Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Link: GW website Of note, to me: the Ork KFF gives a 4+ cover save to vehicles within 6" Deffrollaz cannot be destroyed as they are not a weapon the Chainfist on an Ironclad is a DCCW with 2d6 for pen, and so strikes at i4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hmmm, a vehicle's wings are part of the hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 @Wilhelm: that's how it's always been for the Orks. Surprised you find it as new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 @Wilhelm: that's how it's always been for the Orks. Surprised you find it as new? No, not new to me ;) but due to the confusion it can create. It is a 5+ for men, but a 4+ for vehicles, which is inconsistent. It was played as 4+ around here, but how does a 5+ become a 4+, if you catch my drift. This gets me thinking about Jeffersonian's idea about Astral aim. If the intent wins out over strictness, then I cannot see GW supporting his view. I know it is cleaner to argue RAW [if that is possible from the evidence] but sometimes I think we get carried away.... :P +++ In the latest WD, they had some new scenarios for Cities of Death [i wish it was still called Cityfight, easier] and new CoD scenarios and stratagems. I hope WD continues in this old 'new' vein.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 My biggest note was that the Ork's Waagh! now has to be declared at the start of the shooting phase, not just in it. Stops them from "testing the waters" with some shooting before throwing the Waaagh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well it's simple then I guess. KFF: '...gives all units within 6" of the Mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets." Just a case of poor writing. "...gives all non-vehicle units" and/or "Vehicles within 6" are instead..." would have been perfect, but of course GW always leave out the one word that would clearly explain...anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 My biggest note was that the Ork's Waagh! now has to be declared at the start of the shooting phase, not just in it. Stops them from "testing the waters" with some shooting before throwing the Waaagh! I think that is the right ruling. Wolf standards need to be popped at the appropriate time, etc. So that is a big 'nerf' [not really, just straightening things out] and changes the powa! level the Waagh! gives. +++ Did anyone notice you can attach a Warboss on bike to Snikrot's kommandos, and then use the special rules for deployment and come on from any table edge.... ;) Having that is going to mess up things that use long range shooting units, so basically everyone bar Deldar. An s10 Warboss will mess up any stationary vehicle pretty consistently, and even LR and Monoliths will be made nervous. Broadsides and Long fangs will evaporate. They didn't allow ThunderLords to do that with WolfScouts, so why the change....? A Warboss on bike with PK is 125 pts.... He has an 18" assault range and a 24" flat-out, which was one thing that stops Wolf Scouts from being totally awkward to deal with. Even if you had a few Preds, Missile Devs, etc. in the back field, are they actually going to do enough wounds to kill him with one turns shooting? Unlikely. I can see him getting two units chalked up before he goes down, pretty reliably. Oh deary do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> reserves and deepstrike are different animals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> reserves and deepstrike are different animals Yeah, in that case the FAQ ruling of Q: What happens when a unit arrives from reserves but is unable to completely move onto the board? (p94)A: The unit is destroyed and removed from play. comes into play and the unit will probablty be destroyed. I realize this FAQ is "soft rulings" and only intended for clarifications of the base Warhammer 40,000 game but why didn't anyone ask the FAQ author how he rationalizes his proclamation in the light that The Iron Saint has the Flank March strategic asset and can't use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 A Warboss on bike with PK is 125 pts....He has an 18" assault range and a 24" flat-out, which was one thing that stops Wolf Scouts from being totally awkward to deal with. Even if you had a few Preds, Missile Devs, etc. in the back field, are they actually going to do enough wounds to kill him with one turns shooting? Unlikely. I can see him getting two units chalked up before he goes down, pretty reliably. Oh deary do. Not quite, as I imagine the Kommandos are infantry units that can only move 6"? If so, then the BRB FAQ clearly states that IC attached to units coming in from Reserve cannot split from the unit until the turn after, which means the Warboss can only assault up to 12" from the table edge as he has to move at the slowest speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. That's why I used the Iron Saint as my example. It gets Flank March from its driver, it has side sponsons (which I believe makes it more than 6" wide) and has no way of removing them, and therefore couldn't be placed on the table sideways and not have some part of it hanging over the edge of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. That's why I used the Iron Saint as my example. It gets Flank March from its driver, it has side sponsons (which I believe makes it more than 6" wide) and has no way of removing them, and therefore couldn't be placed on the table sideways and not have some part of it hanging over the edge of the table. Sponson do not count, if I recall correctly. So no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ...but how does a 5+ become a 4+, if you catch my drift. They actually get both. Units in range get a 5+. Also vehicles count as obscured which when undefined defaults to 4+. This only really matters in the case of squadrons where some squadron vehicles are outside of 6" where they will get the 5+ but some will also get the 4+. Did anyone notice you can attach a Warboss on bike to Snikrot's kommandos, and then use the special rules for deployment and come on from any table edge.... They didn't allow ThunderLords to do that with WolfScouts, so why the change....? Well they are different rules. Snikrot is just in reserves with his unit not going into his special rule by default. The warboss is also unable to leave the unit when they arrive if I am not mistaken so putting him on a bike isnt terribly useful. Lords cant but WolfGuard can no? PS: it also stops Gazghul from popping his waaagh in his opponents turn for the 2++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. That's why I used the Iron Saint as my example. It gets Flank March from its driver, it has side sponsons (which I believe makes it more than 6" wide) and has no way of removing them, and therefore couldn't be placed on the table sideways and not have some part of it hanging over the edge of the table. Sponson do not count, if I recall correctly. So no problem. Which would be nice and all except see the other +OR+ thread debating if a vehicle can be fired upon if only the sponson is visible. You can't have the sponsons "not count" during the movement phase, and "count" during the shooting phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. That's why I used the Iron Saint as my example. It gets Flank March from its driver, it has side sponsons (which I believe makes it more than 6" wide) and has no way of removing them, and therefore couldn't be placed on the table sideways and not have some part of it hanging over the edge of the table. Sponson do not count, if I recall correctly. So no problem. Which would be nice and all except see the other +OR+ thread debating if a vehicle can be fired upon if only the sponson is visible. You can't have the sponsons "not count" during the movement phase, and "count" during the shooting phase. Actually...IIRC, sponsons DO count on the movement phase (ie, if you can't fit through a gap because of sponsons, the tank can't go through) and don't when being designated as a target (as you need to measure to the hull). Same thing when coming in from reserves: ie a LR (over 15 cm length of the model) can't enter the board "skimming" and enf on its side so to say. You HAVE to move at cruising speed and then pivot if you want, keeping the model totally ON the board... including sponsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And then there is that if you are not fully on the table coming in from deepstrike, then you role on the deepstrike mishap table. Pretty much pisses on the Spearhead formation using super heavy vehicles and having them come in from reserve. They now cant even come in and turn sideways. A track piece will hang off and they must roll. Stupid GW> A Baneblade is less than 6 inches wide. That's why I used the Iron Saint as my example. It gets Flank March from its driver, it has side sponsons (which I believe makes it more than 6" wide) and has no way of removing them, and therefore couldn't be placed on the table sideways and not have some part of it hanging over the edge of the table. Sponson do not count, if I recall correctly. So no problem. Which would be nice and all except see the other +OR+ thread debating if a vehicle can be fired upon if only the sponson is visible. You can't have the sponsons "not count" during the movement phase, and "count" during the shooting phase. Actually...IIRC, sponsons DO count on the movement phase (ie, if you can't fit through a gap because of sponsons, the tank can't go through) and don't when being designated as a target (as you need to measure to the hull). Same thing when coming in from reserves: ie a LR (over 15 cm length of the model) can't enter the board "skimming" and enf on its side so to say. You HAVE to move at cruising speed and then pivot if you want, keeping the model totally ON the board... including sponsons. Exactly, thus you can't legally move The Iron Saint on to the table from Reserve using Flank March, which it is given by its rules, without it being destroyed because it can not get fully onto the table. The BRB FAQ just broke Apocalypse - :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 On a sidenote, the Monolith can't go above combat speed... so they ruled "mmmm, ok, then you just move him on the table, he counts as moving combat speed but don't do it again" xD I guess it'd be the same with the baneblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 On a sidenote, the Monolith can't go above combat speed... so they ruled "mmmm, ok, then you just move him on the table, he counts as moving combat speed but don't do it again" xD I guess it'd be the same with the baneblade. In that case they arent rulling anything really they are just ignoring his special rule that prevents him from moving. Which is in the core rules. They just did it silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It goes without saying (I hope) that if anybody ever tries to claim such a vehicle is auto-destroyed just because Dawn of War was rolled is not the kind of person people like to play against. Just stick it on the table and go with it. If ever there was evidence that this rule set was not constructed to hold up to harsh, legal-style scrutiny, this is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 PS: it also stops Gazghul from popping his waaagh in his opponents turn for the 2++. Pretty sure Ghazkulls FAQ says that he can call his WAAGH at any time. (see the listings for Prophet of the Waagh) As for SW scouts Vs Snikrot, Snikrot is a special character, so only one unit can do this VS SW scouts being able to be 3 separate units. Furthermore Thunderlords cannot join anything but Fenrisian wolves/TWC anyway (due to rules in teh SW codex) it would only be possible for non TW lords if it was allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ORK FAQ Amendments "Page 58 – Prophet of the Waaagh!, first paragraph Change the second sentence to “Ghazghkull’s Waaagh! can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first game turn.”" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Good catch. I missed that one. Makes it even better cause he can pop it just after being assault or just before making saves. Wait and see how the assault goes and so forth. Bait out the Pfist attacks onto himself then save the heck outta them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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