Pirate Metal Troy Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Alrighty, here's the background: Tyberos's rule (in IA:10) states that if the army is lead by Tyberos, one lightning claw equipped terminator squad in your army may be taken as a troops choice. Now here's the question: Do all the models in the squad need to have lightning claws to count the squad as a troops choice? It does not say "If all models in the squad are equipped with lightning claws it may be taken as a troops choice", but logically it makes sense that way. However, from a RAW perspective, if I only take one model with lightning claws, that squad IS still technically equipped with lightning claws. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Its in the complete sentence- "one lightning claw equipped terminator squad," IE, the whole squad needs to be equipped with them. I don't think they all need to have dual lightning claws, but they should all have at least one. But I've never even seen an IA book, so take my opinion with salt :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Its in the complete sentence- "one lightning claw equipped terminator squad," IE, the whole squad needs to be equipped with them. I don't think they all need to have dual lightning claws, but they should all have at least one. But I've never even seen an IA book, so take my opinion with salt :) Codex Marines don't have an option to take single claws, so all 5-10 terminators must be equipped with a pair of lightning claws. You're missing out on IA books though, Something Wycked, aside from a lack of proofreading they knock the pants off anything GW have produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Codex Marines let's you take singe claws, it says "any model may replace" not "all models may replace". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Codex Marines let's you take singe claws, it says "any model may replace" not "all models may replace". they mean having one claw per model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I don't think they all need to have dual lightning claws, but they should all have at least one. Yeah, I was responding to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Im less certain. If a tactical squad is toting around a missile launcher, I would probly refer to it as a missile launcher equiped tactical squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 See, I didn't realise that character was for C:SM :wacko: I was thinking CSM or Wolves or... something else, with more flexible Terminators :rolleyes: You're missing out on IA books though, Something Wycked, aside from a lack of proofreading they knock the pants off anything GW have produced. For what? Rules or fluff? If its rules, I'm not interested; if I want optional rules, I'll take mainstream things like Planetstrike. Fluff I'm certainly more interested in, but I'm not interested in buying fluff at the prices FW charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatEscape_13 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 As said above, the rule suggests that no matter what the size of the unit, everyone in it needs to have lightning claws. Still a great unit, despite no 3++. And I second the "missing out" on the Badab War books. They are by far the best overall books (fluff, rules, missions, fun, graphics) for the 40k. Yes, they're mostly fluff--and I can understand the "it's expensive for fluff" argument. But it is still fair to say that you are "missing out" not having them. e.x. I do not own a yacht, because I am unwilling to pay the price for it, yet I can be considered "missing out" on the benefits of the yacht. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 As said above, the rule suggests that no matter what the size of the unit, everyone in it needs to have lightning claws. Still a great unit, despite no 3++.While I agree the intention probably is to allow only a squad exclusively armed with lightning claws, a 10 man squad with one man equipping LCs and the others TH+SS is still equipped with lightning claws - exactly 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thats not a lightning claw equipped terminator squad, thats a terminator squad with one pair of lightning claws equipped. You need a full squad of lightning claw equipped terminators. Otherwise it would say a terminator squad that includes at least one model armed with lightning claws. It's just standard english, there's no ambiguity here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The wording is "a Lightning Claw-equipped Assault Terminator Squad". Since this does not specify that all models in the squad need to be equipped with Lightning Claws, by RAW up to n-1 models can be equipped differently (i.e. with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields) and the squad still has lightning claws among its equipment and thus still is lightning claw equipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyanamiKun Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 To me a lightning claw equiped squad means all have lighting claws. It seems like very clear wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The wording is "a Lightning Claw-equipped Assault Terminator Squad". Since this does not specify that all models in the squad need to be equipped with Lightning Claws, by RAW up to n-1 models can be equipped differently (i.e. with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields) and the squad still has lightning claws among its equipment and thus still is lightning claw equipped. Lightningclaw is not a Thunderhammer, i dunno why you get that mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Lightningclaw is not a Thunderhammer, i dunno why you get that mixed up.I never said that. In a squad with at least one model equipped with LCs there are obviously Lightning Claws present, thus it is "Lightning Claw-equipped". Being "Lightning Claw-equipped" does not necessarily mean that every model has to have Lightning Claws. An Honour Guard / Command squad can be "Banner-equipped". Would you say that each model carries a Banner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander S. Caesare Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 i swear to god, Tyberos is just overkill on the number of the vary sharp-pointy things on him. Anyway, I believe the rule state that "one Lightning-Claw-equipped Terminator Squad" is 1 Close Combat squad, being all equipped with lightning claws. The wording is "a Lightning Claw-equipped Assault Terminator Squad". Since this does not specify that all models in the squad need to be equipped with Lightning Claws, by RAW up to n-1 models can be equipped differently (i.e. with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields) and the squad still has lightning claws among its equipment and thus still is lightning claw equipped. I agree with this, since I don't think there really is a specific title squad named "Lightning-Claw Terminator Squad". It's just a CC squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The key word is squad, not equipped. Lightning claw equipped terminator squad. By RAW you couldn't have any because a terminator squad cannot equip lightning claws, only a terminator assault squad can. Using the honour guard example - the squad has a banner equipped, it is not equipped with banners. A terminator squad that has a single pair of lightning claws in it is not equipped with lightning claws. Scouts are able to equip camo cloaks on a per model basis. Would you allow a ten man scout squad with one model wearing a camo cloak to claim the Stealth USR? The english is clear to me and is RAW and RAI equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 If at anytime you have a model equipped with something else other then a set of lightning claws, you are no longer a lightning claw equipped squad, you are a lightning claw and <insert other ccw> squad. I don't see the issue other then attempted weaseling out of the rules as written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Where did you get that "lightning Claw-equipped" means equipped with Lightning claws and nothing else? The underlined part simply is not in the text. The squad has at least one pair Lightning Claws thus it is equipped with them and you can call it "Lightning Claw-equipped". Now to be really literal, if you follow your reasoning from above, no Assault Terminator Squad could fulfill this condition, as LCs are never their only equipment. They also have TDA. I am flummoxed, the Assault Terminators, contrary to the shooty ones, do not get TDA :wacko: Errata have not fixed this yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyanamiKun Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm with Ramses here. If it would mean "a squad with one or more lighting claw equipped models" or something like that it would be different. The wording is talking about the squad, not a single model, so all have to get them. :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Where did you get that "lightning Claw-equipped" means equipped with Lightning claws and nothing else? The underlined part simply is not in the text. The squad has at least one pair Lightning Claws thus it is equipped with them and you can call it "Lightning Claw-equipped".Now to be really literal, if you follow your reasoning from above, no Assault Terminator Squad could fulfill this condition, as LCs are never their only equipment. They also have TDA. I am flummoxed, the Assault Terminators, contrary to the shooty ones, do not get TDA :lol: Errata have not fixed this yet. The rule is not inclusive of anything other then lightning claws. You say, "you can call it lightning claw equipped" but it is also something else which you cannot dsregard whether that is thunder hammer/storm shield or whatever. The rule is not inclusive of anything else at all so you cannot be lightning claw equipped and <insert ccw> equipped squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The rule is not inclusive of anything other then lightning claws. You say, "you can call it lightning claw equipped" but it is also something else which you cannot dsregard whether that is thunder hammer/storm shield or whatever.True but the burden of proof is on you to show that a squad ceases to be equipped with lightning claws as soon as one model has another ccw. If one model has lightning claws, the squad is Lightning Claw-equipped, because its equipment includes Lightning Claws. The rules do not say " an Assuault Terminator squad that uses only LCs as CCW". The rule is not inclusive of anything else at all so you cannot be lightning claw equipped and <insert ccw> equipped squad.While this is a valid interpretation the wording however does not state that. Why do you restrict the non-inclusiveness to CCWs? What about other gear? An Assault Terminator Squad should be equipped with TDA as well, does this preclude them from becoming scoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The proof is in the equipment that is not lightning claws. All I would need to do is point at your squad, tell you that it has <ccw> and it is not a lightning claw equipped squad that it is a lightning claw and <ccw> equipped squad of which the rules do not include. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The proof is in the equipment that is not lightning claws. All I would need to do is point at your squad, tell you that it has <ccw> and it is not a lightning claw equipped squad that it is a lightning claw and <ccw> equipped squad of which the rules do not include.As I said before, then I can point to the pure LC squad's armors and say: "No, this squad is not scoring since it is not lightning claw-equipped but lightning claw and TDA equipped."Again the wording only says that the squad has to have something it does not say it may not have something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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