Max GK power?

[Deathlok33]

Couldn't you bring Crowe that has Hammerhand and Furious Charge?

[Souba]

crowe cant join squads nor does he grant furious charge, the enemy gets it if hes charging crowe.

[Deathlok33]

Wow, holy crap I read that wrong...what a terribad unit. lol

[thade]

Crowe makes Purifiers Troops; they had to balance him out some how. :cuss

[Deathlok33]

They didnt screw with Draigo tho...seems hella dumb haha.

[breng77]

Yeah, I think everyone does that with Crowe at first. I saw him and was like wow, I get FC, reroll hits, Purifiers as troops and a second guy with Cleansing flame all for 150 pts!!!, then I read it again and was like oh my enemy gets FC and Rerolls..., oh he's not an IC, wow in most cases he is really terrible (Though he is kind of nice against hordes if you pop cleansing flame and then just reroll all your saves)

[thade]

Yep. It's happening in me. I can feel it. I'm going to paint up Crowe and field him WITHOUT A SINGLE PURIFIER IN MY LIST.

 

I'll read over him carefully tonight and start a thread analyzing this use of him. You can flame me in there, when the time comes.

 

Back on topic: if you use this unit (two GK Librarians and Paladins) and then charge Crowe in an opposing GK force the unit will get FC and Rerolls against poor Crowe. B)

[breng77]

LOL...

 

They didnt screw with Draigo tho...seems hella dumb haha.

 

except they kinda did as he is nearly twice as much as Crowe, and his troops cost more than twice as much, and any transport for said units costs about 4 times as much. Purifiers (as far as GKs go) are the most points efficient unit in the book, they pay 4 points for +1 attack, fearless, +1 LD and a better psychic power then Strike squads. Then they also pay less for upgraded force weapons, and they can take more special shooting weapons at the same cost. IF Crowe were actually good, I think nearly every GK list would be Purifiers (I mean just look at how many people spam henchmen due to Cotaez being cheap and awesome, honestly if they wanted to balance the henchman arm they should have either made him more expensive or put the henchmen as troops on one of the other inquisition special characters who both cost more and are not nearly as good for their points) Now I think they kind of went overboard with Crowe, giving him negative abilitites + no independent character, but I think that part of that is Fluff based as he has the Horrible, no good, very bad Daemon sword, so no one else can come near or they would be corrupted, and it helps his opponents because it is pissed off.

[nurglez]

Personally I think Draigo is costed fine, He can take a hammering, and yes while his troops cost 55 points base, they are ws 5 2 wound terminators.

 

Purifiers are just expensive marines :rolleyes:

 

anyways, back to the main topic.

 

At 2000 points I have draigo, a libby and 10 paladins normally formed up together, with these guys its str 8 (9 for draigo) and +2d6 armour penetration, totally kills things dead. First time I tried out might I went up vs a kan wall, and lost a squad right near the start (the combat squad with 4 psycannons). At the end of the game one of my squads had chewed up a bunch of killa kan's and 2 dreads, thanks to str 6 +2d6.

 

Of course, using tech marine's you can go up to str 10, but if things are toughness 5 or higher and not immune to instant death, probably easier to force weapon them, and if they are immune, you dont need str 10, just 2 str more then their toughness.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'll read over him carefully tonight and start a thread analyzing this use of him.

 

Gonna be a very short thread!

 

1: Engage a Horde and use CF and reroll your saves.

2: Run up to a Titan (or other super nasty/expensive equivalent) and die to HS them.

3: Nick another units transport.

 

/thread

 

:rolleyes:

[breng77]

You forgot, take him to get tons of purifiers then hide him out of site so he does not give up a kill point.

[Angelis Mortis]

Yep. It's happening in me. I can feel it. I'm going to paint up Crowe and field him WITHOUT A SINGLE PURIFIER IN MY LIST.

 

I'll read over him carefully tonight and start a thread analyzing this use of him. You can flame me in there, when the time comes.

 

Back on topic: if you use this unit (two GK Librarians and Paladins) and then charge Crowe in an opposing GK force the unit will get FC and Rerolls against poor Crowe. :)

 

I played a game with Crowe against Eldar the other day. Crowe is much under-rated. He single handed took out 10 Dire Avengers in melee without taking any wounds. He had taken a wound earlier to ranged fire and wound up dying from 3x War Walker with twin Scatter Lasers. 12 wounds he saved every one except the last one. The whole Crowe tax and claims that he sux is pure internet garbage. He is bad ass.

[Souba]

its not that crowe is under rated. it is more like there are better options as HQ than him, OX inquisitors, grandmaster, libby for example.he simply pales to those guys and what they offer

[breng77]

Him taking out 10 Dire Avengers is really not all that great don't they cost about the same as him? Any model can do well Crowe's issue is his ability to consistently perform well. The only time I have faced him he killed Zero models and died in his first combat.

[thade]

You guys are jumping the gun on that thread I'm prepping. ;) Save some fire. <3

[Angelis Mortis]

its not that crowe is under rated. it is more like there are better options as HQ than him, OX inquisitors, grandmaster, libby for example.he simply pales to those guys and what they offer

 

I won't disagree with that.

[Angelis Mortis]

Him taking out 10 Dire Avengers is really not all that great don't they cost about the same as him? Any model can do well Crowe's issue is his ability to consistently perform well. The only time I have faced him he killed Zero models and died in his first combat.

 

See you missed my point though. He took out the Dire Avengers in melee without taking a single wound. He was only killed by massed ranged fire (and even then he made most of his saves). The point I was making was in melee, he is pretty darn good. I wouldn't toss him in the same boat as Draigo (of course, nobody is in the same boat as Draigo, just a monster) but he is definitely above average. Substantially.

[Souba]

as it was said before 10 dire avengers are not really close combatants. with one attack each, out of 10 attacks only 5 hit, out of them only 1.7 wounds come through. making a 2+ save isnt hard at all there. comparing that crowe costs more than those guys. if it would be some boys for that points worth or anything with a powerweapon he would be "good". the dire avenger example however seriously lacks....

[Angelis Mortis]

as it was said before 10 dire avengers are not really close combatants. with one attack each, out of 10 attacks only 5 hit, out of them only 1.7 wounds come through. making a 2+ save isnt hard at all there. comparing that crowe costs more than those guys. if it would be some boys for that points worth or anything with a powerweapon he would be "good". the dire avenger example however seriously lacks....

 

I disagree totally. Its 10:1 one odds and that in itself is a feat for a 2 wound Character. Granted they aren't Howling Banshees but they stood a decent chance of doing at least one wound. Instead, they were literally mowed down in two turns with less than average dice rolls. That does mean something.

[Gentlemanloser]

A 40 point Termie would stand a chance of doing that as well, for far less points. :D

 

It would be a near certainty for a 5 man Purifier (with Halberd) Squad to wipe them in a turn, and they're cheaper! :D

[breng77]

Odds of DAs Wounding Crowe

 

So combat starts against the DAs and Crowe pops off Cleansing flame, this results in 5 wounds Lets say 2 guys die (it is 2.5 but for our example I'll give the Eldar Player the benefit.).

 

Assuming Crowe Charged he swings first (lets say he was in BTB with 4 guys) He hits on 3s with a re-roll, on average he kills 2 more guys (4 dead). The 6 remaining guys swing 3 hit 1 wounds he gets a 2 + save, so 1/6th of the time he should take a wound in this combat. The DA lose by 4 and take LD on a 4, crowe is likely to catch them and run them down.

 

A single 26 point purifier with a Halberd is almost as likely to achieve the same outcome (gets the same cleansing flame kills, + 1 kill from the halberd) The 7 DA swing 7 times hit say 4, wound 1.1 times, which will be saved 1/3 times. (so half as likely) for 1/6th of the points

 

See you missed my point though. He took out the Dire Avengers in melee without taking a single wound. He was only killed by massed ranged fire (and even then he made most of his saves). The point I was making was in melee, he is pretty darn good. I wouldn't toss him in the same boat as Draigo (of course, nobody is in the same boat as Draigo, just a monster) but he is definitely above average. Substantially.

 

Odds say that he will die to 2-3 shots from S8+ Ap2 or better weapons, not sure why I would bother torrenting him. What it comes down to is that he can do OK, but you have to go out of your way for him to do it.

[Angelis Mortis]

See how easy that was? First people are talking about how horrible Crowe is, then after an example of him actually being a pretty decent character, people are so determined to nay say him that no matter what example you put up the argument changes to "well no duh, because Crowe is way better than them". Which was my entire point to begin with. Too easy.

[thade]

See how easy that was? First people are talking about how horrible Unit X is, then after an example of Unit X actually being a pretty decent unit, people are so determined to nay say it that no matter what example you put up the argument changes to "well no duh, because Unit X is way better than them". Which was my entire point to begin with. Too easy.

See how with just a few small changes, your evaluation here basically spells out what's wrong with the vast majority of knee-jerk unit analyses on WH sites? Well done, sir.

 

1v1 math-hammered vacuum analyses are the bane of the game. Units are seldom without support, seldom fail to synergize with other elements in their army, and very very rarely are completely useless. Just because a unit isn't a "fire-and-forget" solution doesn't mean it's crap. It may not be easy or obvious, but I bet you if you really press yourself you can find a way to leverage some use out of those really weird units in the codex.

 

That very thing is what really makes this game fun for me.

[Angelis Mortis]

See how easy that was? First people are talking about how horrible Unit X is, then after an example of Unit X actually being a pretty decent unit, people are so determined to nay say it that no matter what example you put up the argument changes to "well no duh, because Unit X is way better than them". Which was my entire point to begin with. Too easy.

See how with just a few small changes, your evaluation here basically spells out what's wrong with the vast majority of knee-jerk unit analyses on WH sites? Well done, sir.

 

1v1 math-hammered vacuum analyses are the bane of the game. Units are seldom without support, seldom fail to synergize with other elements in their army, and very very rarely are completely useless. Just because a unit isn't a "fire-and-forget" solution doesn't mean it's crap. It may not be easy or obvious, but I bet you if you really press yourself you can find a way to leverage some use out of those really weird units in the codex.

 

That very thing is what really makes this game fun for me.

 

 

Agreed. I tend to like lists that are made of units thought to be underpowered. It is indeed fun to win with them. Crowe IMHO, performed admirably and I have no qualms of taking him again. I was pleasantly surprised and my opponent was kind of taken aback. Hence the massed fire. :lol:

[thade]

I was pleasantly surprised and my opponent was kind of taken aback.

That's what I'm in it for. :)