PyronusSouria Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Another dispute between me and a gamer at GW. He had a Space Marine Captain with a storm bolter, a power sword and hellfire rounds. I said it was cute that his Captain had a bunch of rounds that he couldn't fire. He says Storm Bolters can fire them, I say they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hellfire rounds can only be fired from bolter. This included combi-bolters and twin-linked bolters on space marine bikes. Storm bolter is none of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 This is tricky, especially with the new GK codex which may be confusing people. In the vanilla codex, only a boltgun (or a twin-linked boltgun, or a combi-bolter which has a boltgun) can fire special rounds (i.e. hell-fire rounds, any of the special ammo that the sternguard uses, etc). A storm bolter is not a boltgun; it's a "stormbolter." RAW saws you are right: he can't fire those bullets. This is not as weird as it sounds. Think about how many real-life guns there are that look very similar except for size and fire different caliber rounds. EDIT: forgot about bikes :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Technically, they're the same caliber, if I remember correctly. They just can't fire hellfire rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Technically, they're the same caliber, if I remember correctly. They just can't fire hellfire rounds. I seem to recall this as well, but the ruling is pretty clear; especially considering things like Sternguard, whom - if they bring Stormbolters to the field - cannot use their special ammunition, per the (unfortunate) wording of their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 For balance purposes, it makes sense. You don't want Assault 2 bolters with special ammo on them for veterans. That might get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 For balance purposes, it makes sense. You don't want Assault 2 bolters with special ammo on them for veterans. That might get ugly. They wouldn't be assault 2 though because the special ammo replaces the statline for the stormbolter, making them rapid fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Another dispute between me and a gamer at GW. He had a Space Marine Captain with a storm bolter, a power sword and hellfire rounds. I said it was cute that his Captain had a bunch of rounds that he couldn't fire. He says Storm Bolters can fire them, I say they can't. Kindly refer him to page 100 of C:SM, where it says "Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun". Then offer him the chance to swap them for digi weapons as a sign of good faith ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 For balance purposes, it makes sense. You don't want Assault 2 bolters with special ammo on them for veterans. That might get ugly. They wouldn't be assault 2 though because the special ammo replaces the statline for the stormbolter, making them rapid fire. I mean, I would certainly like for this to be true...but I don't think it is. Nor do I have either of my books with me at work. Last time we duked this out I'm pretty sure we ruled that storm bolters completely negate the usage of special ammo. Where is Legatus when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This is all theoretical. We're pretending Storm Bolters could use special ammo. Morollan: You know, considering the number of times that's been brought up, including a few times by me, you'd think I'd remember that it replaces the profile. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Kindly refer him to page 100 of C:SM, where it says "Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun". Then offer him the chance to swap them for digi weapons as a sign of good faith ;). This is the best answer here. The offer to let him use the points on something else shows true sportsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hmm, let me ask a leading question... If Hellfire rounds may only be used by a "Boltgun", then does that preclude their use by Combi-weapons? I ask because I am reminded of the discussion thread from several months ago where some (including myself) argued that a Combi-weapon is a Boltgun plus a One-shot special weapon, thus firing the One-shot special weapon left a model with a Boltgun while others argued that a Combi-weapon is a Combi-weapon and never was, is, or will be a Boltgun. If that arguement holds true then Hellfire shells should not be allowed in either Stormbolters or Combi-weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hmm, let me ask a leading question...If Hellfire rounds may only be used by a "Boltgun", then does that preclude their use by Combi-weapons? I ask because I am reminded of the discussion thread from several months ago where some (including myself) argued that a Combi-weapon is a Boltgun plus a One-shot special weapon, thus firing the One-shot special weapon left a model with a Boltgun while others argued that a Combi-weapon is a Combi-weapon and never was, is, or will be a Boltgun. If that arguement holds true then Hellfire shells should not be allowed in either Stormbolters or Combi-weapons. Not sure what the wording is in C:SM but in BA codex, special ammo on sternguard specifically includes combi-weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Not sure what the wording is in C:SM but in BA codex, special ammo on sternguard specifically includes combi-weapons Hellfire RoundsIf a model carries hellfire rounds, replace their boltgun's profile (including a boltgun on a Space Marine bike) with the following. {{snip}} Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyronusSouria Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 C:SM says that "Combi-weapons are bolters..." so I think they count as a bolter. Also, in the Sternguard C:SM definition, there's a little bit in brackets that says "Each special ammunition type replaces the boltgun profile (including boltguns that are part of a combi-weapon) with the one shown here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Very good. I always hate when GW tucks necessary rules pieces in unusual spots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Very good. I always hate when GW tucks necessary rules pieces in unusual spots... That is their specialty, no? At least it keeps us busy. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Sternguard can specifically use their special ammo with combi-bolters, it says so in their Special Issue Ammunition rule on page 63 of C:SM. Hellfire rounds and combi-weapons? Well I'm in the "a combi-weapon is a boltgun with a one shot special weapon and so is a boltgun for wound allocation after special weapon is shot" camp. Which means I firmly agree with hellfire rounds being used with the combi-weapons, but obviously only with the boltgun profile. It replaces the profile of a boltgun, and as far as I'm concerned the combi-weapon is still a boltgun. @awfulawful, I think it's the fairest way to resolve issues, especially if it's a friendly game and your opponent doesn't know. Plus you educate them in how awesome a combo the relic blade and digi weapons are. I mean you roll a lot of 1s, or at least I do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Melvin Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Fluff-wise, I recall seeing something about the ammo feeds on stormbolters that prevented them from being able to fire special ammo. The box feeds also jammed frequently, which might have something to do with it. Don't remember exactly where though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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