Shadow Nugz Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hey everyone, I have some questions regarding the DW. 1) Besides in Angels of Darkness, do power armored Dark Angels ever become "field-inducted" into the Deathwing? And do DW members actually use bone colored pa? Like if a DW member needs to accompany a tact squad in pa? 2)What are the colors of the DW in other chapters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hey everyone, I have some questions regarding the DW. 1) Besides in Angels of Darkness, do power armored Dark Angels ever become "field-inducted" into the Deathwing? And do DW members actually use bone colored pa? Like if a DW member needs to accompany a tact squad in pa? 2)What are the colors of the DW in other chapters? 1) I'm not aware of another reference for being inducted in the field - I would assume they try to avoid that. As for colors, Deathwing Marines of the 1st company always take the field in terminator armor. If they accompanied regular PA troops, we have to assume it would be in their terminator armor (as impractical as it may be in some instances). Though purely based on assumption, if they do go on a special assignment that called for it, I would guess they would don green armor and robes, which leads me to my next point. Members of the Inner Circle outside of the 1st Company are all part of the Deathwing per se, however some do wear PA (or scout armor in Naaman's case). Their PA will be the standard Dark Angels green. In older additions I believe there was bone colored PA. 2) That is open to interpretation. The current codex only shows a Disciples of Caliban terminator. If we take this as our source, than successor chapters wear their chapter colors as normal, perhaps with some variation as a denotation to their 1st company status as other Codex Chapters do. I don't believe they would wear bone color as the plains world incident technically only affected the Dark Angels Chapter's 1st Company. Prior to that, DA 1st Company wore the original black color of the legion, which may also point to the successor chapters using it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2815691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Actually the answer for the pa question is a no. The members of the DW that fight in pa (i.e. not as part of the 1st company) wear green. A good example of that is Company Masters. All members of the DW but in green armour. Even Azrael wears green. In fact it is only terminator armour that is white. White does not denote DW in the context of Circle of Knowledge but in the context of 1st Company. Back in Angels of Death the two terms were interchangeable but in 3rd ed. the distinction was introduced. A member of the 1st Company is a member of DW but not all members of DW are on active durty with the 1st. If they are not then they wear green pa. This of course does not apply to specialists (i.e. Chaplains, Apothecaries, Techmarines or librarians) Personally (and this is completely personal preference here) I think white has been overplayed. I mean people like it and it conveys the message fast but white vechicles and white Dreads? Not my taste. I like everything green but the Terminators (and Ravenwing black of course). As ever the choice is to the indivudual hobbyist obviously! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2815703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kebabyuchenko Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Actually the answer for the pa question is a no. The members of the DW that fight in pa (i.e. not as part of the 1st company) wear green. A good example of that is Company Masters. All members of the DW but in green armour. Even Azrael wears green. In fact it is only terminator armour that is white. White does not denote DW in the context of Circle of Knowledge but in the context of 1st Company. Back in Angels of Death the two terms were interchangeable but in 3rd ed. the distinction was introduced. A member of the 1st Company is a member of DW but not all members of DW are on active durty with the 1st. If they are not then they wear green pa. This of course does not apply to specialists (i.e. Chaplains, Apothecaries, Techmarines or librarians) Personally (and this is completely personal preference here) I think white has been overplayed. I mean people like it and it conveys the message fast but white vechicles and white Dreads? Not my taste. I like everything green but the Terminators (and Ravenwing black of course). As ever the choice is to the indivudual hobbyist obviously! My thoughts exactly. Kebabyuchenko xxx Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2815735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Isn't that what I said? Well that's at least what I meant, lol. I guess the shortest answer (barring Chaplains and Librarians) is power armor is always green, terminator armor is always bone white (or just white depending on the edition). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2815751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yep - that's what you said - We all agree here :) EDIT: Just to explain: I started typing before you answered but actually posted after you did. I should have started my post by saying: As EPK above said... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2815778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Nugz Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 My thoughts on successor chapters are along the lines of the Blood Angel's successor's Death Company. Any ideas? I'm thinking there is a lot of room for improv? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2816161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The codex says succesors chapters do have their first and second companies fashioned in the way DA have their Deathwing and Ravenwing... Just enough data to let you use the rules in the book with a succesor chapter. The rest is left open so you can go wherever you want with your colors IMO... So go crazy and then show pics! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2816216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 3rd edition codex tells how the AoV AoA AoR 1st company is fielded in battle sadly i don't have it with me but im pretty sure it does. As for PA green is always a safe bet. My 1st company squads have one white marine to remember the 30 the rest are black. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2816224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell's teapot Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 DeathWing do indeed fight in PA. Whether it's white or green is in the eye of the painter. There is back up for both: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=205745 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2816639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yep - that's what you said - We all agree here :) EDIT: Just to explain: I started typing before you answered but actually posted after you did. I should have started my post by saying: As EPK above said... :) Ah ha! I wasn't sure if the "actually" was towards me or the OP. Now it all makes sense. DeathWing do indeed fight in PA. Whether it's white or green is in the eye of the painter. There is back up for both: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=205745 That's old school though. The newest codex notes that they are fielded exclusively in TDA. As a personal preference, I find that ridiculous and too rigid for the elite 1st company. I'd rather it be that most of them are fielded in TDA but they use PA if the need arises. But of course they have the Ravenwing who wear PA to do the scouting for them... yet they never get off their bikes, ever. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2816667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viray Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Actually, it does seem to make sense that only the Terminator Armor of the 1st Company would be bone white. The 1st Company bears white because of the feat the earlier Deathwing performed: saving the Dark Angels' recruiting world from a Genestealer invasion. If the story Deathwing is to be believed, which it should since it is the story that introduced the idea of the new color scheme if I recall correctly, then it was only the Tactical Dreadnought Armor of the Dark Angels that were supposed to be repainted in memory of the Company's victory. Changing the entire heraldry of the Deathwing wasn't really touched upon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 The people that claim that white pa is canonical usually base their argument on pictures of miniatures in old WDs and of course the cover of Dark Millenium, the 2nd ed. expansion. However I tend to attribute them to artistic licence as 2nd ed onwards (and probably before that too - I can't recall now) there was no *written* evidence that refers to white pa. As Viray mentions above, the reason for white armour relates to Deathwing as in 1st Company Termies. It is a tribute to warriors that fought against Tyranids (nothing to do with the Fallen) and is a martial recognition - not some mystical Deathwing rite (as in Deathwing the Circle). In a way white goes to the armour - not the wearer! So extending the white to everything Deathwing is, in my view, a bit of a stretch and not canonical. Again beutiful painted miniatures are always welcome... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell's teapot Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 How does a picture in a GW published book/magazine not meet the definition of canon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 How does a picture in a GW published book/magazine not meet the definition of canon? As I remember, anything before 3rd Ed isn't officially classed as canon. I love the Fluff and things like descriptions of the Emperor/Imperial faith/etc, but tend to ignore the models and paint schemes since Games Workshop were still sort of figuring it out. But since people are on this topic anyway... Looking in my 2nd Ed rulebook, there is: A Company Master with green armour, and white/cream shoulder pads. A Company master with white/cream shoulder pads, greaves, and (I think) forearm guards. What I think is a very early terminator, with white armour and green should trims. I would post a photo, but I think per the forum rules I'm not allowed. Also, did anyone else realize that these have been around since the 2nd Ed...? EDIT: Looking at the Forum rules, and GW's, I think I actually can post a photo, provided it isn't a page-long post full of them. I'll get one up later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 @ Russell's Teapot: Well that's just it. All (GW) depictions of white pa for DAs come from at time where the DAs background was much more sketchy and loose. Once GW decided to codify it in a Codex (namely the "Angels of Death" onwards) there was no mention in text that this (white pa) applies. On the contrary it is always mentioned that it's a Terminator armour characteristic alone. That's why I beleive that the depiction on Dark Millenium cover was more of an "artisitc licence" thing rather than a hard statement of lore. In fact back then Captains were much more "blinked" compared to the later, more auster, interpertations... but I digress. In any case my view is (based on evey DAs codex ever printed and on finding nothing credible to counter it since '94 was it?) that only DW terminators should be white lore-wise(oh and Ven. Dreads are white too according the current dex :(!). In fact back then the terms Deathwing and 1st Company were interchangable - and since the latter was always fighting in terminator armour I don't see how one Deathwing Marine would appear in pa. Even back then there was a bit of conflicting messages (funnily I don't recall caring much about it then - simpler times :)). A picture in WD of the late 80s or early '90s can't really overshadow the fact that there was never any DA text that mentioned or even hinted that power armoured Deathwing members should/would wear white... Having said that I've seen some amazing paint jobs of white LRs and even a white Chaplain(!) that made me instantly forget all my concerns of what is canon or not and moved to the "who cares?" territory. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not to mention - the Armies of the Imperium boxed set (which also had the same DA hero on the cover in a different pose) came before the Dark Meillenium cover, BUT the Armies of the Imperium box is the also first major printed source to introduce us to an ALL TERMIE 1st company. A DA army 1st co Card didn't have any veterans, it was an all Termie formation, and no other 1st cos were like this. Finally there is NO SUCH THING as Canon in the realm of GW - there is no reason not to sugegst a company master had his own perosnal heraldry 9which is used in lieu of company markings in the DA) painted onto his armour in some fashion, even representing the colours of teh Deathwing somehow... you will ntice the armour is not completely bone-white. Now given plains world happened barely 1000 years before the current timeline in 40K (as both the Hive mind and teh Hive fleets were known about as were genestealers) there are 9K yrs when teh DA DW were blak armoured.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 As others have said, it's not 'canon', but still might be relevant to the conversation. I think that... thing... in the middle of the last picture is supposed to be a Deathwing terminator. However the label states that it's 'Ultramarine and Blood Angel Space Marines...' so I may be mistaken, though I can't see what else it could be. Copyright Games workshop. No offense or infringement of copyright is intended by the usage of these pictures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2817765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think that... thing... in the middle of the last picture is supposed to be a Deathwing terminator. However the label states that it's 'Ultramarine and Blood Angel Space Marines...' so I may be mistaken, though I can't see what else it could be. I believe it's a "tinboy." Back before 2nd edition, Orks could field them. They were robots, made to look like Space Marines (either out of mockery or as an acknowledgement that the Astartes were tough as nails). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2818148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I believe it's a "tinboy." Back before 2nd edition, Orks could field them. They were robots, made to look like Space Marines. Ahh. How on earth did orks do that good a paint job? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2818456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Very careful finger painting watched over by their day-care teacher? :P I think that anyone in the Inner Circle could really paint their heraldry any way they want, but the predominant color of most of their armor surfaces will probably be Dark Angels green. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2818477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I am pretty sure I have seen some old art showing DA Terminators in Dark Green armor too, meaning the whole Deathwing episode would have taken place after the change to the green armor. Based on the little evidence that there is, the Successor Chapter's Terminators would be in standard Successor Chapter colors. The DA Inner Circle represent the Chapter as a whole and so would wear standard Chapter colored TDA. Unfortunately, we only see Chaplains and Librarians in TDA, so it is black or blue respectively, and their shoulder pads showing the Chapter Iconography are Dark Green with the white unbroken sword and wings Chapter Symbol, which could be adorned with a skull for the Chaplain or with a horned skull and/or book for the Librarian. Hopefully next time around we'll get some more attention with regard to Unforgiven's color usage and heraldry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2818522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I am pretty sure I have seen some old art showing DA Terminators in Dark Green armor too, meaning the whole Deathwing episode would have taken place after the change to the green armor. The problem with this is that the DW story from Space Hulk actually says that they wore black terminator armor. However, I don't deny the move to green came very early before the Plains World Incident, and if the Horus Heresy books are to be taken as fluff of any kind, the shift possibly started as early as then (with Caliban Dark Angels taking a green shoulder pad at first). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2818613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I never liked that green shoulder pad thing. "Look. We are different than you are." Not so great a thing for homogenizing a Legion. A pretty bad idea, excepting on the shoulder pad of the one captain that is mentioned, as captains make their own heraldry and so in that case it would be suitable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/233879-dw-questions/#findComment-2819354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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