SeanyPrawny Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Nasty when you have a battle leader with SotH, combi melta and powerfist(or whatever you prefer) with 2 fen wolves attached to a unit of 10 fully tooled scouts with an attached combi melta, powerfist (or w/e) wolf guard. SOLD! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2826858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Rod, response was not directed at you btw, but no clue customer reps from GW. Yea. It is a little mini deathsar unit Sean. The only problem is that a bad roll could put you on he otherside of thhe board from an already advancing enemy. So much for all that bling when they end up footslogging for two turns and then wiped out by fire when they finally get close enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2826997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Thats not too big a deal for me as I have a rhino, razorback and predator prowling up either side of the board so they will be covering one pack eitherway. The only thing i had odd in my list was my hq as he'd add too much weight to one side. Now ita fine :) also i get to make a newconversion ad call him blackwing :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 You don't do it because it's guaranteed to work every time; you do it because it's fun, and something only us Wolves can do. You do it because you've got a cool character with a Saga and a storied history of hunting down and ambushing enemy forces. I've done it several times with my Wolf Priest, Halfdan the Black, attached to a large Wolf Scout pack geared for close combat. It has been well worth it every time, including when I've chosen to just deploy the unit on the table, instead of going Behind Enemy Lines. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The rules are vague at best if you ask me. I dont use hunter wgbl in combo with obel scouts just to be on the safe side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Then you are short changing your options. The rule is clear if actually read because it is clear that the Wolf Scout UNIT can OBEL, not Wolf Scouts. Plus the FAQ supports the option as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 See my previous post in this thread, it's the only one that's explained the UNIT clarification in this thread so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Conversions done now so the ruling had better not change. Went with powerweapons in place of powerfists and plasma pistols for devastastator hunting. 12 melta bombs a melta and 2 combi meltas shoult take care of tanks. Looking forward to using this in an apoc game on wednesday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2827929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Reps name was Daniel Doyle. Like I said, I don't agree with his ruling but I was glad that he took the time to respond and speak to me about it. I hope they can resolve this one day with an official FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2828028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Reps name was Daniel Doyle. Like I said, I don't agree with his ruling but I was glad that he took the time to respond and speak to me about it. I hope they can resolve this one day with an official FAQ. Well it was pointed out how he didn't even know the rules and you still accept his faux ruling. Can lead a horse to wter but can't make him drink I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2828164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 OBEL is not a universal special rule, so Wolf Scouts do not lose it when joined by an IC. Scout however is a USR and Wolf Scouts would lose it when joined by an IC APART FROM the FAQ hasbeen released which states Scouts and a character with SotB CAN Outflank. As OBEL is a unit specific rule no different to Litanies of Hate for example which affect 'the unit', it still remains valid and is not negated by the inclusion of other ICs. Which means when the unit Outflanks, which it can as allowed by the FAQ, you may use OBEL. There you go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2828257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ya after reflecting on our conversation and talking to a buddy I don't think I will follow what he said since A) it's not official and :D the arguments here for the ability to work, which, reflect my own beliefs make more sense. I appreciate all the positive input from the Rout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2828291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ya after reflecting on our conversation and talking to a buddy I don't think I will follow what he said since A) it's not official and :D the arguments here for the ability to work, which, reflect my own beliefs make more sense. I appreciate all the positive input from the Rout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2828292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 After reading the Universiel Speciel rules section in the BRB (Page 74) it seams to me that the Scout unit loses there "Infliltrate" and "Scout" rule then a IC with out them is joining them. Saga of the hunter, conferres "Abillity to Outflank" to the IC and not "Scout" or "Infiltrate" If the Wolf Scout unit don't have "Scout" or "Infiltrate" it neder has the abillty to outflank and therefor can't use the OBEL rule. Sorry to drag this up again, but on careful reading of the rules, I think this is the rules as written. I don't think it's the rules as intended, but the fact that SotH doesn't give the IC either of the same special rules (despite giving them the outflank ability) then Scout and Infiltrate are lost when that IC joins the Wolf Scouts. And is it "Scout" or "Scouts"... there seems to be a discrepancy between the codex and rulebook... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2831246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Wolf Scouts lose Scout but do not lose outflank. Scout is a USR and outflank is a special movement. Just originally having the Scout USR confers the special outflank move. That special move is not taken away when an IC joins as it has already been conferred before the IC joined and is not a USR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2831250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Wolf Scouts lose Scout but do not lose outflank. Scout is a USR and outflank is a special movement. Just originally having the Scout USR confers the special outflank move. That special move is not taken away when an IC joins as it has already been conferred before the IC joined and is not a USR. Gromdangit!!! OK, so it's the "when" they lose the special rule that's the key. In all seriousness, you have this worked out, this much is clear. Could I ask you, on behalf of all SW players here, to type out a proper rationale referencing the correct rules (page numbers and so on) to wave in the faces of our opponents when my SpecOps team brings a 6 pack of whuppazz in behind their heavy support choices? :) I mean in order for us to get this clear in our heads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2831266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Wolf Scouts lose Scout but do not lose outflank. Scout is a USR and outflank is a special movement. Just originally having the Scout USR confers the special outflank move. That special move is not taken away when an IC joins as it has already been conferred before the IC joined and is not a USR. Gromdangit!!! OK, so it's the "when" they lose the special rule that's the key. In all seriousness, you have this worked out, this much is clear. Could I ask you, on behalf of all SW players here, to type out a proper rationale referencing the correct rules (page numbers and so on) to wave in the faces of our opponents when my SpecOps team brings a 6 pack of whuppazz in behind their heavy support choices? :P I mean in order for us to get this clear in our heads? There are two arguments that are against and IC with Saga of the Hunter being able to OBEL with Wolf Scouts. 1. Wolf Scouts lose Scouts when they are joined by an IC because it is a USR and has an * by it. Since they lose Scouts, they also lose outflank. This is false because outflank is conferred to the Wolf Scouts by the USR before the IC with Saga of the Hunter is ever joined to the Wolf Scouts. Yes the USR is lost per the rules, however outflank is not as it is not a USR and was already conferred to the Wlf Scouts prior to the IC joining the unit. 2. An IC cannot OBEL with Wolf Scouts because it is a Wolf Scout special rule that does not extend to IC that join the unit. This is false because OBEL is only a special way that the Wolf Scout unit utilizes outflank, that if joined by an IC with Saga of the Hunter, becomes part of the Wolf Scout unit for all intents and purposes except close combat where he fights as his own unit. The only requirements to OBEL is bein able to outflank and be part of the Wolf Scout unit. The IC with Saga of the Hunter fulfills both of those requirements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2831519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks Ramses :( much appreciated :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/234507-saga-of-the-hunter-work-with-obel-yet/page/2/#findComment-2831627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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