thade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My goal is a 24" range force; no psy-riflemen, no vindicare...essentially my ranged anti-vehicle is going to be exclusively psycannons. Some of you have been using this codex for a good bit now, so I'm wondering if you've put any thought into this question: How many psycannons should I bring at 1500, 1750, and 2000 points. Would five to seven work at 2000 points? Or would I need more? Significantly more? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Assault cannon Razorbacks with psy ammo might be another option you could look into; Str 7 AP 4 Heavy 4 Rending Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My goal is a 24" range force; no psy-riflemen, no vindicare...essentially my ranged anti-vehicle is going to be exclusively psycannons. Some of you have been using this codex for a good bit now, so I'm wondering if you've put any thought into this question: How many psycannons should I bring at 1500, 1750, and 2000 points. Would five to seven work at 2000 points? Or would I need more? Significantly more? Something to keep in mind. Is that a Psycannon get will get about 16/9 (Nearly 2) full pens on a vehicle when firing stationary (or thats 2 moving Psycannons ;) ) So consider how many rhino level vehicles you might be facing off against in the appropriate levels and start working from there. I would propose that you might need to deal with 3-6 Rhinos in 1500, increasing by 1 to both minimum and total as you go up for each 250pts. So if you want to go on the safe side I would propose in the area of 5 and then increasing by one for each pts level if stationary and double that if moving. Of course I dont play grey Knights :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 How do you want to build your force? Terminators? Strike squads? Purgation squads? Dreadknights? Foot? Mech? To start, you can use two Inquisitors in terminator armor with psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I am, unabashedly, going to follow in Paladin Nurglez's footsteps. I'll have one Paladin Deathstar weighing in at ten models with four psycannons. However, they're a "death star" and can only shoot at one thing per turn (unless I compromise their durability by combat squadding them). So I'll have ten relentless models; I will be bringing one Inquisitor in TDA and possibly will give him a psycannon. Otherwise, Strike squads and Purg squads. I like the Razorback idea, I hadn't thought of that (as I was planning to footslog). Thought as this list gets denser in terms of PA I may be pressed into transports, 24" range on the move or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 You can get some Purg squads and buy them a Razorback with Assault cannons with psy ammo this would be better than a moveing PA with a Psycannon because it always has 4 shoots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3mpl@r Crusade Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 However, they're a "death star" and can only shoot at one thing per turn Our armor can't repell firepower of that magnitude! lol, when I read that I imagined the death star blasting the first rebel cruiser to bits, imagined admiral ackbar, loled. I would put as many psycannons that your allowed per squad, and then squeezing more out of your army, such as the previously mentioned inquisitor wep platform. razorbacks will be awesome too. just think: where is one more place I can possibly put a psycannon? and put it there. If you can afford the points, intersceptors with psycannons have a 36" threat range and would effectively increase the "range" of your psycannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My opinion is the more the merrier :cuss at 1500 and 2000 points my draigo wing only have 6 psycannons, could fit in more but I felt that I should try and get some things that I don't have (psychic support/suppression, anti horde and longer range anti tank). Psycannon's are great, however, relying on rending to do damage is iffy, you must make sure you can take out vehicles/MC's etc in combat as well if needed. from looking at the codex it seems that purgation squads, purifier squads and paladin squads can get the most psycannons per squad. Purgation squads seem under used (from looking at grey knight army lists) probably because people like dreads, Dk's and landraiders more. My problem with razorback's is that they seem to pay a lot for a psycannon, even though it is twin linked. Rhino's are cheap and you can fire from the top hatch, letting a 5 purifier squad with 2 psycannon's fire just as many psycannon shots (without the twin linked) from the top hatch, and more if it stays still. Lastly, I'll say that if you are not taking anything else (vindicare/psyrifle dreads etc) then you will probably want as many psycannons as you can fit in. If going for purg squads take a grandmaster so you can make them scoring if needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Our armor can't repell firepower of that magnitude! lol, when I read that I imagined the death star blasting the first rebel cruiser to bits, imagined admiral ackbar, loled. It's a trap!! just think: where is one more place I can possibly put a psycannon? and put it there. Not a bad rule of thumb, but my intention here is to minimize the number of psycannons while still depending on them exclusively for ranged anti-armor. Maximizing how many I have is viable and easy...but restricts other options that I might want to take in my list for flavor that are not specifically (or at all) anti-armor. It's a complicated question, I'll grant you. For instance, the minimum necessary psycannons needed versus a DoA Blood Angel list versus say a BT LR spam list are dramatically different; then factor in table layout and positioning/deployment...can I segment their force or goad it into a bottleneck, thus reducing the number of vehicles I need to worry about per turn? It's non-trivial. I was curious to see what others have been thinking/doing in practice. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If you are going for the Paladin Deathstar then the max number of psycannons you are going to get is around 25 by running 2 OM Inquisitors with Psycannons 10 Paladins with 4 psycannons 10 Purifiers with 4 Psycannons 3 x 5 Puragtion with 4 psycannons 10 strikes with 2 Psycannons 5 Strikes with 1 Psycannons That said I think the minimum you should run is around 10 if they are to be your sole anti-armor. The hard part is for them to be very effective you need to have around 4 shots going into something. Something to keep in mind. Is that a Psycannon get will get about 16/9 (Nearly 2) full pens on a vehicle when firing stationary (or thats 2 moving Psycannons ) So consider how many rhino level vehicles you might be facing off against in the appropriate levels and start working from there. This is not correct with 4 shots 2/3 hit (2.67 hits), then you need a 5 or 6 to penetrate AV 11 (1/3 of all hits will penetrate) this ammounts to 0.89 penetrating hits per round of firing or about an 89% chance of landing 1 penetrating hit on a Rhino. Against AV 12 and 13 it comes out to about 44%, and against AV 14 it is about 29%. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 HQ Inquisitor Coteaz, 100 Troops Grey Knight Strike Squad, 295 Psybolt Ammunition Justicar, Master-crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer 7x Grey Knights 2x Grey Knights (2x Psycannon) Rhino Grey Knight Strike Squad, 295 Psybolt Ammunition Justicar, Master-crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer 7x Grey Knights 2x Grey Knights (2x Psycannon) Rhino Elite Purifier Squad, 340 Knight of the Flame, (Master-crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer) 5x Purifier (Nemesis Force Halberd) 4x Purifier (Psycannon) Rhino Purifier Squad, 340 Knight of the Flame, (Master-crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer) 5x Purifier (Nemesis Force Halberd) 4x Purifier (Psycannon) Rhino Purifier Squad, 340 Knight of the Flame, (Master-crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer) 5x Purifier (Nemesis Force Halberd) 4x Purifier (Psycannon) Rhino Heavy Support Dreadnought, 135 Psybolt Ammunition + 2x Twin-Linked Autocannon Dreadnought, 135 Psybolt Ammunition + 2x Twin-Linked Autocannon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 One issue with your list, B.O. (Did you know your initials were B.O.?) No Paladin Death Star, which is my goal. <3 That's a lot psycannons though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2817789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Well if you're going for a paladin death star you might as well stick with footslogging. No point driving ahead of your paladins. For the paladins I suggest keeping it to two psycannons to preserve points (8 shots should be enough for opening up vehicles and hurting troops before charging). Purifiers have the option to field 2 per 5 models which would make them good as light tank hunter squads (4-8 shots) and are still prety decent in close combat. Unless you're fielding Crowe you're probably best of with strike squads (I don't find the terminators to be worth their points). I'd suggest at least 3 full squads with 2 psycannons each and a daemon hammer on the justicar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2818012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 when it comes to a paladin deathstar, you want 4 psycannons. you want something that is scary at shooting and scary at assault. 16 psycannon shots is awesome, but sometimes even that is only just enough to deal with a landraider or LR demolisher. 5 paladins isn't as scary as 10, and if you are going for more then 5, you might as well bring it to 10 for the extra psycannons :D (also it gives you the option to combat squad and spread the psycannons around). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2818069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I run 8 psycannons in my 1500 list as of now. The only thing I've left to buy are the 3 rifle dreads, but the cost is making me cringe compared to swapping them out for some Paladin goodness. My next game will involve me swapping out the Dreadnoughts for 5 paladins with 2 psycannons without losing any of the 8 other psycannons. You can never have enough psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2818887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I run 8 psycannons in my 1500 list as of now. The only thing I've left to buy are the 3 rifle dreads, but the cost is making me cringe compared to swapping them out for some Paladin goodness. My next game will involve me swapping out the Dreadnoughts for 5 paladins with 2 psycannons without losing any of the 8 other psycannons. You can never have enough psycannons. I just think the value of popping transports at 48" is just too valuable. I look at it this way; You pop the transport at 24" with psycannons. Your opponent gets the best run roll he can and he has already halved the distance to get to you. You pop transports at 48", your opponent is spending 48"-24" dealing with continued psyrifle dread fire before even getting into the 24" range sweet spot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2818988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I just think the value of popping transports at 48" is just too valuable. I look at it this way; You pop the transport at 24" with psycannons. Your opponent gets the best run roll he can and he has already halved the distance to get to you. You pop transports at 48", your opponent is spending 48"-24" dealing with continued psyrifle dread fire before even getting into the 24" range sweet spot. Oh I agree. I designed my list like that. I'm going to do a couple experiment games to try and ease the pain on my wallet from Forge World purchases. If they don't work out I'll suck up and drop the money for Forge World stuff. That list has done magically. I've got about 11 wins now with one draw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I just think the value of popping transports at 48" is just too valuable. I look at it this way; You pop the transport at 24" with psycannons. Your opponent gets the best run roll he can and he has already halved the distance to get to you. You pop transports at 48", your opponent is spending 48"-24" dealing with continued psyrifle dread fire before even getting into the 24" range sweet spot. And how often is his transports 48" away? Like once in a hundred games? More often they are within 30" or less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 No Riflemen in my lists; I use them in my Marine army so it's not different enough for my tastes :P 24"! If I go over that range, it's because I'm painting tech marines with conversion beamers. <3 Or giving them all OS. If my boundaries seem unreasonable or even self-limiting, well...it's because they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Frankly I give you kuddos for not using the psyflemen...extremely useful yes, MASSIVELY annoying to spam and make the game rather boring and just generally annoys people..most likely yes. There are more interesting and much easier obtained options in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Frankly I give you kuddos for not using the psyflemen...extremely useful yes, MASSIVELY annoying to spam and make the game rather boring and just generally annoys people..most likely yes. There are more interesting and much easier obtained options in my opinion. I just got done playing a game where I swapped out the 3 dreads and Vindicare Assassin for 5 paladins, a Stormraven, and adding some cheap 5 point goodies to my Strike Squads, Purifiers, and Librarian. I feel much less cheezey now and the list worked pretty damn well. Might of Titan + 2 Hammerhands makes that Paladin squad + Librarian a real killer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I choose to go the same way, only adding 1 in at 2000 points. 24 inches isn't that bad, especially with s teleporting dk shunting around and causing disruption. Psycannons are such fun. And paladins. Mine have taken out their fair share of armour 14 vehicles. And a squad of blood crushers with a herald.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 No Riflemen in my lists; I use them in my Marine army so it's not different enough for my tastes ;) 24"! If I go over that range, it's because I'm painting tech marines with conversion beamers. <3 Or giving them all OS. If my boundaries seem unreasonable or even self-limiting, well...it's because they are. My thoughts exactly. If I ever get round to doing Grey Knights there will not be a Rhino or Dreadnought in sight, and lots of TDA. Otherwise I might as well play my Marines. :P I think you're going the right way about this thade. I'd say try to make sure you've got 2, maybe 3 units capable of knocking out Rhinos and then if at the end of list creation you have more room for psycannons add a few more if you want. And remember that psybolt ammo can glance Rhinos to death! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234037-how-many-psycannons-do-i-want/#findComment-2819569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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