rusty1109 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi all, Just been thinking about how to make my tactical terminators as nasty as possible and I'm thinking of running them as follows 10 Tactical Terminators 2 Cyclone Missile launchers Standard Chaplain (Possibly in terminator armour) Pedro Kantor How do we think this unit would do? I might run it in a 2000 point game for a laugh, I like the idea of Pedro because he makes the squad very nasty indeed in close combat while still making them a medium range ranged powerhouse! Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Tactica: Tactical Terminators Well worth a read, created by Myst who runs Tactical Terminators a lot successfully. Basically, you're doing well, just add in a couple of chainfists, and then swap your characters for either a Terminator Libby with SS, Null Zone and Vortex or Gate, or Lysander. The former is cheap, has a psychic hood, Null Zone, and either a nasty psychic shooting power or improved mobility. The latter brings Stubborn, fortified ruins (which can be used by others) and Bolter Drill for all those storm bolters you have. He is also nasty in combat, and like the Libby can soak up wounds, only he does it better. You don't really need Pedro to make them better in combat, the same with Cassius. They each (except for the Sergeant) will have 3 power fist attacks each on the charge that's nasty. Just keep them away from power weapons and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I strongly advise running them in a list with Teleport Homers (or Locator Beacons) and the aforementioned GoI Librarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This really gets me thinking that Templar Dakkanators are worth a try. 2 CML for even a 5 man squad. Tank hunters, for s9 kraks and s5 bolters - meaning even Rhinos can be glanced to death, and Raiders can be really hammered by them. Of course with AAC vow, giving re-rolls to hit The only things I am worried about are >i1 power weapons and massed small arms fire. One Termie dies as fast as two Marines to small arms fire, yet costs more. How do you stop that torrenting from happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 This really gets me thinking that Templar Dakkanators are worth a try. 2 CML for even a 5 man squad. Tank hunters, for s9 kraks and s5 bolters - meaning even Rhinos can be glanced to death, and Raiders can be really hammered by them. Of course with AAC vow, giving re-rolls to hit The only things I am worried about are >i1 power weapons and massed small arms fire. One Termie dies as fast as two Marines to small arms fire, yet costs more. How do you stop that torrenting from happening? Oh yeah... this would be wicked. Regarding small arms fire, you should not be facing too much if you are operating at "range=krak missile". Also, you've got 5 guys... of which only 2 matter... so there are a few ablative wounds there and that's not even counting independent character wounds. At the end of the day, if someone is trying to torrent these guys you are usually winning because they aren't going after your scoring units. Once the game starts it matters not how much everything costs... only whether it can claim an objective or give an easy kill point (case depending). Torrent fire going at krak missile termies is not helping your opponent win either of these. Regarding close combat. Again, if you see the enemy close combat unit coming, you should strive to operate at "range=krak missile" instead of "range=0". People fear the high initiative power weapons all the time... but the reality is that most of these threats are really not that prevalent. I mean, I see a unit that truly scares my terminators maybe once every 3 games, and that's when it's time to play "my army vs your army" not "my unit vs your unit". In these cases, I look to see how my opponent will try and get into combat with my termies, and then I try to stop it. If they are in transports, I try to shoot them down. If this isn't going to happen, I bubble wrap with rhinos, vindicators, tactical squads, dreadnaughts, etc... There is no reason that I should ever let my tactical terminators get engaged in close combat by a unit that they don't get a chance to fire at first. @OP, I see DarkGuard already sent you the link to my terminator article. Yeah, I love my 10x tactical Terminators + Indepedent Character(s) units. I would suggest a chainfist or two... but that's all in the article. Sounds like you have a good squad there. The main problem you are going to encounter is that Pedro is too easy to kill. Best bet is to take some sternguard or something else in a rhino and have him about 6-8" behind the terminators. That way, you'll get the +1 attack and not have to put him at risk. I kind of like chaplains with tactical terminators, but Cassius might be stronger for adding some ablative wounds. Lysander is the best with his 3++ and EW, but Pedro, libby, chaplain, are all good options. I can't really support Vulkan or Captain/Chapter Master... since they don't add anything to help out the termies. -Myst EDIT: Because I'm tired and mispelled a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty1109 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Sorry it was late and I mistyped, Meant to say that I wa splanning Lysander not Pedro as well as a chaplain, It does look like an awesome unit to have 'on side' but it does feel like a lot of points sunk into something which is basically a mobile counter to nasties heading towards my gunline! Also I'm not a fan of deep strike.... at all! The chance of something going wrong is always there and they will most likely get shot up or assaulted, how do you guys make gate of infinity or deep strike work for your tacticals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Keep in mind that a chaplain is already 3+/4++. Giving him terminator armor only increases one save and takes away his frag grenades and sweeping advance ability (the latter of which he can't do with a squad of teminators anyway). However, the TDA Chaplain model looks awesome, so there is that. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm building a 10 man tactical terminator squad for regulard use as well. I run a very tactically focus army, reactionary I suppose and they really fit the bill, add some long ranged durable firepower and some CC countering as well. My list has tactical squads, lots of dreadsd and a MotF, so I have plenty of mid range support and can even camp them in 3+ cover. I've only played 1 game with a 5 man version but 3 of the remaining squad took out a squad of berserks of 7 plus a fist in 2 combats. I was lucky, but I secured my flank! No adding special characters yet but in big games I've been thinking about adding in Calgar to really beef them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Sorry it was late and I mistyped, Meant to say that I wa splanning Lysander not Pedro as well as a chaplain, It does look like an awesome unit to have 'on side' but it does feel like a lot of points sunk into something which is basically a mobile counter to nasties heading towards my gunline! Also I'm not a fan of deep strike.... at all! The chance of something going wrong is always there and they will most likely get shot up or assaulted, how do you guys make gate of infinity or deep strike work for your tacticals? I use 10x Terminator and Lysander fairly often (taking them to a tournament on Saturday actually) and I too am not a fan of deepstriking. Lysander is plenty... you probably don't need the chaplain. I would NOT deepstrike unless you have to. There is nothing wrong with lining up 24" away from the enemy and advancing 6" per turn firing missiles. 11 terminator models create one heck of a footprint, and they are going to control a lot of space that the rest of your army can exploit. Don't worry about the enemy staying back. In a normal game you get to walk 6" per turn for at least 5 turns. That means you get about 30" of movement to get where you need to be by turn 5, and that doesn't count running or consolidation moves. I have never had a problem getting where I need to be with this brutal squad. And.... Lysander can split off if the right situation comes up. One thing to consider is that Lysander gets to bolster a ruin, so this squad gives you the chance to combat squad if you want. You can put the "devestator" half with 4 missiles into a 3++ ruin and advance with Lysander and 5 buddies. I usually don't do this because I like to have a big death star, but against IG or TAU or someone without any close combat units it might be really good. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Also I'm not a fan of deep strike.... at all! The chance of something going wrong is always there and they will most likely get shot up or assaulted, how do you guys make gate of infinity or deep strike work for your tacticals? I feel the same way...unless you're spamming locator beacons/teleport homers, in which case DS gets awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Also I'm not a fan of deep strike.... at all! The chance of something going wrong is always there and they will most likely get shot up or assaulted, how do you guys make gate of infinity or deep strike work for your tacticals? I feel the same way...unless you're spamming locator beacons/teleport homers, in which case DS gets awesome. Deep Strikers & Homers/Locators are subject to a dual economy of scale - the more Deep Strikers you have, the better value are Homers, and vice versa. The end result of which is of course the entirely Deep Struck army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Melta Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 They work with Vanguard as well, correct, the homers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 They work with Vanguard as well, correct, the homers? Locator Beacons do, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Wait: what is meant by "tactical Terminators"? I don't get the term, please could someone explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Wait: what is meant by "tactical Terminators"? I don't get the term, please could someone explain. Sure. Terminators with stormbolter/power fist...the non-Hammernator elites choice in termie armor for the vanilla Codex. :) BA also have this unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm tempted to jump on the Terminator band-wagon! (oh the irony of referring to a little appreciated unit as band-wagoning!) I fancy using 6 with an Assault Cannon and 2x Chainfists to march alongside Calgar. The plan is for them to own the centre of the table, supporting Tactical Marines in their Transports and Dreadnoughts etc. On and Typhoons which reek of awesome! Calgar can eat a couple low AP shots early in the game, and would you really want to charge into them with a beast like him inside? Oh and AP2 Bolters with re-rolls to wound are nasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Oh, now I get the Tactical Terminators... I love 10 (with Heavy flamer and assault cannon) + a chaplain deep striking, and a tactical squad in rhino with Teleport Homer so they land where I wan them. Last time I used them they took out Ghazgull, 5 lootaz+mek, a Battlewagon, A Looted Wagon, lots of 'ard Boyz, lots of normally boyz, and some other stuff. I only lost 2! Orks suck vs that unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I only use a 5 man squad with an AC and 2 Chainfists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm tempted to jump on the Terminator band-wagon! (oh the irony of referring to a little appreciated unit as band-wagoning!) I fancy using 6 with an Assault Cannon and 2x Chainfists to march alongside Calgar. The plan is for them to own the centre of the table, supporting Tactical Marines in their Transports and Dreadnoughts etc. On and Typhoons which reek of awesome! Calgar can eat a couple low AP shots early in the game, and would you really want to charge into them with a beast like him inside? Oh and AP2 Bolters with re-rolls to wound are nasty! Perhaps the Honour Guard are a good pairing for the Termies? The Terms get beaten by quick power weapons, and the HG have that to scare Sang Guard away. Which does leave the problem of i6 Halberds but hey, I can't think of everything :P Though perhaps Dreads with DCCW are the trump to GK squads? B) Is Calgar good bang for buck like Daemon Princes and ThunderLords, or is he like most ICs, less punchy than the equivalent amount of soldiers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Perhaps the Honour Guard are a good pairing for the Termies?The Terms get beaten by quick power weapons, and the HG have that to scare Sang Guard away. Which does leave the problem of i6 Halberds but hey, I can't think of everything :P Though perhaps Dreads with DCCW are the trump to GK squads? ^_^ Is Calgar good bang for buck like Daemon Princes and ThunderLords, or is he like most ICs, less punchy than the equivalent amount of soldiers? Dreads get wrecked by S10 thunder hammers ;). If Termies pair well with Honour Guard it wouldn't be because of combat prowess, but shooting prowess. That's why Sternguard and Honour Guard work so well :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is Calgar good bang for buck like Daemon Princes and ThunderLords, or is he like most ICs, less punchy than the equivalent amount of soldiers? Calgar is a beast. 4 base attacks, 5 with the off-hand power fist, six on the charge, 3 (or 4? I can't recall) wounds, 4++ and Eternal Warrior. He re-rolls his wounds and his entire force can decide whether it wishes to pass or fail any morale check it's called upon to take. He can take on units by himself and is easily a toe-to-toe match for Mephiston (I would not pit my Meph against Marneus). He's a beast. Also, AP2 storm bolters are nice. I really miss using that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is Calgar good bang for buck like Daemon Princes and ThunderLords, or is he like most ICs, less punchy than the equivalent amount of soldiers? Calgar is a beast. 4 base attacks, 5 with the off-hand power fist, six on the charge, 3 (or 4? I can't recall) wounds, 4++ and Eternal Warrior. He re-rolls his wounds and his entire force can decide whether it wishes to pass or fail any morale check it's called upon to take. He can take on units by himself and is easily a toe-to-toe match for Mephiston (I would not pit my Meph against Marneus). He's a beast. Also, AP2 storm bolters are nice. I really miss using that model. 4 wounds. Calgar's biggest weakness is the 4++ and the fact that he ONLY has S8 attacks. Lysander is cheaper and has S10 attacks with 3++ save. It feels like they really overpriced the ability to pass or fail morale checks. He should be priced about the same as Lysander... as it is now there feels like no reason to play with Calgar over Lysander. Sucks too, since I'm an ultramarine player and I can only justify taking Calgor or Sicarius in "fun" armies because Vulkan and Lysander are so much better. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm tempted to jump on the Terminator band-wagon! (oh the irony of referring to a little appreciated unit as band-wagoning!) I fancy using 6 with an Assault Cannon and 2x Chainfists to march alongside Calgar. The plan is for them to own the centre of the table, supporting Tactical Marines in their Transports and Dreadnoughts etc. On and Typhoons which reek of awesome! Calgar can eat a couple low AP shots early in the game, and would you really want to charge into them with a beast like him inside? Oh and AP2 Bolters with re-rolls to wound are nasty! Perhaps the Honour Guard are a good pairing for the Termies? The Terms get beaten by quick power weapons, and the HG have that to scare Sang Guard away. Which does leave the problem of i6 Halberds but hey, I can't think of everything :P Though perhaps Dreads with DCCW are the trump to GK squads? :( Is Calgar good bang for buck like Daemon Princes and ThunderLords, or is he like most ICs, less punchy than the equivalent amount of soldiers? I like Calgar but I don't fancy him being in an army with more than a single expensive unit to accompany him. Would just make the army that little bit too small. So I would probably NOT use Honour Guard with Terminators and Calgar. I would have Dreads in the list to tie up GK squads where possible, but S10 Thunder Hammers are a worry. But then killy a squad of my Terminators would likely leave Calgar around to kill a bunch of Paladins afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfox1990 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Tim. I suggest spending as many points as possible pointlessly on this unit and we'll have a game some time ? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Tim. I suggest spending as many points as possible pointlessly on this unit and we'll have a game some time ? :( You won't be laughing, man, when ten storm-bolter wielding 2+ save doods are walking into your base, shooting your guys. Sure, 5++ seems like it's not as good as 3++, but when they are a LOT of them, you only have so much plasma. Do you really want to rush in with that power fist when they have 9 more than you do? @_@ Terminators get a bad rap because people seldom take enough of them. You want ten. Those storm bolters and CMLs will do you proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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