yperihitikos Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Is there any use for them in a grey knight list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 As a single model he's a very destructive force. He has the ability for about 9 S5 high I lightning claw attacks, hitting near enough everything on 3s. He's also rather durable as often there won't be anything left to kill him! However, the trouble is getting him into combat. He's a single model unit without IC, meaning he can't join units or be joined. He has no special deployment options, although I think he does have fleet. He can't take a DT, so you'll have to use another squad's DT, or stick him in a Land Raider or Storm Raven, which is expensive. The Vindicare at least operates at range, the Callidus can deep strike, while the Culexus can be difficult to shot at. But when that guy hits the enemy lines, they'll know about it. Give him a try and see if you can get him to work, could be fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2821331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl00d bath76 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Personaly i would give him a transport so buy a transport to a unit which wont need one and you can then solve this big problem. However you have to be selective with targets as he is quite brittle to multiple attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2821529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 He's a good counter-assault unit you can loiter out of LoS near by a prime target your opponent will just want to take. He's good to deploy as far foward as you can during normal deployment, again out of LoS, so that he can move/fleet/assault into an enemy unit that needs tar pitting. In the old days (pre-5th ed codex), it was a good tactic to run him behind a transport (ie, Land Raider), and have him assault whatever got close to your PAGK that didn't get chewed up by stormbolter fire (you never assaulted with PAGK if the odds weren't in your favor). All three tactics still work in the current edition, and a fourth tactic of having him ride in a transport on his own was added in this edition. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2821583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperious Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've used him to good effect before by giving him scout with the Grand Strategy and out flanking him. Killed two daemon princes and a squad of plague marines sitting on an objective once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2821778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've tried him out a few times, but he didn't perform all That well, so I replaced him with a psyrifle Dreadnought, which suits my army better. I do like him though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2821959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yperihitikos Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Is it better to take him in a foot list or a mech one? It seems that the more models to hide him behind the longer he will last. Would it be a waste of points to use him just to attack immobilized vehicles? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2822201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 He's a good counter-assault unit you can loiter out of LoS near by a prime target your opponent will just want to take. He's good to deploy as far foward as you can during normal deployment, again out of LoS, so that he can move/fleet/assault into an enemy unit that needs tar pitting. In the old days (pre-5th ed codex), it was a good tactic to run him behind a transport (ie, Land Raider), and have him assault whatever got close to your PAGK that didn't get chewed up by stormbolter fire (you never assaulted with PAGK if the odds weren't in your favor). All three tactics still work in the current edition, and a fourth tactic of having him ride in a transport on his own was added in this edition. SJ This entire post is money, right here. Off-the-cuff I'd probably use him as a counter-assault unit (the first recommendation) if only because that's how I've successfully used specialist melee units (vanguard, Mephiston) in the past. I will be running one of these some day, but he's very very low on the assembly & painting docket (I still have to select a model to convert for him; not a fan of the GW assassin models in general). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2822207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I just ordered the mini today. I plan to use him as a counter attack unit that disrupts the opponent's game plan. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2822605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I use a Malcadon Spyer from Nercomunda as an Eversor (and a Jakara as a Callidus, Orrus as an Inqisitor/maybe a Vindicare, Yeld as a henchman/Vindicare) from my old hive gang. Love the models; got to use them somehow. :tu: SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2822629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I use a Malcadon Spyer from Nercomunda as an Eversor (and a Jakara as a Callidus, Orrus as an Inqisitor/maybe a Vindicare, Yeld as a henchman/Vindicare) from my old hive gang. Love the models; got to use them somehow. :P SJ Interesting. I'll take a look at those. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2823091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I really don't see the point of a CC orientated 'sin (with really no other special rules) in a GK list that can perform just as well in CC. Especially as he *still* doesn't have any 'nades... Edit: It would be different, I suppose, if we had other options to Infiltrate. But we don't. He would be good as part of an infiltrating force, but you just can't support him in such a role. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I really don't see the point of a CC orientated 'sin (with really no other special rules) in a GK list that can perform just as well in CC. Especially as he *still* doesn't have any 'nades... He does have frag grenades and Melta bombs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've messed around with pairing the Eversor with a Dreadnougt and deploying them out of a Raven. the other guy ca shoot the assassin or shoot the dread. Generaly one dies and the other violates the enemy in ways too gruesome to print in a family newspaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Edit: It would be different, I suppose, if we had other options to Infiltrate. But we don't. He would be good as part of an infiltrating force, but you just can't support him in such a role. :/ You absolutely can support him in such a role- Mordrak, Interceptors and a PTDK can be as far advanced on the board as the Eversor or further in turn 1. Edit: Not to mention flat-out Ravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperious Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Edit: It would be different, I suppose, if we had other options to Infiltrate. But we don't. He would be good as part of an infiltrating force, but you just can't support him in such a role. :/ You absolutely can support him in such a role- Mordrak, Interceptors and a PTDK can be as far advanced on the board as the Eversor or further in turn 1. Edit: Not to mention flat-out Ravens. I like that idea! Mordrak and a unit of ghost knights with a Librarian, supported by an infiltrating eversor, and maybe scouting interceptors... Quick Robin, to the army builder!! Ah right. He can't infiltrate any more... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You wouldn't even need the Interceptors to be Scouts- they have an effective 36" shooting range, plus 6" for each player's deployment zones = 48". They can threaten a large portion of the table on turn 1 just with their regular move and an effective deployment. Failing that, 30" shunt move for the win. Honestly, the "turn 1 Grey Knights" army build has become something of an obsession of mine. I started with Mordrak and a Libby supported by Interceptors/PTDK, bounced along a couple other items, and the idea I'm working on now is a Libby in a Stormraven with Henchmen, just to be able to stuff a Mystic in there to enhance The Summoning (and support the Stormraven with Interceptors and PTDK's.) An infiltrating Eversor would also work well in those lists. The caution is that you need to have turn 1, or you're leaving the Eversor hanging out to dry, at the not-so-tender mercies of your opponent's entire army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 He does have frag grenades and Melta bombs. LoL! Missed that. :D Still, it doesn't stop him being outclassed by an equivalent amount of GK, that can also shoot as well as CC just as well as him. Now if WS8 meatn he hit better than 3+, it might be different. But as a single mini unit, with no ablative wounds and really a poor save, he's far too fragile. You absolutely can support him in such a role- Mordrak, Interceptors and a PTDK can be as far advanced on the board as the Eversor or further in turn 1. And if you go second? He's all on his lonesome. But that's moot, as I also missed he no longer has infiltrate. he's utterly /meh. I'd rather have 6+ DCA instead. Edit: Doh! Too slow! The caution is that you need to have turn 1, or you're leaving the Eversor hanging out to dry, at the not-so-tender mercies of your opponent's entire army. Yup. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Point! The only Assassin that has Infiltrate is the Vindicare. Also, good point about the DCA- you can bring 7 of them and their Inquisitor for the cost of the Eversor. Edit: For comparison, if you get really lucky and roll a 6, the Eversor on the charge gets 11 armor-ignoring attacks at S5 I8, rerolling wounds. The DCA's get 28 attacks that also ignore armor at S4 I6, and have more than 3x the ablative wounds, 4x if you count the Inquisitor in there. ... Yeah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 S5 if you bump the Inquisitor to be a Psycher with Hammerhand. :rolleyes: I just really don't see the point in the Eversor. He just doesn't bring anything, 'special', to the table. He needs to provide a function or roll that other units can't cover. And generic CC monster just isn't good enough. Hell, the Cally isn't worth using and she's got her no scatter with AP2 deployment and an AP1 Flamer. The Culuxes is a potential, if you want to squeeze everything possible out of his animus speculum, but then again it's just a low AP shot, that if push comes to shove, well just buy some Melta/Plasma gun warriors/servitors and go nuts. Really, the only Assassin with a unique enough role to get table presence is the Vindicare. Becuase of his awesomely buffed Ammo (and the reroll a BS8 gives). It's a shame, but just part of the bad internal balance and design of the 'dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2824994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I feel like we went over a lot of this in the Callidus thread, but I should be used to this, right? Vanguard and all. The Eversor's advantages over a PAGK squad, as I see them: Single model, single 25mm base. Like the Callidus, it means he's relatively easy to hide completely from LOS and can Move-Through-Cover/Fleet his way through some tight gaps with no coherency issues to concern him. Four attacks standing still, five to ten if he charges (which he definitely should, considering Move Through Cover and Fleet); S5 with no psychic test required and re-roll to wound (lit claw). Single model means it's harder for the enemy to bring a lot of attacks against him in the obnoxious and awkward places he can assail them; off hand I can think of a half dozen common terrain pieces at the clubs I've played at where models will be snugly in cover in there and would have a hard time bringing more than half of their compliment into grips with a single model assailant...whom would gleefully eviscerate them all. Single model means he's an easy addition to an in-progress assault that he arrives late to; tangle up their insta-gibbing models with your warding stave(s) and let the Eversor chew the unit grunts up. Move Through Cover and Fleet make him highly mobile; he'd be epic behind-your-lines/home base support and would be a very interesting pairing with a Dread on a Storm Raven. His AP2 pistol is nice, but not a perk that strikes me as dazzling; likely he'll kill one model on his charge in, but I bet a unit of PAGK would kill a few more with storm bolter fire on their charge in. This is the kind of model that I'd have tagging along with a unit of PAGK, hiding in their transport or behind it; I think I'd enjoy having him engage a unit on his own or plowing in with the GK. I actually like the Callidus better as her deployment fits my style better, but I can see this guy working out. I've played more than a few games leaving Mephiston in Reserves for base defense. While his lack of a 12" move is hampering in that regard, Psychic Communion does help bring him on when you want him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2825171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 S5 if you bump the Inquisitor to be a Psycher with Hammerhand. :) Not to mention the fact that most Inquisitors who run with DCA take Rad grenades too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2825292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Single model means it's harder for the enemy to bring a lot of attacks against him in the obnoxious and awkward places he can assail them; off hand I can think of a half dozen common terrain pieces at the clubs I've played at where models will be snugly in cover in there and would have a hard time bringing more than half of their compliment into grips with a single model assailant...whom would gleefully eviscerate them all. This is really the one point I'm 100% with you on, Thade. (For once we're not in complete agreement! :) ) This situation happened to me with, strangely, a Dreadknight. A mob of Boyz charged him but only had about 6 models in range to attack, so he chewed off the back end of the squad at a steady clip of 6 models a turn (3 wounds, 3 No Retreat) My issue is that I can bring an upgraded Inquisitor (Hammerhand, Rad Grenades) and 4 DCA's with 5 points to spare (IIRC) versus the Eversor. Their potential combat performance is much greater than the Eversor's. Like Gentleman said, "generic CC monster just isn't good enough." Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying I'll never take him or that I think he's useless. What it will take for me to bring him is 1) spare points, 2) spare Elites slot and 3) an appropriate army list to field him with. The first two are in short supply in a GK army though, so if I bring him at all it will be very rare. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2825646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Frag grenades anyone? DCA says no. The inquis is one of those awkward HQ slots Plus without fleeting he has an amazing pistol shot - 2+(4+), 2+, AP2. Not an amazing bonus but it's pretty much 1 extra attack against a unit in cover (shameless plug of frags again) Could you see an assassin mad coteaz list work? coteaz Callidus Eversor Vindicare DCA units in tranpos Dread or a Crowe/Purifier/Assassin list? Crowe Callidus Eversor Culexus Purifier in mech? Dreads? I can see the non IC status of the Crowe one putting a chunk of tight Assault. Especially with them all mech hugging the rear end of the razorbacks. The Culexus could put out 9-16 shots. Plus the callidus AP1 template and the eversor pistol. That's a lot of close range low AP fire for those MeQ and Fnp forces that GK lack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2825751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Frag grenades anyone? DCA says no. Easy fix: don't be a goofball and assault your DCA into units in cover- use the regular Grey Knights in the list for that, or just shoot that unit down. :P Edit: I mean, heck, if you want to use that line of logic, where one failing is enough to disqualify a unit, then the Eversor discussion was over a long time ago :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234284-eversor-assassin/#findComment-2825759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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