Nostraman

[Inquisitor Engel]

Here's a question for you all.

 

What language is the root for Nostraman, the language the Night Lords speak, other than gothic.

 

There's seems to be no consistency to the names of Heresy-era Night Lords across sources, or even within the same source. This is usually a pretty decent way to tell. Some names are vaguely Asian (Equerry Tsang) some more Germanic (Vandred, Krieg Acerbus), some Roman-ish (Malcharion) and some just cool and evil sounding (Talos, Sahaal)

 

So what is the language root for the Nostraman dialect?

[Noctus Cornix]

Nostramon is officially rooted from High Gothic (Latin) plain and simple. It's officially laid out in Soul Hunter.

 

The reason why you're having an issue with this, and why this may confuse others, is because you forget that all of those characters were created by completely different people.

 

Tsang was created by Graham McNeill in the Dark King

 

Sahaal and Acerbus were created by Simon Spurrier

 

and finally

 

Talos and Malcharion were created by Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

 

The fact is, and I'm not trying to bash anyone for this, some authors don't point much thought or depth into character names. They don't put prospect in the culture of the character and create the name accordingly, they just pick whatever sound's cool. Aaron would be the only one who took interest in the culture and language (he basically created the language, after all)

[narrativium]

The fact is, and I'm not trying to bash anyone for this, some authors don't point much thought or depth into character names. They don't put prospect in the culture of the character and create the name accordingly, they just pick whatever sound's cool. Aaron would be the only one who took interest in the culture and language (he basically created the language, after all)

I think it's simpler to just assume they all had different ideas as to what the Night Lord culture should be, and basing it on just one historical culture was too simple. They want the Legions to have some greater complexity than just be X in Space.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Nostramon is officially rooted from High Gothic (Latin) plain and simple. It's officially laid out in Soul Hunter.

 

Indeed, but it's SO different that Octavia is unable to even start to understand it on a basic level until she's taught. One of the hallmarks of High Gothic is that anyone can understand different dialects of it, with a little effort.

 

The reason why you're having an issue with this, and why this may confuse others, is because you forget that all of those characters were created by completely different people.

 

I'm aware of that, and since the Night Lords didn't have any sort of REAL background short of 5 years ago, there wasn't a lot to go on.

 

The fact is, and I'm not trying to bash anyone for this, some authors don't point much thought or depth into character names. They don't put prospect in the culture of the character and create the name accordingly, they just pick whatever sound's cool. Aaron would be the only one who took interest in the culture and language (he basically created the language, after all)

 

There must be some language base behind it, somewhere though. French, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian and Italian are all based on Latin, but they're hardly so similar they can all talk to one another without effort. Please don't say Nostraman is based on a Romance language. Romance languages are not scary. >_>

[Trel]

Maybe she can understand the words OK, but there is so much nuance and subtlety that any meaning is completely obfuscated to a speaker of Terran Gothic.

 

From the small fragments in the books, it doesn't look to me that there is any language on Earth that Nostraman is based off of. If anything, the sounds within it looked deliberately chosen to sound as sibilant as possible. (Only Tolkien would actually create a fully-fleshed language for a fictional work.)

 

I'm sure I'll be corrected, but I'm sure what Dembski-Bowden did for Nostraman is what most authors do: pick enough small phrases and words to where it seems like there's an actual language going on, then sprinkle them in the text for flavor.

[Brother Nihm]

I'm aware of that, and since the Night Lords didn't have any sort of REAL background short of 5 years ago, there wasn't a lot to go on.

That is not true. There are quite a few short-stories, Lord of the Night, the entire 2nd ed. Codex which fleshed them out rather nicely.

[Inquisitor Engel]

I'm aware of that, and since the Night Lords didn't have any sort of REAL background short of 5 years ago, there wasn't a lot to go on.

That is not true. There are quite a few short-stories, Lord of the Night, the entire 2nd ed. Codex which fleshed them out rather nicely.

 

Lord of the Night was more than five years ago wasn't it.. Wow, time does fly!

 

I'm not familiar with the stories in the 2nd Ed Codex, as at the time I was purely a loyalist, ;)

[Commissar Joe]

Nostramon is officially rooted from High Gothic (Latin) plain and simple. It's officially laid out in Soul Hunter.

 

Indeed, but it's SO different that Octavia is unable to even start to understand it on a basic level until she's taught. One of the hallmarks of High Gothic is that anyone can understand different dialects of it, with a little effort.

 

 

I don't think that's strictly true. As I understand it the majority of the Imperium speaks Low Gothic and High Gothic is the more obscure language used by elites and member of the Imperial administration. Octavia tells Septiums to speak Gothic to her but is it made clear whether she means High or Low Gothic? But that's a side issue. :(

 

If the Night Lords are speaking Nostraman as it was spoken during the Heresy (10,000 years ago) and Nostraman branched from gothic during the Age Of Strife (which went for several thousand years, if I'm correct?) then it's no surprise that Octavia doesn't understand it. If that's all true then Nostraman would have developed (or degenerated) separately from Gothic (High or Low) for several thousand years before being reunited with the Imperium and Gothic has now developed (or maybe it's stagnated, 40k being 40k) for 10,000 years past that point.

 

Any of that make sense? Lol

[Inquisitor Engel]

Any of that make sense? Lol

 

Perfect sense. It's been less than a 100 years for the 10th Company though, they are most certainly speaking an alien tongue to Octavia. It'd only had exposure to 'true' Gothic (in either form) for really, 300 years total at this point.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The books make a point of stating that Nostraman was incredibly divergent from Gothic, and that Octavia had almost no luck whatsoever in trying to find similarities between the two. Whatever roots they may have shared originally had long degenerated into obscurity.

[Brother Nihm]

I'm aware of that, and since the Night Lords didn't have any sort of REAL background short of 5 years ago, there wasn't a lot to go on.

That is not true. There are quite a few short-stories, Lord of the Night, the entire 2nd ed. Codex which fleshed them out rather nicely.

 

Lord of the Night was more than five years ago wasn't it.. Wow, time does fly!

That it does, my little blue men (who weren't Night Lords back then - but painted similarly when I started in the early days of RT) are coming up on their 21 year birthday this year, yet it feels like it was but a few years ago. :P

 

If the Night Lords are speaking Nostraman as it was spoken during the Heresy (10,000 years ago) and Nostraman branched from gothic during the Age Of Strife (which went for several thousand years, if I'm correct?) then it's no surprise that Octavia doesn't understand it. If that's all true then Nostraman would have developed (or degenerated) separately from Gothic (High or Low) for several thousand years before being reunited with the Imperium and Gothic has now developed (or maybe it's stagnated, 40k being 40k) for 10,000 years past that point.

 

Any of that make sense? Lol

It makes perfect sense to me. One also have to assume that given so few native speakers remain, the passing of millennia also had an effect. I doubt any surviving Nostramans were scholars.

On the other hand, the sons of Curze do strike me as people who would cling on to their heritage vehemently - and space marines do have eideitic memory.

 

*ponders*

[Brother Kirus]

Not sure about spoken language but if I am not mistaken A D-B mentioned somewhere that written language is based on Hindu (hope I spelled it correctly)… I do not think that Nostraman would have change much since Heresy. After all, most of these guys were a life during Heresy and as for the scholars, well I do not think that NL would have linguist among them but it appears that some of them were very smart/well educated before being recruited in to the Legion.

 

In all honesty the introduction of Nostraman in to the series was a really nice touch. This is one of those details that set these NL books apart of generic BL publications. It would be nice if A D-B will have further development of the language (may be an alphabet as an “extras” at the end of the book.)

[Inquisitor Engel]

In all honesty the introduction of Nostraman in to the series was a really nice touch. This is one of those details that set these NL books apart of generic BL publications. It would be nice if A D-B will have further development of the language (may be an alphabet as an “extras” at the end of the book.)

 

Or perhaps a glossary.

 

GW actually has an internal T'au glossary which includes published things and many words and sentences that haven't made it to print yet. I have a very outdated copy on a backup somewhere. I wonder if A D-B has one for Nostraman. :)

 

If written it does look vaguely Hindu, I wonder if those new Carcharodon Decald would fit. I know it's Polynesian-ish, but they do look brutal and vaguely Henna-ish...

 

Hmmm thoughts....

[Marshal Rohr]

Somebody pointed out that Uzas in Croatian was 'twisted' and Talos was something else, but they were both real words.

 

The flowery script or whatever can be anything, english can be written in flowing script, it doesnt take much.

 

Arabic is a 'flowing' script but only because its all in cursive, if it wasnt in cursive you could still possibly read it if you know the letter rules.

[Marshal Traben]

Uzas means horror or terror in Russian and in Croatian, if i remember correctly.

[Brother Kirus]

...Uzas means horror or terror in Russian and in Croatian, if i remember correctly...

 

Hmmm…. Never looked at it this way… I would have spelled it a bit different – Uzhas. But still close enough!

[Inquisitor Engel]

So I've been thinking a bit more... Names in fiction are meant to evoke something, and the names one might choose for a Night Lords army (which I am in the process of planning) tie into that.

 

To be honest, there's a big variable in what background you choose to influence your army:

 

How dedicated to Curze your Captain is. There are three points of view for Night Lords armies, IMHO.

 

• The first kind is a company/warband that abhor both Chaos and the poisoning of the Legion by gang members and criminals from Nostramo. This is the rarest, probably made up of Cruze-faithful Terrans (Sahaal perhaps) and Nostramans who were recruited while Nostramo was still in the sway of Batman Night Haunter's enforced law. For these groups, fear is the tool, the means to an end.
  I can't think of a background example of this army, but it must exist SOMEWHERE in an entire Legion that scattered like the Night Lords.
  
• Companies/warbands that abhor Chaos but are populated by a great many of the latter Nostraman recruits and generally isn't a big fan of Chaos, though some might see it as a 'tool.' Captain Vandred/The Exalted's 10th Company in "Soul Hunter" and "Blood Reaver" exemplifies this best. Fear is a means to an end, but also something these Night Lords thoroughly enjoy inflicting, sometimes for fear's sake alone.
  
• Companies/warbands that embrace Chaos as a way of life wholesale, though perhaps under the mistaken belief they're in control. They make extensive use of Raptors (as opposed to Assault Marines*) and other corrupted troops. The companies controlled by Krieg Acerbus, the Axemaster, (And possibly Captain Halasker) best exemplify this group. Fear for these Night Lords is both the means and the end, their purpose for living.
  

 

Obviously there's middle grounds between each of those categories and different points of view can exist within the same company, but those are the general "facets" as I see them.

 

 

 

*The Raptor squad 'The Bleeding Eyes' in "Blood Reaver" are daemonic in some sense and the general description of them indicates they're emblematic of all Raptors (as we see them portrayed in the Codex) In "Throne of Lies" First Claw uses jump packs to surprise and capture the Callidus they've set the trap for.

 

Clearly there's a difference within Chaos Legions between 'Raptors' and 'Assault Marines,' though in the actual game this distinction probably isn't worth making.

[Brother Nihm]

I can't think of a background example of this army, but it must exist SOMEWHERE in an entire Legion that scattered like the Night Lords.

You should read Nightfall, by Peter Fehervari.

 

The companies controlled by Krieg Acerbus, the Axemaster, (And possibly Captain Halasker) best exemplify this group.

Possibly Gorsameth, Periclitor (later 'unofficially' retconned to be a Word Bearer) and Tarraq Darkblood as well.

[empty choke]

Captain Vandred/The Exalted's 10th Company in "Soul Hunter" and "Blood Reaver"

 

 

Vandred/Exalted was an Sargeant. Sorry to go off topic. haha, Conttinue! :o

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Captain Vandred/The Exalted's 10th Company in "Soul Hunter" and "Blood Reaver"

 

 

Vandred/Exalted was an Sargeant. Sorry to go off topic. haha, Conttinue! :tu:

 

Vandred was promoted to Captain of the 10th after Malcharion was entombed.

[Ring-around-the-roses]

Vandred is the epitomy of awesome, even more so than his primarch, waiting hundreds of years and going through so much pain just to get that one shot and hurting his enemy.

 

Total Curze