Trouble with genestealers

[Hear da Lamentation]

I've been playing my mate (Tyranids) for about a 2 years. I play against him way, way more than anything else. Games have always been fun (I have a combat strong list, so we usually have some epics scraps.)

 

1st 18 months I regularly beat him. But now he has come up with a nice list. He varies slightly, but has roughly ...

 

(1500points)

 

Hive Tyrant and guard/Tyranid Prime deathstar

3-5 hive guard

2 xeno's

1 tervigon

10 hormigaunts

2 sets of 10 genestealers (who always outflank).

 

This has been a really nice combo for him. After catching my TWC and Lord unit out in the open near a table edge (14" away) - those genestealers massacred the TWC and 2 wounds off the lord in the 1st round of combat .... I learnt how powerful they could be. Even in cover, a unit of LF will get a few attacks off - then be massacred. Obviously this means I need to keep my LF (and often units in general) 18" away from each table edge, just in case. This has had the HUGE advantage of forcing me into the middle of the table for the 1st few rounds (until the GS come on) - which exactly what he needs. My army is based on maneuverability and this certainly curtails some of this.

 

Spearhead - and he is screwed. I get enough space to shoot him enough and deal with any GS before the rest of his army gets to me. Dawn Of War is another story though ....

 

I'm up for any advice for this, but really I just posted to pass on my experiences.

 

For Info, my army is

 

3 TWC ss / th / basic

TW Lord ra,ss,wc

 

3 SwiftClaw bikers (melta)

1 attackbike (hb)

1 Biker Wolfguard (pf, cm)

 

1RP (mh, joww)

1 WG (pf cm)

7 GH (ws, melta)

Rhino

 

1 WG (pf cm)

8 GH (ws, melta, motw)

Rhino

 

5 GH

Razorback (tlhb)

 

4 LF (ml)

pack leader

 

4 LF (ml)

pack leader

[MalachiOfRuss]

Maybe try to squeeze out 80 points to screen your Long Fangs with a couple units of Fenrisian Wolves? They would serve no other purpose but to absorb the initial surprise assault from the Genestealers, but hopefully it would be enough for you.

[Spazmonkey]

Maybe try to squeeze out 80 points to screen your Long Fangs with a couple units of Fenrisian Wolves? They would serve no other purpose but to absorb the initial surprise assault from the Genestealers, but hopefully it would be enough for you.

 

 

There is I think a few things you are able to do.

 

1.Your rune priest can use Murderous hurricane 3d6 s3 attacks but the main benifit is that on of his units is going to be slowed right down having to roll every movement/Dangeroug and difficult.

 

2. Deploy your Long fangs on the table edge to stop him flanking right behind you, this moves you away from the board centre, with your rune priest back you will have some grey hunters there to protect them. Remember you are space wolves, soften them from range rapid fire and counter assault. (I never leave mt long fangs without protection)

 

3. You you can deploy your long fangs in a building on a high floor. i depoly on the fourth floor as most people wont bother to come after them, it takes a round or two to get to them and then another round or two to get up the levels of the building. Also if you grey hunters are on the bottom floor then the Genestealers need to get assault them in cover (which will comabt their high int. They dont have a grenade like effect do they?). of course you will have been rapid firing on them before they even get to you.

 

Anyway just a few ideas off the top of my head.

[Simo429]

Sit everything in cover and let him come at you. Lack of grenades and poor saves hurt nids.

[Brother Nihm]

If you get charged by outflanking stealers you are usually not deploying correctly.

Castling up in the center usually gives you a buffer against OF Stealers and the like, however, some 'Nid players count on you to be doing just that - though he doesn't appear to have any units apart from his Deathstar that can capitalize on it.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Sit everything in cover and let him come at you. Lack of grenades and poor saves hurt nids.

He already said that his LF get wiped out even if they go first.

[Decoy]

Sit everything in cover and let him come at you. Lack of grenades and poor saves hurt nids.

He already said that his LF get wiped out even if they go first.

 

 

He also sounds like he's setting up in a Refused Flank, a prime Outflanking target.

 

 

Middle of your DZ, away from edges, set up in terrain at all costs. As it was said earlier, no frags+poor saves= unhappy nids.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

one of my regular opponents uses outflanking stealers, alot. sometimes a small band and sometimes 2 squads of 20.

 

so this is what i learned to do: deploy 19 inches from the board edge. the stealers, if they come in on that side, move 6, fleet d6 and charge 6. at best this is 18, a whole inch short. then i simply doulbe tap bolters into the stealers and they go to managable numbers.

 

very simple.

 

WLK

[Spazmonkey]

Sit everything in cover and let him come at you. Lack of grenades and poor saves hurt nids.

He already said that his LF get wiped out even if they go first.

 

 

 

Yes but if you leave long fangs without protection a full squad of almost anything will take them.

if you deploy at ground level with no protection your asking for it in my opinion.

 

if your on a higher level with say a unit of grey hunters with plasma at you back then you long fangs can focus on somthing else while the grey hunters have a radip fire sale.... in cover of course...

[Grimtooth]

As has been said, any squad of anything is going to have a good chance of smoking 6 lone Long Fangs.

 

Best advice, stay in cover to negate their initiative, rapid fire into them if you have the chance, and counter-attack. Completely decimates genestealers just being in cover.

[WG Vrox]

If your wanting a mobile army then you might consider a different unit than long fangs. Since they are the only static part of your army, they require you to hold back parts of your army to protect them. This tactic forces you to split your army in a way that leave each portion vulnerable.

 

Look at old posts from littlebitz he has a very mobile army and does employ the use of long fangs.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks guys.

 

I actually end up doing exactly what has been suggested. I make sure I keep things in cover and back up the long fangs with other elements of my army. What I was saying really though is that this forces you to take the centre field. Knowing this, he will obviously deploy his deathstar in the middle. That baby is so awesome that the only way I can cope with it is to avoid it as long as possible and shoot it with the longfangs. Even with this, he needs to be out of cover in order to make this effective. A little screening by his cheap hormigaunts (often with fnp because of the tervigon) means they are usually in cover, so avoiding it becomes difficult once I am deployed in the middle. (Even 2 units of GH are going to get wiped out by that deathstar .... rerolls to wound, instakills and no save, with about 15 attacks per round decimates marines - or TWC. If I can drop his wounds considerably, they are killable though.)

 

LF in top floors of buildings is good - but the terrain has to be right in order to do that (no point spending 3 turns getting your LF into the right position ... they lose too many rounds of shooting.)

 

1.Your rune priest can use Murderous hurricane 3d6 s3 attacks but the main benifit is that on of his units is going to be slowed right down having to roll every movement/Dangeroug and difficult.

 

You're right there - the MH is really good against the GS - damage alone is great - as is the forced difficult ground tests.

 

He also sounds like he's setting up in a Refused Flank, a prime Outflanking target.

 

 

Middle of your DZ, away from edges, set up in terrain at all costs. As it was said earlier, no frags+poor saves= unhappy nids.

 

refused flank is a great tactic against the Nids .... but as you say, this is negated by the outflankers and stops me doing that. Basically I have to keep everything 19" away from each table side ... this drops my movement area from 72" to 34" - a massive reduction.

 

One tactic which has been reasonably successful is to put the LF towards the middle and deply the 2 rhinos and razorback on the table side. If he wants to be effective with the GS he has to come in on that flank - which means at best he is going to pop a tank or two - then I can shoot the hell out of the GS. Once that threat is removed, I am back to being really maneuverable ..... but this relies on his GS coming on early in the game (which they usually do to be honest).

[Grimtooth]

If you have a GH element with your Long Fangs, you can toss them right along a board edge from the beginning of the game as long as you have them in cover. The main point is that you will be negating the genestealers high initiative. On the counter-attack, you could practically wipe out a genestealer unit before they even get to attack and if you don't he won't be swinging back with enough to wipe out your GH pack.

[Hear da Lamentation]

That's exactly it Borther Ramses - and is my main tactic. A couple of units of GS - numbering 20 in all, is quite scary though. You need at least 2 sets of GH to deal with that - and thats 2/3 of my scoring units at the moment.

 

Great posts from everyone though - thanks. An interesting quandry though .... without those GS he is easy to beat. The GS mess so much with my overall tactics - and general moveability though - they really make his army.

[Captain Idaho]

Well this quite an interesting thread. It's an example of how army lists spar with each other, the supposedly "meta" evolving in our eyes.

 

I think the problem the OP raised is one made all the more acute by the nature of SW armies. If you build a list based on several small, static squads in the open who hold the majority of your firepower then you will be extremely vulnerable to dirty tricks like outflanking assault specialists. It's likely to become a common weakness for many SW players, so the most competetive SW list will evolve to include larger, mechanised squads and less reliance of 2 to 3 squads providing fire support to the rest the army and swapping in some other ways of getting firepower in the list.