates a gap in your army composition (that is, the role of anti-light armor/transports, and of suppressive long-ranged firepower) that needs to be filled. There are a variety of units to do so, but you have to keep in mind that their application/style differs greatly from Long Fangs, and is certainly not the sledge-hammer unit that the Fangs are. Wolf Scouts with Meltagun/Meltabombs (you can attach WGPLs with Combi-Melta/Fist for some extra punch) Grey Hunters with Meltaguns (in Drop Pods are a nice tasty surprise) Wolf Guard with Cyclone Missiles (if you field enough Wolf Guard for Pack Leaders, using the 5th in a Drop Pod squad with Combi-Melta is a nice multi-purpose unit that can spear-head an assault or be used to grab an defend an objective) Land Speeder Tornados (MM and HF) Land Speeder Typhoons Predators Vindicators Dreadnoughts with MM in Drop Pods Dreadnoughts with dual-Autocannons I could go on and on but you get the idea. Not taking Long Fangs does force you to be more aggressive with your army, as the firepower you have to take to match up for it is either less in quantity (thus you need to maneuver to minimize the impact a reduction in firepower will do when your opponent shoots back/rushes you), or is significantly reduced in range and forces you to close with the enemy. DV8 I really like the last paragraph DV8. My fun lists that exclude Long Fangs with missile launchers forces me to put my anti-transport and anti-armor tasks into the hands of other units. My thunderlord(s) start lookiing at armor and transports a little more closely, dreads start moving up the field a bit less cautious to get into enemy armor faster, and my dual melta GH packs tend to cruise around in my Rhinos a bit longer looking for more opportune targets to deploy 2d6 AP. As said, excluding Long Fangs is not the end of the world. You just end up stretching your other forces a little thin to pick up the slack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levitas Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Exactly, DV8 and you guys said it perfectly. I 'd like the lack of fangs to force me into a more aggressive style and get me thinking in different tactical ways, really exploring other units. The wolf dex is a great book so I dont feel hindered by not taking Thunder Wolves and Long Fangs, which I have pretty much since the book came out and done well with. It also forces me to think more about pack synergy with the Grey Hunters, and what special weapon loadout they take. I run a couple of Gundreads too, my problem with those and preds is that a lucky hit pulls them out the game. Wolf Scouts I love for being so effective, while speeders are cheap enough to take a couple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamCaboose Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I've never felt that Long Fangs were a must have in my armies. Two Vindicators, however, are. At least for me. Marine players tend to panic when they see two AP 2 pie plates on the board. I play 4 Rhinos with them so it's easy to keep them covered. Not to mention mobile fire power is a better option than static units. I have used a unit of Fangs with two vindicators to great effect though. But I tend to play a more aggressive game of flood you with Grey Hunters until you cry uncle. Caboose Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233877-there-are-no-rockets-on-fenris/#findComment-2815953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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