shin-ryu-ken Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Ok so I have quite a lot of questions about the composition of the chapter and this seems to be the best way to answer them. I'm after any help/info on the exact composition of the Blood Angels. Lets start simple with a company, lets say the 4th and lets assume it's at full strength. 4th Company - "Knights of Baal" Captain Castigon Honour Guard - 4 Honour Guard, 1 Sanguinary Novitate, Company Banner Here's the 1st question, are the Honour Guard just assumed to accompany the Captain and so not listed or are they drafted in from within the 4th company meaning one Tactical Squad is half strength? Or are they drafted in from the Veteran 1st Company thus reducing thier numbers? 6 X 10 man Tactical Squads - Rhino each, switch for Razorback if necessary. This is my 2nd problem, who drives the Rhino? If it's a member of the squad then you have a 9 man squad. Are there a pool of drivers in the company who aren't included in the company list or are they supplied by the armoury? If so they aren't listed in the Armoury either. 2 X 10 man Assualt Squads - Bike's and Landspeeders available when needed 2 X 10 man Devestator Squads 4 X Dreadnoughts Death Company - Can be pretty much any number of these as you like I guess, as long as it's one squad. Between 3 and 30 According to Codex : Space Marines each company has a Chaplain and an Apothecary so I'm assuming that applies to the Blood Angels too. So we can add this also. Chaplain Question 3, are these 'Company' Chaplains in addition to those listed in the Reclusiam? There are no Chaplain's listed in Codex : Space Marines but one Chaplain is assigned to each company so presumably the Blood Angels follow the Codex Astartes in this and The Reclusiam is a seperate entity unique to the Blood Angels consisting of only Reclusiarch's? Would he be assigned to the Captain's Honour Guard or the Death Company? Sanguinary Priest - I'm assuming there's one of these instead of the Apothecary, guess he'd be attatched to Tactical Squad 1 as the Honour Guard(s?) have a Sanguinary Novitiate Which leads to question 4, are these included in the 21 Sanguinary Priests listed in the Sanguinary Priesthood or are these extra ones too? Or are we to assume that the Sanguinary Novitiates in the Honour Guard fill this roll and the Sanguinary Priests are 'floating' and are assigned to companies from the Priesthood as and when necessary? Thanks a lot for your help, I'd like to get it as accurate as possible. I know it's fictional and this is really anal but hey, it's fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Yellow Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 You might want to do a general search on chapter composition, as BA are codex (more or less) that will give you a better idea of what is in it. As we all know 1000 marines, 10 comapnies,1 vet, 4 battle (2Ass 2 Dev and 6 Tac) 4 reserve companies (1 Dev, 1 Ass, 2 Tac) and scout company. That's 100 per company. Then you have Captain and his guard so actually 106. Everything else is open to interpretation. Guys who drive a rhino. There is a load of stories that put it one way or the other so no real consensus. Initiates are not full priests so probably not counted, unless stated otherwise. Same goes for chaps, libs etc. there is no hard and fast rule. Don't even get started on guys crewing the fleet. There are threads that state a chapter should really be like 1500 to 2000 marines when you count up fleet crews, vehicles crews and all the rest. Basically there is no right or wrong. Unless it's in the codex you can make up what you like (as long as it's not ridiculous). Honour Guard don't come from first company, as far as I know. Already explained the rhino driver thing, Rhinos though are attached to the company and do not come from the armoury (though some vehicles do) Company chaps will be assigned from the Reclusiam, so the codex shows total number of all the chappies in the chapter and they are then assigned. Answered the initate thing already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2818548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think that the honour guard are supernumeries, chosen by the captain from the company to help him, and that their places are filled by new recruits, thus maintaining the chapter at 106 marines, not inc chaplains, techs, libbys etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2818563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 The chaplains belong to the Reclusium. The Noviates are not part of the Priesthood yet. GW fluff varies on who drives Rhinos and Razorback, and in C:BA there bids the question who drives the Predators, Land Raiders, and Storm Ravens? The TO in the codex is about 100 Techmarines short, but the sprues included in every vehicle kit suggest the drivers are Techmarines, perhaps techmarine Noviates? Mostly you can say that 100 is a nominal number and probably doesn't include support staff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2818705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Interesting stuff. The Honour Guard are not the same as the Codex command squad. They are a distinctive feature of the chapter and are assigned to various HQ figures. It is even possible the captain doesn't have one. I would assume that only the sanguinary novitiate (not part of the company structure) and the Company champion (Has a distinct job and special armour) are supernumery) and that the others are picked ad hoc or as rewards. I am pretty sure the drivers of the rhinos are in addition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2818728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Alright, the command squad/honor guard is composed of marines drawn from within the company, who are then replaced with other marines. The Sanguinary is drawn from the chapter HQ. Most sources I've read state that the driver/gunners are part of the Armory, and this makes the most sense to me. However, the fluff contradicts itself. The Chaplain is from the Reclusiam, and tends to wander among squads, though he'll sometimes command a part of the company when it's split up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Alright, the command squad/honor guard is composed of marines drawn from within the company, who are then replaced with other marines. The Sanguinary is drawn from the chapter HQ. Most sources I've read state that the driver/gunners are part of the Armory, and this makes the most sense to me. However, the fluff contradicts itself. The Chaplain is from the Reclusiam, and tends to wander among squads, though he'll sometimes command a part of the company when it's split up. How does fluff contradict this? Everything I have read, like you said, says that they are drawn from the armory, but sometimes a regular marine will take the reigns should the need arise. Also, in the codexes I believe all it says is that the scouts who show aptitude in stuff like that continue their training in learning how to drive vehicles (which I always saw as they were assigned to the Armory where they would be reassigned to driving positions in various companies). I could be wrong though :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Alright, the command squad/honor guard is composed of marines drawn from within the company, who are then replaced with other marines. The Sanguinary is drawn from the chapter HQ. Most sources I've read state that the driver/gunners are part of the Armory, and this makes the most sense to me. However, the fluff contradicts itself. The Chaplain is from the Reclusiam, and tends to wander among squads, though he'll sometimes command a part of the company when it's split up. How does fluff contradict this? Everything I have read, like you said, says that they are drawn from the armory, but sometimes a regular marine will take the reigns should the need arise. Also, in the codexes I believe all it says is that the scouts who show aptitude in stuff like that continue their training in learning how to drive vehicles (which I always saw as they were assigned to the Armory where they would be reassigned to driving positions in various companies). I could be wrong though :confused: In C:BA it shows over 140 vehicles in the armory not including rhinos and Rbs and only 35? Ish techmarines. That's the contradiction. Well to me it is. He may have meant something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 But techmarines don't drive the vehicles, scouts and younger marines do... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 A lot of the half figures that come with the vehicle kits have the mechanicus shoulder plate (Machina Opus?) as mentioned and I'm sure 'how to paint Space Marines' shows the Ultramarines ones in red tech armour. It is very hard to tell with our guys, being red already. I would actually be quite surprised if normal marines had the know-how to awake and appease the machine spirits of these very ancient machines. Looking at the codex, the painted Honour Guard models have the white skull of the first company on their shoulder plate, and they are usually taken to be dante's own honour Guard, although that isn't the caption in this codex. The write up says the captain's honour guard are drawn from his company, which suggests to me they are part of the 100 man full complement, not an addition to it. None of the pictures show them with the crux terminatus, and they don't have the option of Terminator armour, so I suppose that, inspite of their stats, they are not from the first company generally. The explanatory passage about Assault squads filling up more rapidly than tactical ones suggests to me that companies are more likely to have fewer than 100 marines at any one time than that they have lots of supernumeries. The fluff suggests the sanguinary novitiates are specials, occassionally brought in, preseumably they are the members of the priesthood in training. The Company Champion is not explained. He may be the best hand to hand fighter in the company (one of the sergeants) or an extra job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Yellow Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...sp?aId=10900003 Straight from the horses mouth. This is what they consider to be a codex battlecompany. The guys in the command squad aren't drawn from the other squads as they are all at ten men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shin-ryu-ken Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Sweet, thanks for the link, that pretty much settles a few of the questions as far as I'm concerened. Drivers are extra, Honour Guard are extra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...sp?aId=10900003 Straight from the horses mouth. This is what they consider to be a codex battlecompany. The guys in the command squad aren't drawn from the other squads as they are all at ten men. Fluff =/= Rules That box is for the Apocalypse formation which has some fluffy issues: fluffwise every battle company has bikes & speeders to be used by its assault marines rulewise the apocalypse formation does not allow bikes or speeders in place of assault marines fluffwise every company has a Chaplain (if you go back far enough the fluff stated that Reclusiarchs were responsible for the chapters Reclusium whilst Chaplains were responsible for their companies chapel - hence the names) ruleswise the apocalypse formation has the Chaplain as optional fluffwise every company has an apothecary and standard bearer - a full command squad however is codex approved but purely optional. ruleswise the apocalypse formation has the full command squad as mandatory Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 But, as above, we don't have command squads and we have honour guards which are similiar but not identical. The write up is quite different and it is specifically an area where we differ from the Codex. I would have prefered a bit more thought about these kind of fluffy issues in our codex. The organisiation of the chapter box was coughed out with little thought (the absurd number of Landraiders relative to the Thunderhawks, the out of continuity names of the captains etc etc) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234091-accurate-chapter-composition/#findComment-2819827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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