How to beat Nids

[Chaplain Rourke The Fanged]

I have a friend that lives in a different state so we don't get together that much. The next time we do we are planning on playing a few games and he keeps telling me that his list is going to crush me. I have not had a chance to play against it yet. Through talking with him I think this is what he is running right now.

 

 

Swarm Lord

 

9 ( I think) Zoanthropes

 

6 Ravenors

 

3 squads of Genestealers (2 with Brood Lords)

 

2 Mawlocs

 

I think he kits them up but I am not sure what he uses.

 

Any advice on how to take this list down?

 

Thanx

[Koremu]

Massed Bolter Fire.

 

Preferably Massed Sternguard Bolter Fire.

[Something Wycked]

And don't forget the missile launchers- Krak for the big critters and Frag for the little ones.

[chaplain belisarius]

vindicators...

 

maybe a hard assault unit to protect the gunline?

[Chaplain Rourke The Fanged]

what about all those zoans? would a libby be a good investment?

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What's your army like? And does he have any spore pods?

[chaplain belisarius]

a libby is always a good investment...:rolleyes:

[Koremu]

The Librarian would certainly help, but I wouldn't upgrade at all due to SitW. Take Null Zone though for dealing with Warp Fields.

 

Typhoon Land Speeders will also do very well against Tyranids (as well as against almost every other army) as they can harm both MCs and do major damage to squads.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

A Thunderfire, maybe? Cheap and lots of templates for blasting the little guys to smitherens -- perfect for smashing those genestealer squads down to manageable sizes.

[DarkGuard]

OK then. The Swarmlord is all right, I like the idea of it, and it's awesome in combat. But out of combat its T6 with a 3+ save. Sure it has 5 wounds, but with it finding it hard to get cover and no Venomthropes or Tervigons it'll go down in one, two turns if you have enough lascannons and missile launchers, and that's a massive part of his synapse gone (not that he needs it).

 

As for the Mawlocs? Stay in vehicles and then plasma and missile them to death when they appear. They have to stay for a turn before going back underground so hit them hard then.

 

And why stay in vehicles? Well you're opponent hasn't brought along any good anti-tank. Yes, Zoanthropes are not good anti-tank. Sure they have one of the best guns in the game for taking out armour, but you have to pass a psychic test, roll to hit, roll to pen, roll to do damage. And you can add to this. Put a Libby in your phase, maybe two for better coverage, and now he has to do a psychic hood test. And good use of cover adds another stage. Any of those rolls goes badly for him and his gun ain't so good. This is why Hive Guard are miles better against anything not a Rhino, the only thing Zoans have over them is being able to pen a Raider and provide synapse. Don't worry too much about abilities with your Libby, although take Null Zone to make the Zoans easier to kill through krak missiles (T4, 5+/3++ save), and to make Swarmlord easier to kill if he ends up in combat. And then take Avenger to flame those Stealers. And don't worry about SitW, it doesn't affect you as long as you stay in a vehicle.

 

Ravs die easy to missile launchers as well. And lascannons, and demolisher cannons, and mass bolter fire. With T4 and a 5+ save I'm sure you can think of ways to kill them. Just remember that they have a 12" assault range and fleet, plus really good combat stats, so get the threat ranges right.

 

Genestealers aren't so good when assaulting through cover, so either stay in your vehicle or stay in cover. They're I1 in cover, and the Broodlords can only knock out one guy in the combat if they get lucky. Be careful of them near characters though if they have implant attacks, they are good character assassins. Genestealers should have toxin sacs which make them very nasty against MEQ, but as long as you stay in cover you'll be fine. They only have a 5+ save, so striking first can kill some before they kill you. However, try to plan it so you hit them with shooting. In the open they'll die, although the Broodlord will probably still be around, while in cover you'll need flamers and the like.

 

All this means is that you need Rhinos to hide your troops in, some long-range anti-tank (ermm, anti-MC), anti-psyker, maybe a counter-attack unit, and you'll be fine. I'd look at getting a few Typhoons in there, maybe a MM/HF Speeder but Typhoons would be better for the range and multiple S8 shots. Tactical squads should have MLs as well and flamers, plus a combi-flamer for horde or combi-plasma for the Mawlocks. A Libby to lead the force, and to be honest I'd stick him in a Sternguard squad, the special ammo will be useful, their combi-plasma/melta will be awesome, and their access to heavy flamers is good. Maybe a Dreadnought or two to tie up Stealers, Ravs and Zoans, just make sure the MCs don't get to it. A TFC is rather solid, deploy it in a corner to tempt Stealers then counter-attack. Vindicators aren't advised due to the nature of this force, take combi-preds instead.

 

Quite frankly, I don't mean to insult your friend or yourself, but I'd be surprised if you lost to this list. Vehicles, missiles, flamers and Libby, that's all you need. He has no way of getting cover for the big things unless you have massive scenario, his only way to combat vehicles is up close, and his ranged anti-vehicle is hardly reliable, plus stupidly fragile. His awesome HQ, while awesome, is susceptible to krak missile spam, as are the Zoans, Mawlocs and Ravs, while the Stealers die in droves to flamers and bolters, just make sure they can't charge you. Even Ravs die quick to concentrated bolt fire. It may be worth having a power fist in every squad though, just in case, as it'll ID the Ravs and Zoans, and hurt the other stuff. Really though, his list looks like something that's more for fun, which is awesome, if so I respect him for that. But competitively, I don't think it stands up well and you should be fine.

[Chaplain Rourke The Fanged]

OK ive noticed it a couple times now. What does SitW mean?

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Shadow in the Warp. It's the Tyranid stop-psyker ability.

[Chaplain Rourke The Fanged]

ahh OK thank you

[Koremu]

If memory serves (I don't have the 'nid Codex to hand) it raises the odds of failing a psychic power from 3/36 to just over 7/36

[bystrom]

If memory serves (I don't have the 'nid Codex to hand) it raises the odds of failing a psychic power from 3/36 to just over 7/36

 

I would say it raises failed psychic power a lot more, since you're rolling 3D6. I haven't done the math, but on average that's 10.5, so the fail rate should be in the vicinity of 40-60%.

[Koremu]

I thought it was 3D6 select highest pair? Or was that the old Codex (can't recall)?

[Meatman]

Fail rate is more like 43/72 which is pretty high IMO.

Especially coming from 3/36

[greatcrusade08]

A Thunderfire, maybe? Cheap and lots of templates for blasting the little guys to smitherens -- perfect for smashing those genestealer squads down to manageable sizes.

 

^^this, this and more of this :(

my biggest win vs nids was a true horde army, 120 minis with 3 tervigons adding 50+ more during the game..

turn one i turned 30 gargoyles into 10, and lots of guants thereafter..

 

good times :lol:

 

plus S6 can hurt Mcs at a pinch, and S5 still wounds gaunts on a 2+ and ignores cover...

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

hey rouke. i have some experience fighting nids so i think i have some good input for you. first off, you're going to want heavy ordnance to nuetralize the zoans and swarmlord asap. Typhoons, tornados, pred-annihilators, all good choices. Nids, even with their big scary sand crawlers, are still only S6, so an IC with a powerfist or thunder hammer/SS can actually do wonders. i wouldn't take a libby as i find the SinW usually makes him too unreliable. also, nids still have a very hard time with heavy armor, so land raiders aren't out of the question, just be wary of the zoans. Genestealers don't default have frag grenades, so if your infantry are exposed make sure it's in cover, also stuff a combi plasma or flamer on everyone who can take them. Venerable dreadnaughts also do wonders with their WS5 and damage re-rolls. Sternguard were also mentioned, and while they would do wonders against MC, they'll be a big target and get assaulted. I wouldn't use more than one squad unless you went pedal to the metal Pedro. Still, a wonderful unit for this scenario, being able to gun down MC's, pack a gross amount of combi's, tote cheap Heavy weapons and ignore cover.

[DarkGuard]

I thought it was 3D6 select highest pair? Or was that the old Codex (can't recall)?

 

It's the full 3D6, with any double 1 or double 6 rolled being a Perils. It is far inferior to many other anti-psyker abilities due to it's 12" range, the fact that any result over 12 doesn't result in a Perils (ala Eldar) and that unlike Eldar and Marines etc it doesn't affect units in transports. Therefore, Libbys are reliable as Nids tend to struggle against transports, especially with Hive Guard. Keep the Libby in the transport, block his Warp Lances or kill the Zoans quickly, and you won't be affected by SitW.

[Captain Idaho]

Something not touched upon but probably more likely to lose you a game against an opponent with just as much ability as yourself (there abouts) is deployment.

 

I lost my last game against Tyranids in the ToS in the 1st dice roll, after making my 1st decision. I had choice of deployment zones and thought I was being clever deploying in the open side of the board so the Tyranids would have to break the cover on their side to reach me and get shot to pieces in the process. What I didn't anticipate was the Tyranid player holding his ground and sniping my vehicles with Hive Guard and picking away at my army, earning him KPs whilst I tried to punch holes through lot's of cover saves to compensate. I lost.

 

What I'm saying is pick your deployment zone carefully. You need fire lanes and the capacity to lead the game in 40k, forcing opponents to play out of their game plan is what wins many games. It all starts in deployment, which is doubly the case against Tyranids.

[DarkGuard]

This is a good point Idaho. Remember, a lot of Tyranid units have move through cover. Many of the smaller creatures have it as standard, and the MCs have it for being a MC. This means they can get through cover quickly. However, only two units have assault grenades, the Carnifex with frag spines and the Lictor. This means that most units will be I1 if charging through cover, use this to your advantage. Do be careful of lash whips though, they make models in base contact I1, and remember that when you react to a charge you have to get your models into base contact if they can get there, no holding back. The models which have lash whips are on big bases, to a 10 man Tactical squad will easily all be in base contact with a 3-5 man Warrior squad, meaning you all strike at the same time. Simple thing, shoot those units.

[LardO'Blood]

Take tactical squads with missile launchers and power fists, a librarian, sternguard and some sort of missile delivery system (TML, CML, ML on tacs, ML on devs etc.).

All my experience against the big bugs points to this, and if you include all these elements you will be successful. But that might just be the noncreativity of the people I play.

[ninjaturtlethug]

One unit that hasn't been mentioned yet is scouts with sniper rifles. They are my preferred troop choice against nids. They wound all MC's on a 4, and rend. Unless it's annihilation I'll combat squad them, this way if they get assaulted by a group of genestealers or MC, they will die, leaving his unit open to fire the next turn by the 5 scouts he didn't kill. For only 10 points you can upgrade one to have a heavy bolter, which can fire a blast template that wounds on a 2+, including MC's.

 

Chaplain Cassius is made to face nids, he's toughness 6 so MC's wound him on a 4, and genestealers on a 6, he has FNP, and a combi-flamer with hellfire rounds to wound MC's on a 2+, (don't forget it's master crafted.) I usually pack him in a rhino or razorback with sternguard and go MC hunting.

 

Round this out with some typhoon landspeeders, which can send two krak missile's that will wound on a 2+ and ignore the armor of most MC's, or shoot frag missile's with bolter fire to take down some horde, whatever you need at the time. their range and speed is pretty survivable against nids.

 

Another one of my favorites are ironclad, or assault cannon/heavy flamer dreads, they get to keep their front AV when in close combat with nids.

 

"Edited with updated tactics"

 

Lastly, I wouldn't recommend TH/SS terminators, the land raider is easily destryoed by MC's, and genestealers can down them with the weight of the dice rolls they cause.

[E. Severus]

Yep... Al that.

The list I usually play with fits perfectly against nids. I tickle my opponent from afar, behind,... Nothing is as funny as slowing down an agressive nid player. The only problem I have are: genestealers! Damn outflank! My board is usually not big enough to avoid being ripped apart by massive rending attacks. A cheap assault squad with some flamers tend to work in that case (but not always).

Units that also do against nids:

Dreadnoughts (flamer/assault cannon or a more cheesy one: apoc edition siege dreadnought)

Flamer/ Missile launcher squads, at least 3 I think, the more the better

A cheap TFC

A scout squad with snipers, 4+ against MC, Rending against a hive tyrant for example

Libbie with nul-zone and 5+ invul.

Maybe a sternguard squad with combi-flamers, when nidz get closer, they get deadlier. But that could just be me (I always run at least 20 fully packed sternies)

Sometimes, when I have some points&heavy support slot left, an automated weapons battery with heavy bolters could work to (45 points for 3 TL HB's!)