Techmarines and the Inner Circle

[Brother-Librarian Hesperos]

So as you saw in my previous statement apparently a question of lore comes up a lot.

This is one is rather simple, would an Unforgiven Techmarine, who if i read correct, can not be in the inner circle, ever be exempt from taking orders from an Unforgiven librarian, who are in the inner circle.

As you may have deduced i am currently playing deathwatch with a group of friends, I an unforgiven librarian and another player who is playing a techmarine, also unforgiven has decided that under no circumstances would he have to take orders from a librarian. Which leads me to believe that he does not hold the ideals of the Unforgiven, i also believe that should he show such rebellion the deathwing could be ordered to come "Straighten matters out". What are your guys thoughts?

I am genuinely curious.

 

Cheers!

[Isiah]

I think any techmarine showing such flagrant disobedience would be hauled off to Chamber 42 for "re-education" :D.

 

Despite the techies dual Mars/DA training – usually their allegiance to the DA is not an issue and they totally hold to Chapter doctrine. It is not any (perceived) lack of loyalty that stops them being inducted into the IC, but their oaths to the Mechanicus regarding secret tech rites and processes which are seen as a possible conflict of interest with the Chapter's secrets.

 

Cheers

I

[Bryan Blaire]

They wouldn't necessarily be introduced to the "secrets" of the Unforgiven given their dual loyalties, but a Librarian is still a command position in the Chapter/Unforgiven, while a Techmarine is not. He would have no reason to refuse orders, he may just not know the reason why they are given (if they pertain to the Fallen), however, this is no different from any other 3rd-10th Company line marine in any of the Unforgiven chapters. If a regular Marine wouldn't refuse orders, why the heck would a Techmarine? That's a pretty flagrant "violation" of Marine fluff IMO. Command is command.

 

Edit: What Isiah said. :D

[puck]

One thing to remember before trying to drop the hammer on this guy is that you're playing a pen and paper RPG. No one likes having to take orders from another player (I know party leaders are built into the game that's a weakness in the system if you ask me) and will either stop playing or draw on you (done both myself). From a fluff standpoint, it could be argued that since joining the Deathwatch means giving up your chapter affiliations for a time the techmarine would no sooner take orders from you than from a Space Wolf Rune Priest as previous chapter rank and merits do not apply to Deathwatch service. Be very careful trying to use game rules to force another player to do something they don't want to do. Especially if they're part of your regular gaming group. The older you get the harder it is to find people willing to game with you.

[Brother-Librarian Hesperos]

Thank you gentlemen you all told me pretty much what I thought, I was utterly confused by the whole thing, it gets frustrating when lore feels like it takes a swan dive in to cement.

Also though I would like to thank you puck, I agree with you completely that the group is more important to the game, which really is true! Could not really play by myself and like it, no innuendo meant.

I talked with the GM and got it all sorted, I would give the whole story but that would be a novel.

Again good sirs, I thank you for your input it was most helpful, as I have come to expect from the B&C, which is now officially my first stop.

 

Cheers until next time!

[shabbadoo]

If you are thinking to order somebody about in the Deathwatch then you have to outrank them in the Deathwatch. If you have no rank and they have no rank, then you ought to not be pulling the "But I outrank you in our Chapter." card on them. When marines are seconded to the Deathwatch they are under the command of the Deathwatch- there is no Dark Angels Chapter Command structure in effect, so save the pissing match for when you are no longer wearing Deathwatch black and silver. You do your job, and the other guy does his, according to the will of the person who is actually in command. There are no secondary orders between squad members based on their Chapter. If you are the Deathwatch squad leader, yes, they ought to follow orders. If you are not the squad leader, quit the "But I outrank you in our Chapter." thing already, because you are not among your Chapter. He doesn't listen to you, but the squad leader. Even if that squad leader is a Space Wolf, and talks smack to all the time, you carry out your orders when they are given. Doesn't mean you can't talk smack back though, but you still follow orders. B)

 

Back among the Chapter, the Librarian certainly outranks a Techmarine, so that Techmarine would follow orders or be subject to being disciplined(unless they belong to different Chapters of the Unforgiven).

[Brother Immolator]

Lets streighten a couple of things here from a lore prespective.

 

First of all lets talk dark angels.

 

The tech marines are not inducted to the inner circle due to their duality of giving oaths both to the chapter and the mechanicum of mars.The masters of the inner circle dont want to take the risk and they dont induct them to the inner circle.

That means that they know not that there is an inner circle,secrets or anything.They have the knowledge of rank and file marines in this regard.

 

So there is no point in saying:I am in the inner circle follow my orders.If i was a techmarine of the DA and heard that i would say:And i am in the mechanicums internal clockwork mechanism follow mine!

 

Second a librarian is a librarian.Regardless of chapter they are considered senior to the rank and file battle brothers(and that includes tech marines).Especially if they are epistolaries.BUT since you both are in the deathwatch position is irrelevant.Though i know that librarians are usualy squad leaders in deathwatch kill teams as much as captains and chaplains that is decision i believe for the inquisitor in charge to make.

 

All those are taken from establisted lore i have no books of deathwatch campaigns to read so in the game thingies might be subject to change.