breng77 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Unless you are taking it to a tournament that allows IA rules (in which case ask the TO, as there is not an official ruling, though I would lean toward All must have LC) then you are playing a friendly/fun game, as your opponent if he minds if you mix match/how he feels the rule should be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The proof is in the equipment that is not lightning claws. All I would need to do is point at your squad, tell you that it has <ccw> and it is not a lightning claw equipped squad that it is a lightning claw and <ccw> equipped squad of which the rules do not include.As I said before, then I can point to the pure LC squad's armors and say: "No, this squad is not scoring since it is not lightning claw-equipped but lightning claw and TDA equipped."Again the wording only says that the squad has to have something it does not say it may not have something else. Do you even read what you write? First of all, "it doesn't say I can't so I can" does not fly as an argument in a permissive rule based game system. You can only do what you are told, nothing else. Secondly, the rule tells you lightning claw equipped TERMINATOR squad. That not only rules out equipping just one terminator with LC and saying you are complying but also rules out equipping a Sternguard Veteran Squad with all LC and saying you are fulfilling the requirement as well. Funny that you don't even quote what the actual unit entry is for both types of terminator squads but instead say TDA. The actual entry says, Terminator armor, not TDA. But by all means, continue on with your reasons on how one LC equipped terminator makes a squad equipped with LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 It's not a question of "what's not forbidden should be allowed". LC-equipped Assault Terminator squad permits any Assault Terminator with LCs among its equipment to become scoring. Are you seriously trying to tell me one pair of Lightning Claws do not count as Lightning Claws? Because that is what you are saying to me. The problem is that <equipment>-equipped is not defined in any of the rulebooks so both interpretations are equally valid. You first check if the squad is an Assault Terminator Squad and then if there are LCs among the squad's equipment. The wording does not state the number of LCs must be equal to 2* the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's not a question of "what's not forbidden should be allowed". LC-equipped Assault Terminator squad permits any Assault Terminator with LCs among its equipment to become scoring. Are you seriously trying to tell me one pair of Lightning Claws do not count as Lightning Claws? Because that is what you are saying to me.The problem is that <equipment>-equipped is not defined in any of the rulebooks so both interpretations are equally valid. You first check if the squad is an Assault Terminator Squad and then if there are LCs among the squad's equipment. The wording does not state the number of LCs must be equal to 2* the models. One tree does not make a forest. One LC terminator does not make a LC equipped terminator squad, unless of course his entire squad of differently equipped terminators has been wiped out and then he would become a LC equipped terminator squad. The statement of a LC equipped terminator squad can only be fulfilled if all have LC. At any point that you have a different weapon combination on even one terminator, you are no longer a LC equipped terminator squad. At that point of a different weapon combination you become a LC equipped terminator squad and <insert ccw> terminator squad. I am not discounting that one LC equipped terminator is a LC equipped terminator. However if you start adding different weapon combination equipped members, you are no longer just a LC equipped terminator, you are a LC equipped terminator and MORE. You are not given permission as the rule is written to be a LC equipped terminator squad and MORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithior Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think you need to consider the reason behind the rule's existance. Why would they allow you to take a Terminator squad as a troop choice but only if it has a single pair of lightning claws? They might as well just let you take any Assualt Terminator squad as troops, do you need to have at least one pair in the squad incase Tyberos' claws run out of batterys so he can nick the other guy's? No. It makes more sense that they're allowing you to take the squad as his bodyguard in which case they are saying that they all have to be equiped with claws to represent Tyberos' apparent fetish for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think you need to consider the reason behind the rule's existance. Why would they allow you to take a Terminator squad as a troop choice but only if it has a single pair of lightning claws? They might as well just let you take any Assualt Terminator squad as troops, do you need to have at least one pair in the squad incase Tyberos' claws run out of batterys so he can nick the other guy's? No. It makes more sense that they're allowing you to take the squad as his bodyguard in which case they are saying that they all have to be equiped with claws to represent Tyberos' apparent fetish for them. That might be so and even correct, but it has no bearing on the RAW of a rule. We can't argue the intent of a rule as we're not in the mind of the person who wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithior Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 True, but surely if the RAW are not clear and 2 people cannot come to an agreement over the rule's intention then it makes sense to go with what the rule was intended for? I get the impression that I'm missing the point of the 'OFFICIAL RULES' section of the forum lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 If a rule allowed a certain Chapter to take one "heavy bolter equipped devastator squad" as a Troops choice, I would interprete that as a Devastator squad with four heavy bolters, not as a squad with "at least one heavy bolter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 True, but surely if the RAW are not clear and 2 people cannot come to an agreement over the rule's intention then it makes sense to go with what the rule was intended for? Actually the 'Offical Rule' for people who can't agree on rules is a dice-off [bRB p2] ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithior Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Well in that case I'll roll a dice, 1,2 or 3 and it's at least one terminator, 4,5 or 6 and it's all of them: 2, so it's official, you only have to have one model armed with lightning claws for it to count as a troops choice. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Well in that case I'll roll a dice, 1,2 or 3 and it's at least one terminator, 4,5 or 6 and it's all of them: 2, so it's official, you only have to have one model armed with lightning claws for it to count as a troops choice. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 he wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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